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ESPN Signs Exclusive Multi-Year Deal with EA To Broadcast Madden eSports Competitions

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Old 01-28-2018, 09:51 PM   #33
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Re: ESPN Signs Exclusive Multi-Year Deal with EA To Broadcast Madden eSports Competit

I enjoy watching the streams of guys on Twitch who are slider testing, and I watch some YouTube guys who do breakdowns of concepts in the playbooks, like NYKia, so I don't think it's super odd that some folks would want to watch other folks play.

I did tune in to this last tournament, and I thought it was a bit sad how the game is reduced to the same basic concepts, but that's been said a bunch, so that's not an atypical reaction.

I did find it funny at one point when Blocky, I think, was going for it on 4th. The announcer was like "I talked to coach Madden and asked him if he coached 5 minute quarter games, wouldn't it be realistic to go for it more on 4th, and he said you'd definitely see lots more of that, so Blocky's strategy is realistic..."

That, to me, is the troubling bit--it's the normalization, or at least the threat of the normalization of game play that's generally pathetic but is relatively common among the tournament types. I don't want to see more of that, but I'm sure that's where it's headed.

Perhaps that's making a mountain out of a molehill, but when I heard that, I cringed.

And yes, I know that going for it on 4th makes sense in lots of particular cases IRL, and I know that some coaches are gutsier than others, so I'm not calling foul on the concept of going for it at all. I'm just wondering if commentary like that is indicative of a way of viewing the game that's bad for my constituency.
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Old 01-29-2018, 12:24 AM   #34
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Re: ESPN Signs Exclusive Multi-Year Deal with EA To Broadcast Madden eSports Competit

First, trying to get 120 offensive plays into an online game is a non-starter on every level, outside of those online CFM's that have grouped players that see this as a priority. The games take way too long and no one has that kind of time to play on a regular basis. That's also why there are so few online CFM's that are active week to week.

MUT games get you about 55-70 offensive plays a game. That's plenty in this environment. Just like we adapt rules to football in other areas, flag football, pick up games, pee wee, and so on, it makes sense to adapt here. And that is enough plays to equate about one half of a game. If you look at it as the second half of a tie game, which is plenty to foster a competitive game.

I've argued over and over on here that Madden is not a sim, has never been a sim, and will probably never be a sim. But it is a great platform for competitive matches based on the sport of football. If it were a board game, no one would complain about the adaptations made to make the game work on that platform. And that's all that is going on here.

As a competitive sport, you play to win the game. In the second half of a tie game, you are going to go for it on 4th down more often, because you have fewer possessions. Now, some of the guys are dumb, and I've seen guys screw themselves, in the Madden Championships, by not executing smart game theory, and going for it when it doesn't make sense. And today, I listened to a segment on the radio about how many NFL coaches need to learn more game theory so that they stop making so many poor decisions down the stretch of a game.

So, yes, if you view that 1st quarter 4th down attempt as though it is really in the 1st quarter, it looks bad. But if you are competing, and understand the conditions, it might make a lot more sense. If things went bad, and you are down 14-0 in the 1st quarter, it's more like late in the third. And if the other guy gets the ball to start the second half, you have one less possession than you would have had.

Of course, that's where some guys screw themselves. Because, while it is only the second half of a game, you have 6 time outs, 2 end of the quarter clock stoppages, 2 two-minute warnings, and a halftime that may swap possessions. You have to consider all of that, too. It's nowhere near as little time as you think, and part of why you get so many plays in despite the short quarter lengths.

Once you wrap your head around that, you begin to realize that while the rules of football are being screwed with, the core essence is still there, and that's what helps you make sense of the changes. Running the ball will seal a win. A strong defense means you can punt and wait to get the ball back.

What Hooe hit on is something I think EA needs to improve on if they want Madden to be TV ready. I need better understanding of what each guy is doing. I want a half time show where the analyst shows the viewer what adjustments guys are making. I need to see replays.

I don't care if the players are using defenses unconventionally, but I want to hear the analyst talk about why. I want learn how to counter what people do online.

