My OS brothers...I am at a crossroads. Help me out.

[JBH3]

Re: My OS brothers...I am at a crossroads. Help me out.

I wasn't talking about you, but rather the people who come in here trying to pick apart someone else's post by bringing up something either totally irrelevant or that's already been addressed six times.

It's frustrating when you're engaged in an intelligent discussion with people - as I think we have been - and other people jump in to argue or generalize someone else's posts without actually reading or understanding what people are talking about.

Not only is it frustrating to have to either ignore those posts or repeat yourself again and again to respond, but it's disrespectful to try to argue with someone without even listening to or trying to understand their point of view.

Again, not talking about any specific poster, and especially not you because I've enjoyed this discussion.

Well since you didn't specify who you were directing that to then...?

As for the thread...I read the posts on the first page, and responded from what the OP said from there.

I've enjoyed this discussion (you included as well), but I didn't really like what was said...under the impression that it was directed at people who had posted after my initial post...but no harm no foul...let bygones be bygones.

I'm a different kid of guy I guess. I dont give a damn about the divorce rate being high. As much as I know, you only get one life so if you are unhappy with it, you should change whats making you unhappy. There are multiple ways to change things but in this scenario, if he's talked to his girl about her weight and she is unwilling to work to lose it...then he should move on. I'm not the type of person who believes that people should suffer because they made a vow or out of loyalty.

Staying in this relationship increases the chances that he will cheat. It increases the chances that he will become abusive in someway (verbally or emotionally). My theory is that when you consider marrying someone you should be able to say "I can be happy with this person right now as they are even if they dont ever change for the better." So many people i know get married and say "I'm gonna marry her and then we will work on her losing the weight" or "Once I marry him, he will stop cheating". And every single time the woman doesnt lose any weight and the guy doesnt stop cheating.

While I understand what you say in the first paragraph, where does it stop? You say:

"I'm not the type of person who believes that people should suffer because they made a vow or out of loyalty."

Although there is no solemn vow in this case, no marriage vows, when does someone start to apply this in their life?

Always looking out for yourself will of course make you happy...however...happy...and lonely.

What about till death do us part? Although these vows have not been spoken, the OP has thought about marriage, and likely will speak them at some point. So what if the same situation arises, in another relationship, AFTER they're married?

If the person, not the person's physical appearance, is worth the struggle it might take to work with losing the weight etc. than leaving them is not the answer...I gather that this person his since the OP has explored the thought of marrying her.

As much as he has invested time w/ her, she has w/ him. So it's selfish IMO to just leave someone for otherwise shallow reasons.

[JBH3]

Re: My OS brothers...I am at a crossroads. Help me out.

Yeah...I'm not even saying divorce her (or whatever), but if you don't want to have sex with your wife because she's let herself go then you have issues with your relationship. Letting yourself go is different than "changing over time due to getting old"...

Kudos to you guys willing to never have sex again, I just couldn't do that...

For me...I never said I could, and the idea IMO of letting yourself go and changing due to time are one in the same. Both affect your appearance, and leave either spouse "disgusted" by the other.

Why do older men seek out younger women when their wife by all account is "aging well" shall we say? One in the same IMO.

Basically...if the PERSON is worthy of consideration to be your one and only then you should be ever willing and ready to work through these problems of appearance.

Whether it's exercising with her, helping her cope w/ whatever is causing her to eat, identifying a physical condition not allowing her to lose weight or the cause of her weight gain. Something along those lines.

Personally...I think we are too strung out on appearance in our society. Be it Hollywood, or pressures to dress a certain way because THIS means you're professional when in reality you are just an incompetent imbocile in a suit...yea...

Appearance isn't all it's cracked up to be, especially if the person outweighs that appearance (no pun intended).

[DC]

Re: My OS brothers...I am at a crossroads. Help me out.

The person's physical appearance/makeup is PART of the person though JHB. I don't understand why a person's insides seem to be more valued than their outsides? The physical, mental, emotional, spiritual. ALL of those things make a woman what she is. If she is consistently losing ground in ONE of those departments, then she is NO LONGER the woman that you married.

You say selfish reasons, but part of a SPECIAL relationship is making sure BOTH parties are happy. Why is HE the selfish one because he is unhappy with HER letting herself go. Why isn't she the one being labeled selfish? So because he doesn't like what she has BECOME, he is wrong for not wanting to be with her anymore? That isn't fair JHB.

JHB, let me ask you this. Name all scenarios in which a man should leave his wife. In your opinion.

[mgoblue]

Re: My OS brothers...I am at a crossroads. Help me out.

