Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream, Watch it Here

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by underdog13

Alright so I have a question. In MLB the show there is a similar system where you tell your players what to train. Now why isn't that bashed or not liked like madden? Is it because there are no points involved?

The Show is potential driven. Which is far more realistic than XP driven.
You schedule players to work on certain things. That doesn't guarantee they will improve on those things, or how much.

XP is driven by stats and goals. You reach a goal or stat and you get better. It's the opposite of real life. In real life, you get better at something and your performance goes up.

The Show follows a more realistic path.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by FBall Life

That's what I'm getting at. The problem isn't with the new consoles, it's with their programming code. The consoles are easily powerful enough for 22 player true step. Watch. In two years, they'll finally have it implemented and everyone is going to be asking them "but I thought the consoles weren't powerful enough" lol. They say a feature the community wants just can't be done due to console restraints, then in the next year or two, it's in the game.

The bold is where I keep getting confused, in reference to all-22 player movement, who's claiming the issue has anything to do with a lack of console power or constraints? Again, the way I understand it, it's a legacy frame rate issue with the way Madden is designed, that seemingly didn't get changed or addressed for creating the game for the newest consoles.

I right there with anyone on most issues and even this one, in regard to it's not our problem the design is bad or hasn't been addressed, it's Tiburon's, we want all-22 player movement. Yet I don't equate that to them ignoring the issue, not prioritizing it, them claiming the consoles aren't powerful enough, etc.

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Far be it for me to try to excuse or defend what Tiburon does because ultimately, they're the ones to blame for whatever issues Madden has. That said, I don't really see how in this instance they can be faulted for not prioritizing movement for players, if it's true that they actually added it but had to remove it due to programming issues. I give that claim some credence due to the fact that this isn't the first time a Madden team has stated this type of issue, meaning adding one thing, which unexpectedly effects something else. Specifically with regard to player movement, which I think Ian mentioned some issues with trying to add locomotion to defenders.

If it was another developer, I would agree with you. I hate hearing how madden can't get 22 players to have true step due to developing issues because of this games history. This is the game that had to use 2d sprites because 3d player models weren't possible until game day did it. The game that said interactive sidelines weren't possible all last gen even All Pro Football had it in its one and only attempt. Now with true step, it can't work. However FIFA seems to have it working fine.

When I hear it couldn't be done from the Madden team I can't help but wonder if it could've worked in some other game. It wouldn't be the first time that was the case.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

You seem to be well versed and have a good understanding on programming. What is your (or anyone else's) educated take on FIFA vs Madden locomotion system? Soccer has 22 players on the field simultaneously and so does football. The physical interaction obviously differ between soccer and football. Football has physical contact on every single play. But even during Madden sequences where contact have not been made and are not made, sliding is still present. I have yet to see any players in FIFA slide into position. All FIFA players seem to realistically plant their foot with every move. Anyone have a reasonable educated guess on why FIFA apparently has unadvertised true step applied to all 22 players and Madden does not. Side Note: Unless I'm mistaken, the Ignite engine is suppose to allow EA sports division to extract and "share" elements from one sport to another. Wondering what challenges are preventing the transfer of locomotion/foot plant from FIFA to Madden.

In my layman's opinion it's partly specific issues with how Madden is fundamentally designed and partly Tiburon intentionally not doing things other games have done in Madden.

To the first part, if you read back at old threads when OS members like LBz, Bezo, PGaither, AJ, etc were going down to Tiburon for Community Days, they mention quite a bit about finding out/being told why x couldn't be easily done in Madden, unlike in other games. Also Ian touches on it quite a bit in his post Tiburon interviews. A general theme that seems to come up is Madden is a mass/mess of code with all kinds of things, linked to other things, so doing some of the seemingly simplest things, ie scaling the size of the actual football, can be like doing brain surgery for Madden. For example, those CD guys had been asking about things like tiered play calling and route based passing for years but that's difficult because in Madden the olne/dline are programmed together as a unit, as well as seemingly the receiver/defender/ball. For quite awhile there were even sliders and settings Tiburon didn't want Users accessing in Madden because they claimed they could "break" the game.

So considering that, in addition to the way we can often see a pursuing defender 10-20 yards away from a play still reacting to a ball carrier's evasive moves, sometimes multiple defenders mirroring each others reactions and the dreaded "Conga line" pursuit, it's likely defenders and ball carriers movements are all somehow linked in Madden's "unique" design.