It's video game based on a competitive sport. I have no problem with guys that just want to do the paint-by-numbers simulation of what they see on Sundays, tweaking sliders so it looks just right and all results match expectations. There is something zen about it, and I've been there. But it's no different than if I were drawing or painting what I see on Sundays, or working on a plastic model of a perfect tackle. It's worthwhile and interesting.

But it is mind boggling to me that these same guys cannot understand why so many people view sports games as something to play head-to-head, competitively, to the point that they don't care about franchise play.

My first games of Madden was in the 90's while I was in college. And it was six or seven of us hanging out, drinking beers, and playing Madden, where winner gets next. All night long, competing to keep playing. Yeah, I would play some season mode when I got home, but it was playing someone sitting next you on the couch that made Madden rule. And not a single dude wanted to hear about how good your franchise was going.

I know it is the last thing folks in this forum want to hear, but MUT made Madden great again by providing a fanatic way to play the game competitively, with our favorite players. I would rather it be a subscription based mode instead of microtransactions, for sure, but I get that this mode is expensive to produce and run week after week. I don't mind that it costs extra, because it suddenly made playing online against randoms more fun.

What I really hope is that ESPN can improve the understanding of what Madden online is, and elevate the gameplay. I'm excited to see what the future brings. I'm fully aware it might be terrible, too. But that's the risk.

Last edited by JayhawkerStL; 01-29-2018 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 01-29-2018, 01:02 AM   #35
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Re: ESPN Signs Exclusive Multi-Year Deal with EA To Broadcast Madden eSports Competit

My hope is that they improve their tools/tech to the point where gameplay for sim CFM play can be rescued from the all of the compromises that are made for the competitive space.

The pancake bug only came about because of an attempt at punishing H2H players who used pass defenses to stop the run. H2H players ironically hated it but were of course able to adjust so that it wouldn't happen to them, but it messed up the CPU in solo games. I could list a dozen things that are a fouled up for solo play because of trying to balance the game for H2H play. I would like to not have competitive/e-sports wrecking things for those of us who are the majority of the player base.
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Old 01-29-2018, 10:06 AM   #36
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Re: ESPN Signs Exclusive Multi-Year Deal with EA To Broadcast Madden eSports Competit

Jay:

Not all competitive players come from an angle that you are coming from.

You've been there and done that.

Just as much as you assume that sim players can't understand the dynamics of competitive gaming, the reverse is also true. I saw evidence of this last week on Twitter with an exchange with someone that loves competitive gaming and doesn't appreciate the way sim gamers play.

I don't care how someone enjoys their game once they plunk $ down, but I think most here would like our voices to be heard/opinions shared vs what appears to be on the surface a gravationional pull towards listening to the competitive gaming arena.
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Old 01-29-2018, 10:45 AM   #37
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Re: ESPN Signs Exclusive Multi-Year Deal with EA To Broadcast Madden eSports Competit

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Originally Posted by CM Hooe
Eh. My dad still tells me playing video games at all is a waste of time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But he probably sits in front of the tv every night huh.
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Old 01-29-2018, 12:35 PM   #38
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Re: ESPN Signs Exclusive Multi-Year Deal with EA To Broadcast Madden eSports Competit

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Originally Posted by roadman
Jay:

Not all competitive players come from an angle that you are coming from.

You've been there and done that.

Just as much as you assume that sim players can't understand the dynamics of competitive gaming, the reverse is also true. I saw evidence of this last week on Twitter with an exchange with someone that loves competitive gaming and doesn't appreciate the way sim gamers play.

I don't care how someone enjoys their game once they plunk $ down, but I think most here would like our voices to be heard/opinions shared vs what appears to be on the surface a gravationional pull towards listening to the competitive gaming arena.
That goes back to my first post in this thread. People who don't care about MUT and eSports are monopolizing the conversation in a thread about MUT and eSports. If you think this thread helps sim players make their case, I'm telling you that you are wrong.