For me...I never said I could, and the idea IMO of letting yourself go and changing due to time are one in the same. Both affect your appearance, and leave either spouse "disgusted" by the other.

Why do older men seek out younger women when their wife by all account is "aging well" shall we say? One in the same IMO.

Basically...if the PERSON is worthy of consideration to be your one and only then you should be ever willing and ready to work through these problems of appearance.

Whether it's exercising with her, helping her cope w/ whatever is causing her to eat, identifying a physical condition not allowing her to lose weight or the cause of her weight gain. Something along those lines.

Personally...I think we are too strung out on appearance in our society. Be it Hollywood, pressures to dress a certain way means you're professional when in reality you are just an incompetent imbocile in a suit...yea. Appearance isn't all it's cracked up to be, especially if the person outweighs that appearance.

I agree with everything you've said...I just think some in the thread were implying that you just suck it up and ignore it because you're married and love her...I disagree with that, I think you have to address the issue and find a good solution that makes everyone happy...Ignoring something (not being sexually attracted to your partner) is the worst thing to do, then it festers and ends up being a huge issue causing resentment and that's tougher to fix at that point.

[TheLetterZ]

Re: My OS brothers...I am at a crossroads. Help me out.

Right, we all kind of agree about that.

The only issues brought up in this thread that I can't agree with at all are the ideas that:

(1) He's a horrible human being for being upset his partner gained weight.

(1a.) Appearance isn't important at all.

(2) This is all his fault and his partner is totally innocent in this situation.

[JBH3]

Re: My OS brothers...I am at a crossroads. Help me out.

The person's physical appearance/makeup is PART of the person though JBH. I don't understand why a person's insides seem to be more valued than their outsides? The physical, mental, emotional, spiritual. ALL of those things make a woman what she is. If she is consistently losing ground in ONE of those departments, then she is NO LONGER the woman that you married.

Because at anytime that appearance could change. A fire could wreck that beautiful face, a car accident, the APPEARANCE WILL CHANGE in some way, shape, or form.

If you've built the strength of your relationship, or based it on how SEXY and BEAUTIFUL she is on your arm than what are you left w/ when that is gone?

You say selfish reasons, but part of a SPECIAL relationship is making sure BOTH parties are happy. Why is HE the selfish one because he is unhappy with HER letting herself go. Why isn't she the one being labeled selfish? So because he doesn't like what she has BECOME, he is wrong for not wanting to be with her anymore? That isn't fair JBH.

See below.

JBH, let me ask you this. Name all scenarios in which a man should leave his wife. In your opinion.

When all trust is gone.

You've got to foster everything else.

If your wife's appearance isn't up to par, w/in a reasonable standard of when you met and given her age or after kids, then I think you can address that and do it in a way that respects the other person's feelings.

If you're a cause and/or enabler of her weight gain then you're partly responsible, and if you leave her then you're selfish.

I agree with everything you've said...I just think some in the thread were implying that you just suck it up and ignore it because you're married and love her...I disagree with that, I think you have to address the issue and find a good solution that makes everyone happy...Ignoring something (not being sexually attracted to your partner) is the worst thing to do, then it festers and ends up being a huge issue causing resentment and that's tougher to fix at that point.

Gotcha. I can agree w/ this (bolded).

[aholbert32]

Re: My OS brothers...I am at a crossroads. Help me out.

While I understand what you say in the first paragraph, where does it stop? You say:



Although there is no solemn vow in this case, no marriage vows, when does someone start to apply this in their life?

Always looking out for yourself will of course make you happy...however...happy...and lonely.

What about till death do us part? Although these vows have not been spoken, the OP has thought about marriage, and likely will speak them at some point. So what if the same situation arises, in another relationship, AFTER they're married?

If the person, not the person's physical appearance, is worth the struggle it might take to work with losing the weight etc. than leaving them is not the answer...I gather that this person his since the OP has explored the thought of marrying her.

As much as he has invested time w/ her, she has w/ him. So it's selfish IMO to just leave someone for otherwise shallow reasons.

I dont think being attracted to your significant other is a shallow reason. It may be a little selfish but its my life. Why would I suffer through a relationship/marriage with someone that I'm not physically attracted to? Some people here have this old fashioned view of marriage where you suffer through it no matter what because you made a vow. I (and I think everyone here) understands that marriages ebb and flow but everyone has things that are deal brakers in a relationship. For some people its personality. Some its things that your wife/girlfriend do. Some its physical appearance. If one of those things significantly changes, I can understand someone considering a breakup.

