6/19/16 Madden NFL 17 Rex Dickson INTERVIEW & DETAILS - The Know (12 min 52 sec)

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

I disagree with that. I think we are getting closer to a sim game. We are getting their faster than the game did under Ian or David Ortiz. Its just not as fast as some people here want it to be and thats understandable. Lets be real. They arent going to tear down Madden and recreate it from scratch. I know people at OS tend to look at things solely from a consumer perspective but from a business perspective that would make zero sense. To do that, EA would likely have to increase Madden's budget, hire more developers and QC testers (to ensure that their are no significant bugs with the new code). Now if I was a EA stockholder and I heard at a quarterly meeting that EA's sports division was significantly increasing its budget to remove and rebuild all of the problematic legacy code, I would question that and ask why. If the answer was "A 1/4 (if that) of the buying public doesnt feel that the game simulates football realistically enough"....I would be furious. Especially when Madden 16's sales significantly increased from 15 using the approach that Rex's team is taking. We should never forget that EA is a corporation. A corporation's #1 responsibility is to generate revenue and keep costs low so that its shareholders can see a profit. The best way for EA to do that is to keep doing what they are doing. I'm just happy that Rex in his team are committed to including some sim elements and move the game closer to a sim.

I agree they're getting closer, obviously. Can't say it's any faster than Ian & company as they were coming off Ortiz's reign which was the most arcade IMO.

But our sympathy for EA's finances and shareholders is just another hitch in our wishes and expectations. Here, I'm a potential customer and speak from that point of view. I could care less about their finances and shareholders. That's like me voting against my wishes in a poll because I sympathize with the other side.

Since we're concerned with their finances and shareholders, let's think how it could go, though we know this will never happen. 1/4 of the buying public is unhappy with the game and doesn't purchase it. How would their business do then? How would their shareholders feel about that?

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

I agree they're getting closer, obviously. Can't say it's any faster than Ian & company as they were coming off Ortiz's reign which was the most arcade IMO. But our sympathy for EA's finances and shareholders is just another hitch in our wishes and expectations. Here, I'm a potential customer and speak from that point of view. I could care less about their finances and shareholders. That's like me voting against my wishes in a poll because I sympathize with the other side. Since we're concerned with their finances and shareholders, let's think how it could go, though we know this will never happen. 1/4 of the buying public is unhappy with the game and doesn't purchase it. How would their business do then? How would their shareholders feel about that?

Idk personally it always felt like more than a quarter to me, lol, but that's just me, I'm not saying half, but I think sometimes we under estimate, as well as over estimate "our" voice when it comes to Madden.

I think everyone who plays Madden would like a more realistic looking, and playing game, as long as it is accessible......

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

I agree they're getting closer, obviously. Can't say it's any faster than Ian & company as they were coming off Ortiz's reign which was the most arcade IMO. But our sympathy for EA's finances and shareholders is just another hitch in our wishes and expectations. Here, I'm a potential customer and speak from that point of view. I could care less about their finances and shareholders. That's like me voting against my wishes in a poll because I sympathize with the other side. Since we're concerned with their finances and shareholders, let's think how it could go, though we know this will never happen. 1/4 of the buying public is unhappy with the game and doesn't purchase it. How would their business do then? How would their shareholders feel about that?

Sympathy is the wrong word. I dont feel sorry for EA's stockholders at all.

I'm being realistic. Expecting EA or the Madden to ever remove and rebuild the code that this game is built on isnt realistic for financial reasons. There is nothing wrong with that being a request I guess but I tend to focus on requests that are more realistic.

Even if Rex was 100 percent behind a complete code rebuild...he still has a boss. And that boss has a boss. And that boss has the shareholders and a board to answer too. So its not as easy as Rex making a decision about the direction of the game. In order to pull off what you are requesting, he has to convince the higher ups. An easy way to convince them is to show sales are declining with the arcade approach.

Also the sim community isnt doing a great job of convincing EA that it should take that approach. Sure we post on Twitter and message boards like OS about how the game needs to be more sim and that we are sick of legacy issues...but most of us here STILL BUY THE GAME.

And if i was a shareholder thats all I care about. Thats the problem with your analogy. The numbers dont back it up. The sim community here is consistent in saying that the one of the biggest problems is legacy code and that the game will not meet the sim community's ideal game until that is fixed.

