EA vs. its fans.

[Armor and Sword]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

If HC09 had interactive gameplay, I would agree that FPS was more like HC09. But HC09 missing the interactive gameplay that FPS had is a huge missing piece. And I think it is a shame that we won't see that kind of depth in a console football game. Off topic: So you were a fellow FPS'er? Just Football or there baseball too? Do you remember XOR football? Kind of dating myself.

LOL yeah we are old farts man. Yeah I loved FPS baseball too. Great times with both games. The depth was amazing. I also wish we could get that depth on the console games but IMO we can't. I just don't see that overall as a good business model for the gaming companies to be frank. But I am really enjoying what they are pumping out these days. Sports gaming is almost cult like IMO in this day and age and we are a dying breed. With all the mobile gaming etc....it is becoming a lost art.

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by Armor and Sword

I am not talking about the choices. I am talking about the game itself. We don't control the law suits and the exclusives agreements. No use in crying over that...we don't control it. That is business and if it is allowed...it is allowed. If not vote for different congressman and senators and lobby for more anti trust and anti monopoly regulations. Good luck. IMO we are playing the best possible versions of console sports games for baseball, football, basketball and hockey we have ever had in the history of console sports gaming. I truly feel like each generation (for the exception of last gen for Madden) we have been getting better and better representations of the sports they simulate. Better gameplay, better AI, better graphics (of course), better player models better stat tracking....better everything pretty much. Those that still play and enjoy NHL 94 or Madden 2005 or whatever....good for you. Hell I play Tecmo Super Bowl from time to time (one of the very few old games I can still have fun with). But the new games...wow man. I am having more fun with those than I ever had with past versions. Lot's of nostalgia plays on these boards, but I can't play far older games and get the far more life like game-play on titles like Madden 16, MLB The Show 16, NBA 2K15 and 16 and even the much maligned NHL 16. Heck the tennis game Top Spin 3 was far beyond any tennis game I played before it. FIFA Soccer (while not a fan of soccer or soccer games in general) is crazy good fun compared with FIFA of the Genesis or PS days. Fight Night 4 and Champions...best boxing games I had ever played on a console. My entire point is I think the ultra hyperbole criticism has gone way too far over the last couple of years on sports video games in particular. More and more I see threads and forums just turn into a massive bitching and moaning fests and the actual constructive/useful/helpful feedback get's so lost in the shuffle with all the insane amount of garbage that is posted these days. Unlike non sports games which can have a development cycle of multiple years to develop....these guys are churning out annual sports titles (because they have too as their company demands it as does the public) and delivering IMO a quality product for the most part. Yeah..no game is perfect, some have some bad bugs on release, but that is a product of the short development cycle IMO. Thank god they can patch unlike yesteryear where if it was bugged....that was it. Your stuck with the bug. I am a firm believer in having good constructive criticism being posted here. Without it the games would never improve. And we have a decent number of mature, knowledgeable members who do just that. And I am thankful for them and their contributions as well. I am also thankful the developers still have some rapport with some members here who actually have intelligent idea's and critiques in how to continually improve the game, and they have a genuine interest and respect which goes both ways between members of OS and the developers.

As a Madden gamer, yes I agree we are getting the best overall Madden football experience I've ever played. Taking some of the other football games into consideration outside of Madden, I have to respectfully disagree....

[Big FN Deal]

@Armor and Sword, it's never bothered me that you seem to enjoy Madden, what others like period doesn't phase me, I'm glad for them BUT in your first post ITT you went way beyond that. Just because you like, enjoy or whatever about Madden, doesn't make it a solid football game nor make others expectations unreasonable. Maddens 9-12 didn't meet your expectations, so just because other Maddens since then have, don't act like it's a fact Madden should now be good enough for everyone and they should "take it or leave it". Maybe current Madden feels just as "stale and sterile" to others, as the past Maddens did to you, that you still managed to play 3-4 months. It's not that deep man, you enjoy Madden because it apparently offers enough of a gaming experience for you and others don't because the experience is lacking for them.

To the OP, imo much of this stuff is besides the point and only seems to matter because of the illogical way EA approaches creating Madden. The biggest difference I see in Madden vs other top sports sims, is that they all cater to fans and wants outside of realism to the sport in some fashion but Madden is they only one that makes that a focal point, at the detriment of their stated goal.

To use your presentation example, if presentation is fundamentally created to mimic tv, any gamer that doesn't want that simply needs the options to scale that back as they see fit. Hell that can all even be turned off as a default, allowing the more hardcore options to ramp it up as close to tv broadcast as the game allows. However on the flip side, if presentation is created lacking tv level emulation, anyone wanting that is SOL. The latter is the way Madden is made in a nutshell, on many levels and areas, which makes no sense, imo.

[blueeon03]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dynamite

The real issue, I think, is that there are too many segments to really make happy. The sim audience wants a specific type of game, the online head to head guy wants a specific type of game, the franchise only player wants a specific game, the MUT player wants a specific game...how does one development team make all of these segments happy without sacrificing quality overall? While also managing relationships with strategic partners like Gatorade, Nike, Reebok, etc? While engaging with their licensing partner, the NFL and the 32 franchises within, to get authenticity in the visual presentation of their brands? While also engaging with the NFLPA on likenesses and the retired legends pool on their likenesses? This is a monumental task and a testament to EA's size and scalability that a game even comes out every year. Look inside EA's own building at the NBA to see what happens when those things don't come together. NBA Live hasn't really been close to the lower end of Madden opinions in years. Fact is, I don't think there's an EA vs fans argument to make. It's more accurate to make an EA vs scale of tasks argument. Maybe the answer is to split the properties out...and risk weakening the overall product?

