Anybody else glad that they DON'T have kids?

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Anybody else glad that they DON'T have kids?

I never got the impression that Born was saying his life was better than those who have Kids at all. If anything, I took it as him saying he's glad he doesn't have those responsibilities RIGHT NOW and wasn't mocking those who have that responsibility right now.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Anybody else glad that they DON'T have kids?

Thanks a lot, Jonesy, Pack and NDalum. I'm glad most people are taking my words the way they were intended.

Also, a lot of people with kids have come into this thread and provided some valuable perspective on both sides of the discussion. It's really just the guys coming in and saying "well I LOVES my babies" which is redundant. Yeah, I hope your love your children. Like Chris Rock said, you're SUPPOSED to love your children! Whatchu want a ****ing cookie?!

Loving your children is not antithetical to the sentiments in this thread. I'm pretty sure I'd love my child if I had one. That has nothing to do with being happy with the choice not to.

[NDAlum]

Re: Anybody else glad that they DON'T have kids?

For the record i'm not insulted by anything Born or other have said in this thread at all. We are all going to see it from our own perspective and obviously those perspectives are skewed by our own realities. I could see how some people would be offended though....

I understand, but still nothing was said to get upset over.

I could sit here and be offended by folks practically saying having a child makes your life worth living...but clearly I'm not!

[JBH3]

Re: Anybody else glad that they DON'T have kids?

See here is a big, big difference between yourself and myself. I never spent my time doing that. Even in highschool, I had what my friends call a "laser guided focus" on my goals. As I've gotten older, I've gotten more focused. I could care less about going to a bar and just shooting the **** with people. My work is quality based, skill based, talent based. I have to spend my time honing my craft to a razor sharp edge, and it's been like that since I started working in animation at 19 years old.

So those who have kids do less quality work? Don't understand your whole rant. Plenty of people everyday work an immense workload, have families, are happy w/ their life and decisions to raise a family, don't take one look back on their single life, and are probably in far more technical jobs than animation. All the while being outstanding parents.

The single life I mentioned (bars, clubs, etc) was only the typical life of an American male, is it not? Yours would be atypical?

I'm not glad I don't have kids because that gives me time to screw around. I'm glad because it allows me to swing for the fences when opportunity pitches something my way. I don't have to play conservative on any life decisions, and that's working out really well for me. "Aimless" and "bars" and "partying" and "chilling" are not terms applicable to my life in any way. So if that's what you were doing, then yeah, better to spend your time being a dad.

Having a child hasn't limited me professionally. The only thing having a child has stopped is furthering my education, and it hasn't really "stopped" that, moreso slowed it down. Regardless, didn't need a Bachelor's degree to have made it where I have today (GS-11). My professional development is based solely on the intangibles instilled by the Marine Corps, previous on the job training, and military occupational schools attended as an enlisted Marine.

What is cocky or arrogant? Me being happy with my life choices? I find my existence very, very fulfilling. There's nothing arrogant about that. And yes, seeing people engaged in parenthood reenforces my happiness with my choices. Not sure why that bothers or offends you.

This is cocky/arrogant: "It's just when I see people with children and the way their lives have changed for those children, I'm very very happy that my life hasn't turned into that."

To me its insuiating that you are in a better position than someone because they have kids and you dont. Using "Turned into that" suggests that their life is worse off than yours. Thats arrogant.

This is cocky/arrogant: "but at the same time I do a little touchdown dance in my head when I see the parenthood derail people's life goals."

Again, suggesting that you're better than others. Derail to you could mean the path they wanted to them.

One could say that if someone wasn't responsible enough to use protection and protect what they may have considered a life goal, that they probably wouldn't even have achieved that goal at all.

As I believe USF11 mentioned too, having kids could spell the perfect motivator for someone accelerating their life goals. Bringing a life into this world, and wanting to provide a certain quality of life pushes some to excel to new heights never thought possible. All of my career choices have been driven by the desire to provide better for my family.

