How Would You Differentiate How QBs Play in Madden 23 and Beyond

[canes21]

Following the ratings reveals for the QBs in Madden 23, OS user canes21 started a thread...

Written By: Chase Becotte

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[jyod21]

Re: How do you think EA could better differentiate QB play?

Vision cone, but it didn’t seem to be loved it’s first time around.

[Hooe]

Re: How do you think EA could better differentiate QB play?

I lightly alluded to this in the EA Sports College Football expectations thread, but I would love to see Tiburon add more game mechanics around the mental side of quarterback play. There are a few areas which are dramatically under-represented right now which could stand to see a refresh: play calling, snap count, pre-snap adjustments, and ability to make post-snap reads.

A smattering of ideas to this end:

- Gate the current audible system behind the AWR rating and adjust the play call system in turn. Adjust the current play call system to require two calls in the huddle; a primary play call and a Kill / Can play call. By default, a quarterback (user-controlled or not) would only have the option to swap between the default play call and the Kill / Can play call at the line. Ideally, this system would also support formation shifts built into the primary play call. An example play call might be Zebra (11 personnel) Gun Empty Y-Trips Rt (original formation) Shift To Gun Y-Trips Rt (shift call), Y-Stick (called play) Can Zone Read (Kill play). Higher-AWR QBs would be afforded access to more audibles, similar to what functionality exists now.

- Add game mechanics around the idea of snap counts; in addition to a play call, you also call a snap count in the huddle. Add Superstar abilities around snap counts; "Commanding Voice" prevents offensive false starts, "Hard Count" increases defensive offsides penalties, "Megaphone" prevents audibles and pre-snap adjustment calls from failing during road games, etc. etc.

- Add the idea of offensive system verbiage into the game, with certain benefits and drawbacks of each system. Give each system benefits and drawbacks. For example, an Erhardt-Perkins offensive system might require an extremely high-AWR players across the board to run, but a QB in this system would have the power to call whatever route combinations he wants at the line of scrimmage with simple keywords. This is what Tom Brady did in New England for two decades. His Pro Reads Zone ability could be subsequently adjusted to automatically call a beater route combination for whatever coverage concept the defense calls, as opposed to merely highlighting the first open receiver.

- Apply a tag to quarterbacks who spent their time in college playing in simplified offensive systems and limit their ability to make certain throws on pass plays. For example, one of the main knocks on Panthers rookie passer Matt Corral was that he played in an RPO-heavy system which did not ask him to perform full-field reads. Add a tag to him which, while his AWR is below a certain threshold, hides the passing icons for all non-backfield receivers on the side of the formation opposite the primary route, and (if they are still in the game) prevents him from calling motion or hot routes to any receiver on that side of the formation. Once his AWR progresses above whatever threshold value is set, the tag is removed and the passing icons on the backside of the play no longer disappear. (This limiting of QB vision would be a more authentic solution for limited QB vision than the old Vision Cone, which I have stated many many times was terrible and IMO it should stay buried and dead).

- Dump hot routes entirely. Do not allow users to draw plays in the dirt at the line of scrimmage.

[Broncos86]

Re: How do you think EA could better differentiate QB play?

Tie awareness to how many routes a QB can throw to and the adjustments that can be made at the line. It makes no sense that a QB with a 50 AWR can effectively be put into the hands of the player and have 5 routes accessible and readable and every audible the player wants.

Make low awareness QBs have less options on the field. A rookie QB with low awareness will be lucky to get through more than 2 progressions. This would make designating the primary WR important on the field and it would simulate a low AWR QB effectively "staring down" his WR. Maybe he goes to his 2nd progression, and lucky if he has a third.

Then, make audibles limited. You shouldn't have the entire playbook at your fingertips at the line as a rookie QB. Limit which audibles are accessible and limit that audible to ONE. No changing the play 3 times at the line.

Lastly, implement a rating for how well the QB understands the playbook and tie it to Awareness. A rookie QB may not have the entire playbook available on week 1. Awareness can tie into how quickly a QB can learn the system. This can also be true for a QB who is traded. That QB might be traded in week 6 and shouldn't know the whole playbook in week 7. Perhaps the QB's knowledge is tied to the type of playbook (West Coast, etc) to account for a QB being more familiar with some systems than others. This could also play a factor in drafting a QB who played in a Run / Gun offense will take longer to digest a more pro style.

[Detroit Tigers]

Re: How do you think EA could better differentiate QB play?

I think QB differentiation isn’t any kind of problem per se. There are enough ratings, skills and traits with enough tangible effects to see and feel. They’re on the right track there already imo.