These are all good points and I realize my initial post might come across as dismissive or even downright inflammatory, but I didn't necessarily mean it that way.

You're right about trying to please everyone while trying to maintain some authenticity as well as their overall vision. That can be very difficult, especially given that EA is a publicly traded company beholden to their shareholders. I am pretty sure that there are things they'd love to add to make Madden the perfect game, but either because of legacy code (as someone else mentioned), time constraints because of the yearly cycle, or simply just that not enough manpower, they're not able to.

For me, I'm a franchise guy. I have been since Madden '94. Whether it's coaching or being a player, I want authenticity. This year's addition of the practice squad is pretty big and hopefully gives us more flexibility in terms of roster management that we need. I am trying to remember if last year's version still had injured players count against your total number of roster spaces, whereas in the NFL, they don't. I think it did, but I could be wrong. Here's hoping that gets fixed because it SEEMS like an easy fix.

Ideally, I would love for the coaching mode in their last 2 NCAA games to be transitioned into Madden, because I loved those modes. You could augment the recruiting aspect into scouting rookies. Turn the coach progression into a skill tree the way that game had. I'd like to have the coaching be more personalized, the way that game did, where I feel like I'm improving myself as much as my team.

Make the CFM where you play as yourself be more like the NCAA game's RTG. Have position battles. Have the ability to bypass the draft and try to "walk on" to the practice squad and make the team that way.

Those two things would make me fall in love with Madden again.

I understand the constraints, but I see what Madden could be, from every type of player's perspective, and it's a little frustrating knowing that with a few additions and changes, Madden could be truly great. Then part of me thinks sometimes the business part of it gets in the way, and that's a little sad, but, that's how business is.

[blueeon03]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

To use your presentation example, if presentation is fundamentally created to mimic tv, any gamer that doesn't want that simply needs the options to scale that back as they see fit. Hell that can all even be turned off as a default, allowing the more hardcore options to ramp it up as close to tv broadcast as the game allows. However on the flip side, if presentation is created lacking tv level emulation, anyone wanting that is SOL. The latter is the way Madden is made in a nutshell, on many levels and areas, which makes no sense, imo.

That should be a feature because I would love to turn that off, but I think some of that stuff is used to mask loading screens, or at least the pre-game intros are. Yeah, there's a loading screen before the game, but I think some of that may just be to kind of mask the fact that there's still loading going on.

In NBA2k, I turn off all the after basket camera things or replays because I don't care, and I'm willing to bet most people do too. In MLB: The Show, I turn off all the in menu music and sound clips because the music isn't that great and after hearing the same clips 10 times, it gets grating.

I get that from a developer standpoint, it's a neat idea, but the people playing probably get over it pretty fast, so then in the end, it's just wasted effort.

One of the biggest issues of this is NBA 2K16's mycareer mode. I honestly do not think I've seen anyone talk positively about the Spike Lee thing and I'm honestly not sure what 2k was thinking. Why on earth would I want to play MyCareer essentially as someone else? I want to play MY CAREER, not "Freq's." All the story stuff with your "sister," and your friend was so bad and I think of all the wasted time and money spent on that when that money could have been spent making an overall better experience. As far as I know, they still haven't announced what the mycareer mode will be like this year. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. To me, though, that seems like a bad sign that we're this close to release and still very little or no details about it.

I will probably not buy this year's version if that is still in it, or at the very least, not play mycareer. That right there is a perfect example of a developer's vision clashing with what the fanbase wants. Will they learn? I don't know.

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by blueeon03

That should be a feature because I would love to turn that off, but I think some of that stuff is used to mask loading screens, or at least the pre-game intros are. Yeah, there's a loading screen before the game, but I think some of that may just be to kind of mask the fact that there's still loading going on. In NBA2k, I turn off all the after basket camera things or replays because I don't care, and I'm willing to bet most people do too. In MLB: The Show, I turn off all the in menu music and sound clips because the music isn't that great and after hearing the same clips 10 times, it gets grating. I get that from a developer standpoint, it's a neat idea, but the people playing probably get over it pretty fast, so then in the end, it's just wasted effort.

It's not a wasted effort because there are plenty of people that enjoy that stuff. It adds to the polish and authenticity of your game. Makes it stand out and gives it a wow factor visually.

That's why options are a good thing. I wouldn't want to be forced to play a game like how you described, where it's just the game and no flare or pop....

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Just because you like, enjoy or whatever about Madden, doesn't make it a solid football game nor make others expectations unreasonable.

Similarly, just because you think Madden isn't a "solid" football game and it doesn't meet your personal expectations doesn't actually make that the objective truth either, and your opinion doesn't matter any more or less than the favorable opinion from someone else enjoys the game.

You're free to like it or not like it as you please. Quality is a completely subjective assessment, and different people have different tastes.

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Similarly, just because you think Madden isn't a "solid" football game and it doesn't meet your personal expectations doesn't actually make that the objective truth either, and your opinion doesn't matter any more or less than the favorable opinion from someone else enjoys the game. You're free to like it or not like it as you please. Quality is a completely subjective assessment, and different people have different tastes.

I think you both just said the same thing, lol.....