What I wanted to talk about was how MUT and the Madden Championships are presented on TV. But instead I saw post after post by people that only have the vaguest notion of what competitive Madden is like, bashing it as a mode, as though their voice has not been heard on this forum enough.

I think the Twitter campaign you have been doing is great. It's a really good way to get the views of sim players out there. I don't post in that thread because I can look at the thread and see it is not for me. But just because you got some pushback by a random on Twitter, that doesn't mean you have to be in an all-out war on competitive players. It means someone heard you.

You guys are taking a moment in which members the Madden team are popping champagne and celebrating, in which competitive players are excitedly thinking they may get on TV some day, and just ****ting all over it. Those same devs you are reaching out to on Twitter, and working so hard to be respectful to, also read threads like this.
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Old 01-29-2018, 12:55 PM   #39
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Re: ESPN Signs Exclusive Multi-Year Deal with EA To Broadcast Madden eSports Competit

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Originally Posted by JayhawkerStL
That goes back to my first post in this thread. People who don't care about MUT and eSports are monopolizing the conversation in a thread about MUT and eSports. If you think this thread helps sim players make their case, I'm telling you that you are wrong.

What I wanted to talk about was how MUT and the Madden Championships are presented on TV. But instead I saw post after post by people that only have the vaguest notion of what competitive Madden is like, bashing it as a mode, as though their voice has not been heard on this forum enough.

I think the Twitter campaign you have been doing is great. It's a really good way to get the views of sim players out there. I don't post in that thread because I can look at the thread and see it is not for me. But just because you got some pushback by a random on Twitter, that doesn't mean you have to be in an all-out war on competitive players. It means someone heard you.

You guys are taking a moment in which members the Madden team are popping champagne and celebrating, in which competitive players are excitedly thinking they may get on TV some day, and just ****ting all over it. Those same devs you are reaching out to on Twitter, and working so hard to be respectful to, also read threads like this.
And I would say to all of that is for the most case, this isn't the type of place to generate threads like this or you will get this type of backlash/feedback.

Personally, it doesn't bother me how someone plays the game you bought, you play it the way you want.

There will be people on both sides(here or anywhere) that will express their distaste for "other side." You provided good insight on the competitive side that probably doesn't enter a sim players mind or perspective.

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Old 01-29-2018, 12:56 PM   #40
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Re: ESPN Signs Exclusive Multi-Year Deal with EA To Broadcast Madden eSports Competit

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Originally Posted by CM Hooe
Eh. My dad still tells me playing video games at all is a waste of time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Personally, I don't watch a whole lot of competitive gaming or Twitch streams, but over the past half-decade or so I've probably watched more content from Achievement Hunter and Let's Play - two YouTube comedy channels centered around Rooster Teeth personalities playing video games, often poorly - than I have anything else on cable television (I've been a cord-cutter for years).

Honestly, I've also probably watched far more games being played on AH / LP than I've actually played games recently. There are too many great video games out there and I don't have nearly enough time to play them all, so watching others play a bunch of different games in 30-minute bite-sized chunks is a great way for me to enjoy the games I miss second-hand.

Other than that, different strokes for different folks, that's all.
This is how I feel also. There are tons of games out there I'm never going to play. But I also enjoy watching others play them sometimes to see what the game-play is like. Sometimes it even encourages me to purchase that game and play it. Game companies love the free advertisements for their games. I can guarantee more people are purchasing games thanks to channels/streams.

I had been playing M15 the last few years. Decided to skip 16 and 17, because I wasn't really that pleased with M15 and didn't want to buy another clone of M15. But after watching a bunch of M17 game-play videos last year and seeing all the changes introduced in franchise mode compared to M15 it encouraged me to purchase M18. And I love the improvement in the franchise mode in M18 from M15.

I almost ended up buying M17 last year but decided to wait for M18 since it was already at the end of the season when I was watching those game-play videos of M17.

I think I'd also tune in to competitive Madden more if the analysis was better. Maybe if someone can recommend some Youtube channels of competitive Madden players that you think are good and have fun personalities I would love to check them out.
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