Parenthood can and will change people's life goals depending on what the goals are. Any responsibility or obligation can do that. The less obligated you are, the more opportunities there are for you because you have more resources and the freedom to forsake the kind of a stability that a family relies on. Good parents can't make all of the same choices as people without children. That is obvious. The resolution is that if you love your children, you're okay with that.

You're only seeing one-side...because that's all you know. Parenthood accelerated my need to perform to higher levels in my work. To push for new heights. I went from a GS-06 Accounting Tech to a GS-11 Financial Analyst in 5 years. This so I could provide a better quality of life for my family. Based on 2010 Salary + Locality pay for DC/NOVA that's going from making $38K/yr to $62,400/yr in 5 years.

[NDAlum]

Re: Anybody else glad that they DON'T have kids?

Well if you have a kid you better be making more money to offset the costs of that kid!

You have another mouth to feed, butt to wipe, and body to cloth.

I do a little dance when I'm in Target and hear kids crying or screaming and then look in the face of their pissed off parent.

Who would say "I wish that was me!"

He's simply saying that. He isn't downplaying the good they bring to lives, he's focusing on how they would hamper his life.

Isn't that the American way? All we see everyday is a focus on the negative anyways...we're trained to look at things like that!

[l3ulvl]

Re: Anybody else glad that they DON'T have kids?

I see both sides of the argument pretty clearly now. Although I'm incapable of it since I don't have kids...

It's like people telling me how great New York is, and how I can NEVER understand how great and alive the city is without going there. But once I'm there, I have the option to come back home, such is not the case with a kid.

I just have a feeling deep down that people will continue to talk about how enriched their lives have become as a result of parenthood trying to convince me to join the ranks. Once I do they'll all jump out like GOTCHA!!!

[deaduck]

Re: Anybody else glad that they DON'T have kids?

Though the intent of the OP was good in nature for those who understand where he's coming from. the OP further went on to express why and what he does. I can respect that and the same for others. But like I have said before as a parent once you accept your kids as your world. Its hard to see or listen to anyone say different. Explaining being a parent is difficult and yes its cliche' because its an emotion and connect that can really be expressed unless you have kids. Granted there are people who shouldn't have kids and do . I respect you guys because you recognize at this time in your life you are not ready.

See...it's backhanded statements like the bold above that bother me in this.

It's downright condescending to assume that everyone who chooses not to have kids are somehow inferior or unprepared for what is at it's core a biological action that has deep heriditary roots.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Anybody else glad that they DON'T have kids?

See...it's backhanded statements like the bold above that bother me in this.

It's downright condescending to assume that everyone who chooses not to have kids are somehow inferior or unprepared for what is at it's core a biological action that has deep heriditary roots.

No matter how often and clearly it is stated that the choice to or not to have children is not a shift in value, people are going to see what they want to. It is not good/bad to have/not have a child. It is simply a choice. You go one way, or the other. It's all about where you want to go as an individual.

I'm done with the back and forth where people are going to see what they want to see. For everyone else discussing the topic in the intended context, I've very much enjoyed people's different perspective, both parents and non-parents.

[JBH3]

Re: Anybody else glad that they DON'T have kids?

Well if you have a kid you better be making more money to offset the costs of that kid! You have another mouth to feed, butt to wipe, and body to cloth.

I was perfectly complacent in my GS-06 accounting job.

Had enough dough for a single man or young married couple, and the thought of furthering my career in the federal govt was really just an afterthought. At the GS-06 level I was utilizing maybe half of my skills as a financial manager, and could get an 8 hour days work for most, done in 4. My job allowed for plenty of "smoking and joking time" while getting paid. It was essentially a cake job, and often times I had the work done and the boss let me go home an hour early, maybe 2 hours early on a Friday....and it was a salaried position.

I had the ability to excel in much higher and more detailed levels of finance w/in DOD, but had no desire to. Having my son accelerated my desire to work at higher levels, involving much greater budgets, and far more opportunity; such as one day working at the Pentagon or HQMC level.