What I want is way more unique cadences and way more unique throwing motions, especially as it relates to incoming rookies. There’s only so much you can do with QBs, just like there’s only so much you can do with pitchers in MLBTS. They need better-quality, more-unique throwing-motions and better hand/ball physics when the throw comes out of the hand.

Like, make them move, throw and sound ****in’ sweet for once. That will go a lot farther than people think, I bet.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: How do you think EA could better differentiate QB play?

If they want to differentiate QBs, they should start with the mean value theorem.


😂 just kidding


What makes QBs different in real life? First of all, accuracy. They already are doing a decent job with that.

Next, it’s vision. I don’t think a vision cone is the solution to that, because it’s ugly. I think a better solution is what amounts to an INVISIBLE vision cone. Have a mechanic where you can rotate your feet to have you face a third of the field, and when you do this you get an accuracy boost. It will take a split second more time, but if you don’t do it, your pass might be more inaccurate. But the great QBs? They’ll have no need for that.

After that, there isn’t much more you can do other than get gimmicky with hiding routes. But I think these two things could be enough.

[Therebelyell626]

Re: How do you think EA could better differentiate QB play?

Vision cone, but it didn’t seem to be loved it’s first time around.

I actually liked the vision cone when it first came out. What I remember most about it was Peyton manning a cone took up an entire half of the field lol.

I remember QB’s had signature throwing styles. They had throws that looked like how they really threw in real life. Some were slow and some were super quick. Tony Romo had one that I remember looked really good, as well as one for John Elway. I know they still technically have signature throw styles in the game, but they all look super generic and most qb’s just have generic 1

[jfsolo]

Re: How do you think EA could better differentiate QB play?

People on OS are outliers IMO in terms of being able to User a QB who is under an 80 OVR and win 10-17 games every season. Normal players(I'm in this group) don't need all these extra handicaps to struggle with lower rated QBs.

Everything here being mentioned is realistic and I wouldn't be opposed to any of them being in the game, but I'm not sure that the Dev team wants to make things that much more difficult for the average player.

[Mattanite]

Re: How do you think EA could better differentiate QB play?

Bring back the Offensive Scheme tag for each player that used to be in the game which comes with a set of personal throwing zone tendency % (low, medium, high, outside left, inside, outside right, backfield = 10 zones). CPU QBs are more likely to throw preferred zone routes even if slightly more covered than more open routes in less preferred zones (would need an under the hood recognition system for balancing open-slightly covered-covered-doubled vs tendency/preference).

When a QB signs with a team their personal scheme tendency combines with a team offensive scheme tendency map. So a matching scheme cpu QB will "look" at a lot more routes that fit the scheme and other player archetypes (e.g. Spread QB looking at even more backfield and short outside throws in a Spread Scheme to a Receiving HB).

A mismatch could result in a wider range of thrown areas that might not always fit the WR archetypes (Vertical Power Run QB throwing it deep more in a Spread scheme where Playmaker WR look to get open short but not great deep, ignores the Receiving HB more or vice versa, a Spread QB throwing it down a lot to a poor catch Power HB in a Vertical Power system).

Scheme match or mismatch could also then trigger scenarios where a disgruntled WR wants more short routes or a Receiving HB wants more catches, Power HB wants to scheme more runs and less catches.

[EccentricMeat]

Re: How do you think EA could better differentiate QB play?

I lightly alluded to this in the EA Sports College Football expectations thread, but I would love to see Tiburon add more game mechanics around the mental side of quarterback play. There are a few areas which are dramatically under-represented right now which could stand to see a refresh: play calling, snap count, pre-snap adjustments, and ability to make post-snap reads.

A smattering of ideas to this end:

- Gate the current audible system behind the AWR rating and adjust the play call system in turn. Adjust the current play call system to require two calls in the huddle; a primary play call and a Kill / Can play call. By default, a quarterback (user-controlled or not) would only have the option to swap between the default play call and the Kill / Can play call at the line. Ideally, this system would also support formation shifts built into the primary play call. An example play call might be Zebra (11 personnel) Gun Empty Y-Trips Rt (original formation) Shift To Gun Y-Trips Rt (shift call), Y-Stick (called play) Can Zone Read (Kill play). Higher-AWR QBs would be afforded access to more audibles, similar to what functionality exists now.

- Add game mechanics around the idea of snap counts; in addition to a play call, you also call a snap count in the huddle. Add Superstar abilities around snap counts; "Commanding Voice" prevents offensive false starts, "Hard Count" increases defensive offsides penalties, "Megaphone" prevents audibles and pre-snap adjustment calls from failing during road games, etc. etc.