If the situation arises after marriage then you do the same thing that I suggested. You talk to her about it, give her the oppurtunity to lose the weight, work with her on losing and if she is unwilling to lose it, you have to make a tough decision and maybe leave her. I'm not talking about a medical condition that causes and keeps a weight gain. I'm talking about a woman or man who is unwilling to lose weight even though its endangering his/her health and is causing a strain to their relationship.

Maybe I'm different but I like having sex with people I'm physically attracted too. I hope that I can continue to do that deep into a marriage. I dont think its wrong to ask your significant other to stay in decent shape if I'm willing to keep myself in decent shape.

As for lonely, it depends on where you are and options.. I'm a decent looking black man with a job and no kids in DC (where the ratio of successful unmarried black women to men is like 10-1). So its not that hard to meet new women and I'm not that great looking. Now if I lived in N. Dakota, it would be a different story.

[TheLetterZ]

Re: My OS brothers...I am at a crossroads. Help me out.

When all trust is gone.

You've got to foster everything else.

If your wife's appearance isn't up to par, w/in a reasonable standard of when you met and given her age or after kids, then I think you can address that and do it in a way that respects the other person's feelings.

If you're a cause and/or enabler of her weight gain then you're partly responsible, and if you leave her then you're selfish.

I think part of the trust in a relationship is being able to trust your partner to try to take care of your needs, whether those needs are emotional or physical.

The key word there is "try." If your partner refuses to acknowledge your needs, then yes, I think that's a breach of trust.

[JBH3]

Re: My OS brothers...I am at a crossroads. Help me out.

I dont think being attracted to your significant other is a shallow reason. It may be a little selfish but its my life. Why would I suffer through a relationship/marriage with someone that I'm not physically attracted to? Some people here have this old fashioned view of marriage where you suffer through it no matter what because you made a vow. I (and I think everyone here) understands that marriages ebb and flow but everyone has things that are deal brakers in a relationship. For some people its personality. Some its things that your wife/girlfriend do. Some its physical appearance. If one of those things significantly changes, I can understand someone considering a breakup.

If the situation arises after marriage then you do the same thing that I suggested. You talk to her about it, give her the oppurtunity to lose the weight, work with her on losing and if she is unwilling to lose it, you have to make a tough decision and maybe leave her. I'm not talking about a medical condition that causes and keeps a weight gain. I'm talking about a woman or man who is unwilling to lose weight even though its endangering his/her health and is causing a strain to their relationship.

Maybe I'm different but I like having sex with people I'm physically attracted too. I hope that I can continue to do that deep into a marriage. I dont think its wrong to ask your significant other to stay in decent shape if I'm willing to keep myself in decent shape.

I too like to have sex w/ someone I'm physically attracted to. If this is how you feel...honestly.

Then I suggest never having kids. God forbid your wife packs on some pounds while you're still the dapper man she married, and you give her every opp. to lose the weight but essentially have to tell your son/daughter...

"Yea sorry (Timmy/Susie) you don't have a 'normal' family like Bobby does...if your mom wouldn't have gotten fat maybe we would've stayed together".

"Dad why don't you stay over for dinner tonight so we can have a dinner like a real family does".

"Sorry son/daughter, I hate watching your mother eat because it disgusts me, and reminds me of what we could've had, had she not gotten fat. She chews like a billy goat, and eats more than an elephant, but you're welcome to have dinner w/ me...alone...w/o your mother around...because she disgusts me...because she's fat".

Maybe a little much, but yea...if not now than when?

[aholbert32]

Re: My OS brothers...I am at a crossroads. Help me out.

I too like to have sex w/ someone I'm physically attracted to. If this is how you feel...honestly.

Then I suggest never having kids. God forbid your wife packs on some pounds while you're still the dapper man she married, and you give her every opp. to lose the weight but essentially have to tell your son daughter...

"Yea sorry (Timmy/Susie) you don't have a 'normal' family like Bobby does...if your mom wouldn't have gotten fat maybe we would've stayed together".

"Dad why don't you stay over for dinner tonight so we can have a dinner like a real family does".

"Sorry son/daughter, I hate watching your mother eat because it disgusts me, and reminds me of what we could've had, had she not gotten fat. She chews like a billy goat, and eats more than an elephant, but you're welcome to have dinner w/ me...alone...w/o your mother around...because she disgusts me...because she's fat".

Maybe a little much, but yea...if not now than when?

You arent comprehending what I'm saying. If my wife puts on pounds and she exercises and eats less and healthier and still cant lose the weight....then thats a medical condition. I just want to see effort. You said marriage is work...then keeping yourself in shape is part of the work.