Many men out there never have/feel a desire to accelerate their career for their kids. Their happy in that cake job, only working 4 or 5 hours of an 8 hour workday, and having the rest of the day to shoot the "breeze" w/ others. Thats when marriage problems often occur etc. After all, most marriages fight over money, and not making enough to support a family. Which can either be because of the man being selfish and not wanting to forego his "cake" job for more responsibility (and work-related stress), or not even having the ability/skills to obtain a higher-level position.

Take my father, he has been a UPS driver for 20+ years, and I cannot even begin to count how many times my parents fought over money w/ having 3 kids, 2 car payments, and a mortgage. Wasn't till I got older that I learned my father was offered a position within the more "white-collar" tier of UPS, but declined because he didn't like it. Not because he didn't know how to do it. Because he didn't like it. So he went back to driving trucks, essentially leaving money on the table.

If you get married and have a kid and whatever salary your making on the force isn't cutting it, are you going to do more overtime? Which will give you less time w/ your family. Are you going to look for a higher paying position w/in law enforcement? What would you do...since you're exclaiming "you better make more money to offset the costs." Perhaps some capacity of yourself would want to accelerate your desires of law enforcement into more lucrative positions? Maybe you're lacking the motivation to do such a transition now?

I do a little dance when I'm in Target and hear kids crying or screaming and then look in the face of their pissed off parent. Who would say "I wish that was me!" He's simply saying that. He isn't downplaying the good they bring to lives, he's focusing on how they would hamper his life. Isn't that the American way? All we see everyday is a focus on the negative anyways...we're trained to look at things like that!

No one would want to change places with that parent.

So if that is the bottom of being a parent what is the bottom of being the single guy?

You have a girlfriend so obviously you are not a loner, you want company/companionship in at least that capacity. So its not as if you enjoy your own solitude, which would mean you're not completely happy being by yourself all the time. So I don't want to be you, like you don't want to be that parent at Target. I don't want my happiness contingent upon when my girlfriend has time for me, or when my "friends" are not busy w/ their everyday lives.

The childless OSers are glad to be childless, but unwilling to understand that while they relish in their so-called freedoms forget that we once had that too, and decided it was not good enough and wanted more. While decisions to have kids may add layers of complication to our everyday lives its done so in stride because the end justifies the means. The crying baby at Target will eventually grow into a Born, ND Alum, or someone where somewhere there is a parent proud that their child has become a police officer or is vigilantly following their dreams (no scarcasm).

[JBH3]

Re: Anybody else glad that they DON'T have kids?

No matter how often and clearly it is stated that the choice to or not to have children is not a shift in value, people are going to see what they want to. It is not good/bad to have/not have a child. It is simply a choice. You go one way, or the other. It's all about where you want to go as an individual.

I'm done with the back and forth where people are going to see what they want to see. For everyone else discussing the topic in the intended context, I've very much enjoyed people's different perspective, both parents and non-parents.

I think at this point we are going into completely different directions.

I'm way past whatever point you're trying to make on pg1 about your original thesis of the "societal standard" of which a person's success is measured by. You can be successful, and considered successfull in life being single and childless, married and childless, or w/ children and no marriage.

That is not what I'm talking about. You can be GLAD you don't have kids as well. That's fine. But don't refer to parenthood in some sort of context that invokes it being a burden or less fullfilling than the path you have chosen.

I get the impression that you're knocking down parenthood because "you're flashing your devil horns on your motorcycle", and making statements like this that invoke some sort of superiority complex to your position in life over someone w/ kids.

Like: "Glad I'm not THAT guy", because his kids are acting up in public, as if you're better than him.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Anybody else glad that they DON'T have kids?

Burden and less fulfilling are two different things. In fact, things that are fulfilling tend to be difficult or burdensome. Fulfillment on one end involves sacrifice on the other. It's just about whether or not you find that particular sacrifice to be worthwhile. For instance, right now I'm more than willing to sacrifice my social life for my career. It is easily worthwhile. For some people, they can look at my career and say "I wouldn't make that choice, even though it'd be nice to be working on those projects with those people."