To the second part, I don't think much, if any, of that applies to things outside of game play coding/design, considering areas like presentation, commentary, and career modes are separate teams and have been ripped out, rebuilt, ripped out, rebuilt again, seemingly numerous times. So when I see FIFA's living World, FIFA's multiple commentary teams, HC09's team management, NCAA basketball 10's presentation, etc, more fleshed out than what's currently in Madden, I see those areas as being intentionally designed not to match those other games. No way I believe they couldn't have ripped out Franchise mode from M12 and completely replaced it with a better version of HC09, instead of CCM/CFM. However they decided CCM/CFM was the way they wanted to go, that's not legacy coding issues, imo, that's choosing to offer something else other than what's already been/being done.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

If it was another developer, I would agree with you. I hate hearing how madden can't get 22 players to have true step due to printing issues because of this games history. This is the game that had to use 2d sprites because 3d player models weren't possible until game day did it. The game that said interactive sidelines weren't possible all last gen even All Pro Football had it in its one and only attempt. Now with true step, it can't work. However FIFA seems to have it working fine. When I hear it couldn't be done from the Madden team I can't help but wonder if it could've worked in some other game. It wouldn't be the first time that was the case.

I'm right there with you on that, Tiburon has proven they will tell a flat out lie in a heartbeat, especially in reference to something they can't/won't do and labeling it as an issue with video games in general, not the way Tiburon makes video game. That's why I keep saying I see this case, about all-22 player movement, differently because, according to that post from JPDavis, Clint is specifically blaming Madden frame rate issues, not some external excuse. That's taking ownership, imo and the key part for me is that they added it early on but claim they couldn't get it right. I remember Ian showing us all manner of prerelease stuff, much of which didn't seem to pan out that way in-game, we never got an explanation of why that was but we know the stuff existed, he showed us. Also there are many tales from CD guys about being shown stuff at Tiburon which seemingly never made it into the game, I presume there is some reason for this theme.

Long story short, I understand the opinion that this all-22 player stuff is just another bs excuse, I just don't share that opinion in this case. It's all moot anyway because either they get it addressed or they don't, that's all that matters, I'm just willing to give them until next year in lieu of the seeming candor and straight talk from these guys.

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

Quote: Originally Posted by underdog13

Alright so I have a question. In MLB the show there is a similar system where you tell your players what to train. Now why isn't that bashed or not liked like madden? Is it because there are no points involved?

You cannot be serious? The two systems share one similarity, and that is they are progression systems. In MLB THE SHOW, I'm not able to rack up points and make an F Potential SS into Derek Jeter. I can tell them what I want them to focus on in practice, which allows me to indirectly mold a player to fit my vision, but I can't just turn him into a godly player by racking up base hits, steals and putouts.

In Madden, as an above poster described, I could take a scrambling QB, rack up rushing yards and rushing TDs, and use the experience from that to make him a better passer. Madden's progression system also doesn't allow for backups to progress. Instead what we end up with is All-NFL starters on every team with terrible depth, except the User whom has players with almost 10k more XP points, meaning he has even better starters as well as better depth.

Now lets view that as a bug, or design flaw and look at the system even more meta. Ratings in Madden equal a players ability. A player does not break out unless they have the ability to do so, or the system around them benefits them more than the previous system. In Madden, we expect guys without the ability to break out, to get better because the user forced them to breakout by constantly feeding their stat line. This is even easier to do because of the lack of drops, terrible coverage, robo-accurate quarterbacks, and lack of fatigue. Meaning bad players can play well above their ratings, which creates a snowball effect where playing above your ratings means your ratings should be higher, which means the user can do even better with the player, leading him to play above his ratings even more, leading to further progression.

[DNMHIII]

I'd love to see the bluff blitz feature taken one step further and actually automatically position the player in a blitz look on the field once that action has been initiated and automatically changing his posture to a blitz look at the same time and then they drop back into their assignment. The feature the way it is now does nothing to a pre-snap read.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by DNMHIII

I'd love to see the bluff blitz feature taken one step further and actually automatically position the player in a blitz look on the field once that action has been initiated and automatically changing his posture to a blitz look at the same time and then they drop back into their assignment. The feature the way it is now does nothing to a pre-snap read.

I agree, what you're describing seems like what "show blitz" should be in Madden instead of a how it is now, which basically seems like stacking the box, not showing bltiz, imo. I'm think "bluff blitz" is fine and has merit but having both would be better. Good point and someone should tweet that little nuance to the devs.