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Old 07-22-2014, 12:54 PM   #145
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Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

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Originally Posted by CM Hooe
Already clarified about CFM in a post before yours.

Taking into account height and weight would be fine, sure, but again it misses my original point of how much height and weight matter vs the discrete ratings which are supposed to already tell me how that player performs.

Speaking with my game design hat on, "enough" isn't an adequate descriptor for determining how much strength vs weight should matter. Where's the line?
How about using the real world as an example? A little statistical analysis on players bench press and weight in the real world and do some analysis and quantify the effect from real NFL games to come up with an model equation. We have all kinds of NFL games go draw from.
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:58 PM   #146
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Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

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Originally Posted by Robrain
My answer is dead simple: it's not the job of the people in these forums to program the game for the developers.

As a gamer, I EXPECT a company that's generated over $4 billion in Madden revenue:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/05/tech...ion/madden-25/

To be able to hire programmers that are good at math and are paid to figure those equations out and get the numbers right.
This is where I rest my case.

The previous gameplay designer, Victor Lugo, was also lead of the Infinity Enginr and his interviee blogs and videos would speak on these matters.

That was M13, the I.E was never mentioned again in M25 or M15 as we see it now. I appreciated Vic's education and expert speak on the subject of physics albeit things did not line up as he implied.

I no longer take their word for credence: I just let the product reveal itself. We can argue till we dry in the mouth and our lips turn purple. Reality is: their direction in the studio seldom aligns w a hardcore gamer's expectations.

If only Vic was able to carry out his plans to the peak of their physics engine potential.. alas he is gone now but when he was there his blog revealed the depth of knowledgable members on the team.



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Old 07-22-2014, 12:58 PM   #147
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Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

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Originally Posted by urlacher51
Franchise play interview with Donnie Moore.


I hate it - people get a chance to interview these people and then go soft on the questions...Crappy interview and interviewer......

Get on them about how ratings don't matter, how sliders work or don't work...Why they rate so high? Why they will not take the ratings from a place like FBGamers? Why not implement a mass ratings editor in the game? Why not explain how sliders work, interact and generally effect game, including penalty sliders...


This whole interview was a waste of time to make and listen to...


*** Also, so strength and then a little Pass Block and Run Block are involved in netermining how long a block is held? Yeah, maybe; until you as the RB hit the boost/accelerate button, then every defender breaks their block at the same time.....another madden joke...

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Old 07-22-2014, 01:09 PM   #148
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I agree with most of you with the phyiscal and technical attributes

some of the ratings are way to high such as the 94rbk for robinson

but some are fairly accurate



someone mentioned before at least we don't have a 87 Reggie bush

disappointed CJ Mosley didn't make the cut but being a ravens fan makes me biased so i cant argue with that
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:14 PM   #149
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Blake Bortles!? He is a project to begin with.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:24 PM   #150
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Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

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Originally Posted by bucky60
How about using the real world as an example? A little statistical analysis on players bench press and weight in the real world and do some analysis and quantify the effect from real NFL games to come up with an model equation. We have all kinds of NFL games go draw from.
That's part of why I think displaying the numeric ratings is unnecessary because they should just be calculations that are modified under the hood for given situations. I won't go too much into this because I'll just frustrate myself but the notion of displaying a static x rating seems pointless. I don't know how well it works but the guy making Dynasty Football claims to calculate physics, I don't really understand why Madden can't do something similar under the hood.

OS: Your game is physics based correct? Explain that a little bit. How does this directly effect gameplay?

EK: Instead of using statistics to generate play results I have used physics formulas integrated with player's attributes. I worked with my retired electrical engineer father on these equations, using things like player vectors, collisions, and intercept paths. I'm not exaggerating when I state that this is all from Isaac Newton laws; Dynasty Football could not exist without that guy's genius (and my old man's as well!)
http://www.operationsports.com/featu...eric-kneipfer/

Now I'm not saying that a text based sim is the same thing as playing Madden, what I'm asking is why can't Madden use something similar under the hood to calculate its' outcomes. Couldn't this same concept be used to make physics, namely weight, height/leverage, relevant in Madden or is it not as simple as it seems, for whatever reason?

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Old 07-22-2014, 01:26 PM   #151
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Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

One question that I'm thinking about in the context of this thread and the Twitch stream is: how can Madden accurately represent the dilemma of playing or having to play rookies heavily in their first year, or even the first couple of years?

For example: teams don't generally want to start a rookie at LT. Why? My hunch is that their footwork and handwork need coaching up, as does their understanding of NFL blitz schemes and protection packages.

So how could Madden recreate that reality? And what would it mean/look like to think about the same issues at other positions?
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:26 PM   #152
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Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

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Originally Posted by Robrain
My answer is dead simple: it's not the job of the people in these forums to program the game for the developers.
No, it's not, you are correct. However, that doesn't mean we can't think critically about a problem and attempt to solve it on our own, rather than dismissing the question.

It's my strong opinion that if one's going to discuss why a video game is doing something wrong, one must have an alternate design in mind and be able to discuss it with some level of detail. Hand-waving at the problem and saying "this is bad, devs go fix it" isn't all that constructive, IMO. And no, Madden isn't absolved from this sort of discussion on account of drawing its game mechanics from reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky60
How about using the real world as an example? A little statistical analysis on players bench press and weight in the real world and do some analysis and quantify the effect from real NFL games to come up with an model equation. We have all kinds of NFL games go draw from.
Possibly. Communicating this correlation - strength to weight - to the user is going to be difficult, which is my main concern here. Just putting an equation behind it to govern the relation doesn't communicate to the player why his 90-STR running back isn't running effectively through 350-lb DTs with STR 75 or whatever. On its face, I would expect by 90 STR player to overpower a 75 STR more often than not because, well, 90 is greater than 75 (rocket science! :-P).

Granted, the default ratings in Madden are never set up like that; the OLs and DLs always have much higher STR ratings than any other position. Which in my opinion is a problem, different scales are being used for different position groups, but that's neither here nor there.
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