Being a good parent requires a particular kind of self sacrifice. It's ludicrous to state that you can have exactly the same life as a parent as you could if you were not a parent. Just because it's not the same life doesn't mean it's a worse life. I just very, very much prefer my kind of sacrifices.

This is what I've been saying from the very beginning, and most people are getting that. All this bit about me thumbing my nose at parents is in complete defiance of my words. Either you're projecting that, or purposefully taking what other posters have seen to be obvious jokes, and running with it to vilify my perspective.

[JBH3]

Re: Anybody else glad that they DON'T have kids?

Burden and less fulfilling are two different things. In fact, things that are fulfilling tend to be difficult or burdensome. Fulfillment on one end involves sacrifice on the other. It's just about whether or not you find that particular sacrifice to be worthwhile. For instance, right now I'm more than willing to sacrifice my social life for my career. It is easily worthwhile. For some people, they can look at my career and say "I wouldn't make that choice, even though it'd be nice to be working on those projects with those people."

Being a good parent requires a particular kind of self sacrifice. It's ludicrous to state that you can have exactly the same life as a parent as you could if you were not a parent. Just because it's not the same life doesn't mean it's a worse life. I just very, very much prefer my kind of sacrifices.

This is what I've been saying from the very beginning, and most people are getting that. All this bit about me thumbing my nose at parents is in complete defiance of my words. Either you're projecting that, or purposefully taking what other posters have seen to be obvious jokes, and running with it to vilify my perspective.

Ok. Thats fine. Never had a problem w/ that to begin with.

My issues resonated w/ the implying of your current childfree lifestyle being better than my parenthood lifestyle.....because you don't have the stress of raising a kid.....?

With that said, you also don't have the joy either. And the issue many of us were saying was that we take the stress/sacrifice because we enjoy its rewards.

You, Dislimb, and others "cliched" that thought, and couldn't fathom the idea of changing diapers over going out w/ friends or working w/ prominent people w/in your respective industry.

So then the underlying theme was because you can't understand you degrade. "I'm glad I can hop on my motorcycle" blah blah blah, as if that is (1) Something that glorifies your lifestyle to me/others or (2) States the ability of doing this as a reason being childless is better than being a parent. If that was not your intention then avoid the "tongue-in-cheek" statements and/or use your words more carefully. After all, it is only words I can digest, and tone is very misleading on message boards.

[JohnDoe8865]

Re: Anybody else glad that they DON'T have kids?

Bless all you good parents out there. I get it. They change you and all that. Hey, the human race has to reproduce to continue, so good job on you.

But anyone else over the age of 25 ever wake up and just think "DAMN I'm glad I don't have kids!"

Amen and I agree wholeheartedly. I'm 28, almost 29 and I love kids, but I have no desire to try and raise a child. Especially in this completely corrupted world that we all live in these days. I don't know how you men out there do it but you all have my respect if you do.

[The GIGGAS]

Re: Anybody else glad that they DON'T have kids?

Amen and I agree wholeheartedly. I'm 28, almost 29 and I love kids, but I have no desire to try and raise a child. Especially in this completely corrupted world that we all live in these days. I don't know how you men out there do it but you all have my respect if you do.

Corruption ain't new.

[JBH3]

Re: Anybody else glad that they DON'T have kids?

Corruption ain't new.

As if raising kids during the black plaque or great frontier were any easier.

2010 Challenges: Securing a financial future for your family. H1N1 virus (what a pandemic -- scarcasm).

1846 US Western Pioneer challenges: Trying to not get killed by Indians and/or wildlife.

1348-1350: Trying not to become a statistic of the Black Death.

The average family knows where their next meal is coming from today. A hundred to 200 years ago, maybe not so much. I'll take having to step up my moneymaking game over fending for my life versus territorial indian tribes and hungry wolves any day of the week.

Our media has fear mongered us into thinking the world TODAY is worse than it was back then.