- Add the idea of offensive system verbiage into the game, with certain benefits and drawbacks of each system. Give each system benefits and drawbacks. For example, an Erhardt-Perkins offensive system might require an extremely high-AWR players across the board to run, but a QB in this system would have the power to call whatever route combinations he wants at the line of scrimmage with simple keywords. This is what Tom Brady did in New England for two decades. His Pro Reads Zone ability could be subsequently adjusted to automatically call a beater route combination for whatever coverage concept the defense calls, as opposed to merely highlighting the first open receiver.

- Apply a tag to quarterbacks who spent their time in college playing in simplified offensive systems and limit their ability to make certain throws on pass plays. For example, one of the main knocks on Panthers rookie passer Matt Corral was that he played in an RPO-heavy system which did not ask him to perform full-field reads. Add a tag to him which, while his AWR is below a certain threshold, hides the passing icons for all non-backfield receivers on the side of the formation opposite the primary route, and (if they are still in the game) prevents him from calling motion or hot routes to any receiver on that side of the formation. Once his AWR progresses above whatever threshold value is set, the tag is removed and the passing icons on the backside of the play no longer disappear. (This limiting of QB vision would be a more authentic solution for limited QB vision than the old Vision Cone, which I have stated many many times was terrible and IMO it should stay buried and dead).

- Dump hot routes entirely. Do not allow users to draw plays in the dirt at the line of scrimmage.

Nailed it. 100% what should be done. But in the world of online "competitive" gaming, I doubt they would ever do it. Maybe they could at least put this in place for offline modes, and an opt-in setting for online leagues/unranked matches?

[Fall_DIFH]

Re: How do you think EA could better differentiate QB play?

The game is over a decade behind NBA2K on player tendencies and that is why the game fails to have individual diversity and they have to hide behind tons of OP abilities.

In 2K you can have two players with the exact same stats and the tendencies will have them acting wildly different. Why can’t we get something as simple as-

Check down frequency
Step up in pocket frequency
Move outside pocket frequency
Scramble frequency
Throw on run frequency


That’s not even scratching the surface, but would differentiate people like Josh Allen from Justin Herbert despite their physical profiles being pretty much identical.

Same for every other position and especially ball carriers where they have their own unique quirks. Physically they could all do the same things at the top level but everyone has their favorite moves.

[ijumpedthegun]

Re: How do you think EA could better differentiate QB play?

I love all the ideas from this thread. I have to say, however, that this is one area where I feel like EA has actually done a decent job in recent years. Adding the different QB release timings, changing the motion for cross-body throws, changing the throw power ratings, and superstar abilities have brought Madden a long way from where it was 3 years ago in styles of QB play.

Still room to grow, but credit where it's due.

[Mattanite]

Re: How do you think EA could better differentiate QB play?

I love all the ideas from this thread. I have to say, however, that this is one area where I feel like EA has actually done a decent job in recent years. Adding the different QB release timings, changing the motion for cross-body throws, changing the throw power ratings, and superstar abilities have brought Madden a long way from where it was 3 years ago in styles of QB play.

Still room to grow, but credit where it's due.

I would love abilities to get tiered and somewhat detached from dev. So say OVR determines slots and attribute gates on certain abilities but you can have bronze tier abilities as a normal dev. And then include an off field ability slot for franchise. That would add a lot more differentiation to the normal dev and star dev QBs.

[Kanobi]

Re: How do you think EA could better differentiate QB play?

The game is over a decade behind NBA2K on player tendencies and that is why the game fails to have individual diversity and they have to hide behind tons of OP abilities.

In 2K you can have two players with the exact same stats and the tendencies will have them acting wildly different. Why can’t we get something as simple as-

Check down frequency
Step up in pocket frequency
Move outside pocket frequency
Scramble frequency
Throw on run frequency


That’s not even scratching the surface, but would differentiate people like Josh Allen from Justin Herbert despite their physical profiles being pretty much identical.

Same for every other position and especially ball carriers where they have their own unique quirks. Physically they could all do the same things at the top level but everyone has their favorite moves.

If there's one player they need to mo-cap for his unique quirks it's NYG WR Kadarius Toney. It's a crime to have a game where he moves like every other receiver/ball carrier.

[GridironGreat]

Re: How do you think EA could better differentiate QB play?

Vision cone, but it didn’t seem to be loved it’s first time around.

I absolutely loved it. The skinnier the cone the better the feature was too, once you kinda had the grasp. I loved using guys like Vick, with skinny cones, and literally look off user defenders by placing the cone away from where I’d eventually throw. The feature got a bad rap.