The numbers show that the sim community is still buying the game though. There was a big jump between the sales of 15 and 16. Now some of that is due to more people buying next gen consoles but not all of it. It seems like as a whole the community (even members of the sim community) are happy with the path that the game is taking and are OK with Rex's current approach.

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by SageInfinite

Idk personally it always felt like more than a quarter to me, lol, but that's just me, I'm not saying half, but I think sometimes we under estimate, as well as over estimate "our" voice when it comes to Madden. I think everyone who plays Madden would like a more realistic looking, and playing game, as long as it is accessible......

I think we overestimate it alot. I've never had a discussion with Madden devs about this but I have with NBA 2k and EA UFC devs and the hardcore sim community's size is minuscule compared to the rest of the community.

Now we are one of the most vocal and that helps. I also think that dev team's are starting to realize that even casual fans like games with sim elements in it. Games like the Show are examples of games that can have elements that can be tuned to be hardcore sim or arcade. Taking that approach leads to the entire community being happy with your game.

[TarHeelPhenom]

Quote: Originally Posted by DeuceDouglas

Loved this quote from him. It's good to see that he fully understands how ridiculous and bad of a representation the "Madden Championship" was and I really hope M17 and moving forward does the best they can to completely extinguish as much of that type of play as possible. As long as he's there I don't have many worries about where the direction of gameplay is headed.

Thank youuuuuu! That's all some of us were trying to say on that other thread. I'm so glad that Red recognizes the issues and it left a bad taste in his mouth. Can't ask for more than that.

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Also the sim community isnt doing a great job of convincing EA that it should take that approach. Sure we post on Twitter and message boards like OS about how the game needs to be more sim and that we are sick of legacy issues...but most of us here STILL BUY THE GAME. And if i was a shareholder thats all I care about. Thats the problem with your analogy. The numbers dont back it up. The sim community here is consistent in saying that the one of the biggest problems is legacy code and that the game will not meet the sim community's ideal game until that is fixed. The numbers show that the sim community is still buying the game though.

SPOT ON. That is the biggest problem within the community. People don't have the will power to wait, rent, or buy used. Some people seem like they buy it just to talk about it. The game shows you what it is every year, and with the internet there is plenty of information out for you to make the proper decision. Speak with your wallet, everyone at EA understands that.....

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Sympathy is the wrong word. I dont feel sorry for EA's stockholders at all. I'm being realistic. Expecting EA or the Madden to ever remove and rebuild the code that this game is built on isnt realistic for financial reasons. There is nothing wrong with that being a request I guess but I tend to focus on requests that are more realistic. Even if Rex was 100 percent behind a complete code rebuild...he still has a boss. And that boss has a boss. And that boss has the shareholders and a board to answer too. So its not as easy as Rex making a decision about the direction of the game. In order to pull off what you are requesting, he has to convince the higher ups. An easy way to convince them is to show sales are declining with the arcade approach. Also the sim community isnt doing a great job of convincing EA that it should take that approach. Sure we post on Twitter and message boards like OS about how the game needs to be more sim and that we are sick of legacy issues...but most of us here STILL BUY THE GAME. And if i was a shareholder thats all I care about. Thats the problem with your analogy. The numbers dont back it up. The sim community here is consistent in saying that the one of the biggest problems is legacy code and that the game will not meet the sim community's ideal game until that is fixed. The numbers show that the sim community is still buying the game though. There was a big jump between the sales of 15 and 16. Now some of that is due to more people buying next gen consoles but not all of it. It seems like as a whole the community (even members of the sim community) are happy with the path that the game is taking and are OK with Rex's current approach.

Empathy, concern, appreciate... sympathy is definitely the wrong word.

But folks have the power to make rebuilding the code realistic. However, for many reasons, folks still buy a game they claim to be unhappy with. Needing the fix / no other football options, lack of patience, not understanding their power, EA's superior marketing, EA's great spokesperson, etc. All reasons why I feel a football simulation on par with other top sports video games is a ways off. But hey, maybe next year.

[johnnyg713]

Don't the additions of true gap play, run fits, and pattern matching eliminate a lot of these issues? From what I understand, madden 17 is going to have to be played differently to be succeful.

Maybe I'm not too familiar with these legacy issues. Four verts, toss plays, fb dive, aggressive catch, are plays I'm aware of. I'm just curious what's so game breaking that this team can't fix if/when they take the time to address it.