[Blzer]

Re: My OS brothers...I am at a crossroads. Help me out.

I dont think being attracted to your significant other is a shallow reason. It may be a little selfish but its my life. Why would I suffer through a relationship/marriage with someone that I'm not physically attracted to? Some people here have this old fashioned view of marriage where you suffer through it no matter what because you made a vow. I (and I think everyone here) understands that marriages ebb and flow but everyone has things that are deal brakers in a relationship. For some people its personality. Some its things that your wife/girlfriend do. Some its physical appearance. If one of those things significantly changes, I can understand someone considering a breakup.

If the situation arises after marriage then you do the same thing that I suggested. You talk to her about it, give her the oppurtunity to lose the weight, work with her on losing and if she is unwilling to lose it, you have to make a tough decision and maybe leave her. I'm not talking about a medical condition that causes and keeps a weight gain. I'm talking about a woman or man who is unwilling to lose weight even though its endangering his/her health and is causing a strain to their relationship.

Maybe I'm different but I like having sex with people I'm physically attracted too. I hope that I can continue to do that deep into a marriage. I dont think its wrong to ask your significant other to stay in decent shape if I'm willing to keep myself in decent shape.

As for lonely, it depends on where you are and options.. I'm a decent looking black man with a job and no kids in DC (where the ratio of successful unmarried black women to men is like 10-1). So its not that hard to meet new women and I'm not that great looking. Now if I lived in N. Dakota, it would be a different story.

^ I agree with the above. As I (and others) have stated earlier, physical attraction is almost always the start of the ice-breaking conversation with a woman whom you would like to get to know on a personable level, and perhaps advance whatever relationship you have with her to a level past simple friendship. I have plenty of friends, girls and guys, good looking and not so much; however, there are only a select few that I see something in them that I would like to continue exploring and see if she attracts me even more so on the inside than she has on the outside.

Like I said before, it's really a packaged deal. Of course there are a lot of attributes that need to flow together for myself, not so I can showcase her but because I am happier. However, there is a line that's drawn where if she's careless about her physical appearance, that is an effect on her personality. It says she promotes carelessness to her everyday repertoire, which could allude to other issues down the road (maybe about her job, her children, or her life).

Then the issue stems to the other's side: how do you handle this? Are your communication and trust levels high enough that you are able to talk to your partner about this issues, that you are truly concerned about it on more than just the reason that you would prefer to be more physically attracted to her like you once were? That sounds shallow on paper, but really it was the basis of initiating a discussion with her in the first place.

It's like if my favorite baseball player was a home run hitter and I liked him because of that, but then I found out he has more tools than just hitting home runs. Well, fast-forward three years later and he has hit his peak but his home run numbers are suddenly declining. He still has the batting average and the defensive abilities that I found out about later, but he's not a power threat anymore. Is it in my will to defend why I still favor him with my every breath just because he was once my favorite player so he still must be? Let's say I knew him personally and could communicate with him, and I found out it was because his workout regimen was not what it once was. If I could, I would wonder what's up and why he has succumbed to lethargy to get by as a player just because he has other tools. I wouldn't simply accept it and still just "let him be" because of what he once was. If age is a factor, I would understand. But in your mid to late twenties, you should only be getting better.

That's a rather extreme analogy and has a lot of holes, but I certainly see the comparisons. As far as I'm concerned, your vow in marriage is supposed to last for eternity, however I feel if you are cheated out of whom you figured you were marrying because of short-term alterations to her lifestyle or physical appearance, then it is unfair to the male individual. I vowed to marry one person and I ended up getting another. Case in point, I'm not going to marry until I have certain guarantees that I fully understand the woman and her intentions, and if in fact something approaches me unexpectedly on her behalf, internal discussions between each other will ensue. If these conditions can't be satisfied, maybe she isn't for me. So to the OP, unfortunately it's going to take some first-hand intervention to make things work out for you, or else you may not get what you hope for. Hopefully she is understanding enough, and more importantly she cares enough about herself.

Threads like these (and the responses in them) is a big reason why I love OS and I keep coming to this site. We can post with respect, intelligence, logic and reason, and we can hear each other's opinions and agree to disagree with a certain level of reverence. Hopefully the OP is ingesting some of these ideas and really taking them to heart, because we're speaking with heart and altruism when we feel that we need to help out one of our own brothers.

Hopefully everything works out for the best.

[JBH3]

Re: My OS brothers...I am at a crossroads. Help me out.

I think part of the trust in a relationship is being able to trust your partner to try to take care of your needs, whether those needs are emotional or physical.

