Next Gen core engine is the same

[The7LiterWizard]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sigma4Life

I think next year's Madden will be a huge improvement over this iteration though. Animations, AI and graphics will improve a ton and be a lot less robotic.

Hope you are right, but this is said every year; annually. Every year.

[FaceMask]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sigma4Life

I agree that EA's Madden team doesn't seem to advance their engine very quickly. The 2K football dev team was definitely more talented based on the evidence we have.

Yes, now that the generation is over I think most can agree that EA/Tiburon is simply not as talented as some other companies when it comes to developing sports games; they had more than enough chances to disprove that and it just didn't happen. And it's hard to dispute it with a straight face when you consider how much smaller in resource and personnel some of these other companies have been with their sports projects, versus the behemoth of resource and personnel EA has at its disposal.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sigma4Life

Give EA credit though, the most important thing you can do is know yourself. They know and accept what they are NOT capable of on a yearly basis and they don't try to bite off more than they can chew.

I think two situations are at play. Internally I think they know what they can and can't do, they have to. But their marketing and interviews tell a much different story. They have a severe problem of over-promising and grossly under-delivering.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sigma4Life

I think next year's Madden will be a huge improvement over this iteration though. Animations, AI and graphics will improve a ton and be a lot less robotic.

I would be more confident about that if it wasn't all supposed to come from a very flawed core they've been working with for the past decade, or if that very same sentiment/hope hadn't already been expressed 9 years in a row already. The things they're not doing now have already been done as early as 2003 by other companies or the old Madden Team from the 128 era. It's impossible to have much faith at this point.

[FaceMask]

Quote: Originally Posted by FlyingFinn

For one, there is no such thing as a game engine.

That was Ian Cummings' concept. I still get a kick out of that. Shame it's not actually true, otherwise every company that produces game development engines would have to stop calling their engines, engines

[FaceMask]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

A ground-up overhaul? Repeat the same mistakes as LG to CG? Nah, I don't think that was the plan.

The plan should've been to produce something quality, not repeat the same mistakes. It can and has been done before. To me, when the only possibility we give them is that if they'd actually done it they would've failed, it signifies just how low we've had to set the bar for them, and it says only negatives about their abilities rather than what they should be doing to produce a high-quality football game.

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

You mention NBA 2k? Playing the game is good, but it's missing a lot of features that a lot of people are passionate about, including me. One look at the 2k forums here and there's threads about being bamboozled, missing features, VC, etc..... similar to the forums of Madden for 06.

NBA 2K is clearly having some issues right now. But Madden 06 was practically unplayable and I'd argue 08 being in that same vein. NBA 2K is having mode issues, but it's not unplayable on the court, but I don't excuse their issues still, they're inexcusable.

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I know you and I differ on Madden 25 NG and that's fine. I agree that NFL football isn't totally represented in all facets, but it's much better than CG for me and I'm not the lone ranger in that area, either.

Sales are on the slide for the 360/PS3 versions of Madden, and they're not going to be good for the PS4/XB1 versions. Most gamers won't be lone rangers as someone else will have and like a game, but there are going to be big groups and small groups and the group for this one is going to be tiny this year, and there will be a struggle for the PS4/XB1 versions of Madden to surpass the sales base for Madden 06 on 360.

[roadman]

^^

Quality is a subjective word, quality to you is one thing, quality to others could mean something else. Not sure what you mean by repeating the same mistakes?? They didn't repeat the same mistakes as 06, did they? Features aren't missing as in 06. 06, as you stated, was an unplayable game.

I'm just going by this site, but the impression thread has been more favorable vs past Madden's and that's saying a lot.

We'll see where this series goes from here. I don't think it's time to get out the shovels, yet.

A lot will be riding in March.

[Bruce LeRoy]

Great thread OP, the core engine remaining the same is the number one reason I don't have much hope for next-gen Madden. I expect them to continue the trend of adding features on top of this broken engine which will result in them not looking or being right, they won't be fully implemented they will me more of an attempt to add rather than fully implemented like most of the new game-play features they add every year. And not to mention this probably means that players models will probably remain the same also.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by FaceMask

It could be said, but it wouldn't make any sense. The major and I mean MAJOR difference is that NBA 2K and The Show are ********* games that define their respective sports and the gaming generations they belong to. Ground-up overhauls for those game were unnecessary. Madden is a game that fails in practically every phase of replicating the sport of football, whether it's just X's and O's or presentation, and is behind not just other sports games, but also behind other football games from the past. Heck, NCAA 14 is a better game than Madden 25 in a number of ways and that game has plenty of its own problems. A ground-up overhaul of Madden was imperative. Tiburon was only able to get away with not doing it because they're literally the only football game in town.

I don't necessarily disagree, but it's not the point.

i think NBA2k14 is starting to show it's age as well as is The Show. 2K really dropped the ball on some major components of the game as well. To call it the shining example of simulating it's sport is deceiving.

Most of this is strictly opinion and still beside the original point that I was responding to.

[Bruce LeRoy]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

You could say the same thing about NBA2k14, and will probably be able to for The Show. What's your point?

The problem is that the current engine used in Madden is broken, it was not built with realistic player movement, physics, momentum, football rules, or realistic/individual player models in mind. The devs for this engine were lazy or just rushed to created this engine because of time contraints or maybe they didn't have the skills to make a better engine. So they chose to create a generic template (making all players do the same thing) rather than a dynamic football engine. This engine is the reason why last gen was a total set back for Madden, why sales are going downward instead of upward, and why the this game is on a three year plan despite having 8 years to develop for it last gen!

NBA 2K already had a very good realistic basketball sim engine, their current success is proves this by becoming the number one NBA basketball game over taking the former NBA basketball giant NBA Live. When you play NBA 2K the players practically move very realistically, the individual players move and play just like they do in real life for the most part, and the game looks and plays like a real NBA game, they didn't need a new engine because they already had the core basics down. Madden on the other hand does not have this luxury, they have a much longer way to go to make their game look like real football, and the current engine aint gonna do it.