The key word there is "try." If your partner refuses to acknowledge your needs, then yes, I think that's a breach of trust.

I can agree w/ this.

You arent comprehending what I'm saying. If my wife puts on pounds and she exercises and eats less and healthier and still cant lose the weight....then thats a medical condition. I just want to see effort. You said marriage is work...then keeping yourself in shape is part of the work.

I am comprehending...what I'm saying is if it is not a medical condition then what...and if you've got kids...then what.

It's all well in good if it's something beyond her control is what you're saying, but if it isn't and there is a lack of effort on her part, w/ no kids, you're giving her every opp. to get it right before you leave her.

Are you going to do the same even if you have kids? That's when it becomes selfish, because your kids want a mother and father and not a mother and a father who is not around because mom is too fat. Generally speaking.

[Cebby]

Re: My OS brothers...I am at a crossroads. Help me out.

You're wrong. What if dude looks at porn and his girl hates it. Rather than go the way of getting herself to look the way those women do she goes the other way into a depression and 20 gallons of Ben and Jerry's later she's gained 40 lbs.

That's just one hypothetical of many.

So before you act as if you know it all, and assume it's all her fault...STOP!

Or the FAR, FAR more logical assumption that she simply eats too much and exercises too little.

You know, the way 99.9% of fatties put on weight.

There is nobody to blame for anyone getting fat aside from the fatty in question and possibly Method Man.

If we're going to blame him for her eating too much, where does it stop? Are drug users not responsible for their drug use? Are cheaters not responsible for their cheating? Hell, maybe the only reason murders kill people is because somebody said they weren't pretty.

[Whitesox]

Re: My OS brothers...I am at a crossroads. Help me out.

Really. That's unnecessary...your comment.

And as a Mod you shouldn't be trying to ignite the insults. Piss poor on your part. Looking at who has posted in this thread since the point that I entered are all mature and sound individuals given their abilities to critically think and comprehend. Sure...I've gotten into many a heated discussion w/ some (JohnDough, among others), but that's just because of different viewpoints and ideas.

However, never did I feel that any of these persons couldn't comprehend what I was saying...they just didn't see it the same way as I did...and that's ok.

A big problem here is the two camps in this thread reacting as if their party is completely right, and the other party is completely wrong.

When in retrospect both parties have viable concerns/ideas/solutions/what have you... about this situation.

Some have been condemning, some have been supportive, some have been condemning then supportive, and neither is absolutely right or wrong.

All of these reactions can ignite action from the OP as only he knows all the details in this relationship so if a group of people find the litte information he's provided as shallow than maybe he has some self-realization of how shallow he is.

Condemning, in at least that aspect, has a positive effect.

...and guess what I never even took the SATs, and don't if I'd pass that section or not. I do know that I passed the ASVAB, entered in the Marine Corps, had two MOS's in Supply Admin. and finance, and currently work as a GS-11 Financial Analyst without ever having to take the SATs. Hey I probably even make more money than you, and again...never even took the SATs. But guess what...all of that is irrellevant, much like your comment above.

This elitist stuck-up mentality is freaking sickening.

GREAT post.

Or the FAR, FAR more logical assumption that she simply eats too much and exercises too little.

You know, the way 99.9% of fatties put on weight.

There is nobody to blame for anyone getting fat aside from the fatty in question and possibly Method Man.

Eh, I completely disagree. Not to mention 99.9 is a VERY, VERY exaggaterated figure.

[mgoblue]

Re: My OS brothers...I am at a crossroads. Help me out.

I can agree w/ this.



I am comprehending...what I'm saying is if it is not a medical condition then what...and if you've got kids...then what.

It's all well in good if it's something beyond her control is what you're saying, but if it isn't and there is a lack of effort on her part, w/ no kids, you're giving her every opp. to get it right before you leave her.

Are you going to do the same even if you have kids? That's when it becomes selfish, because your kids want a mother and father and not a mother and a father who is not around because mom is too fat. Generally speaking.

IMO, if she's trying to address the issue, and even if it's not working, that effort would be enough to show me she cares...If she turns into some major shrew bitch who doesn't give a crap about what I think, then I'm not sure "staying together for the kids" would provide them a great home environment either...

I'm not a fan of divorce by any means, and I personally think way too many couples see divorce as the easy way out, instead of trying to work through their problems. That being said, I don't think 2 miserable parents make a happy home either.

It's interesting how in the bolded part you assume divorce means the father's not around...That's definitely the stereotype, but doesn't have to be the case if you're man enough to handle your responsibilities.