Jump into a Madden game, or stick with 2K5?

[mykelmosinee]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nunyerbiz

I think the general sentiment of "just a roster update" is really more about the core of the game. From a core gameplay perspective, 18 doesn't feel that different from 16 which didn't feel much different from 13 which didn't feel that much different from ... repeat this all the way back to at least 09. It's been the same framework for a decade or more. Things like MUT and Longshot are all fine and good... but they are bells and whistles on the same core game. A core game that lots of fans have never been truly satisfied with. The move from the PS2/XBox generation into PS3/X360 was looked at as a lateral move by many... let alone the most recent move to the latest even more powerful platforms... yet 10 year old bugs and weaknesses still persist in the core gameplay. The CPU still manages the clock like a chimp with a closed head injury. I think many fans, and most that post here, feel the core gameplay has seen mostly stagnation or small incremental improvements for far too long. It's way behind the progress curve compared to it's competition in other sports franchises and other video game genres in general.

This X 1,000. The game never "feels" fresh or different anymore.
I'm sure someone will come back saying "it's football, how much can change?"...the answer is A LOT!
Madden COULD change a lot of things for the better, yet it rarely ever does.
The last "ground breaking change" was CFM, which honestly, I don't remember a single person asking for.
The game needs a lot of work in almost EVERY area. If we're honest, there really isn't any area where we can say EA nailed it, with perhaps the exception of graphics (which while good looking, animations kind of cancel that out once it's in motion).
AI is good awful, line play needs tons of work, penalties are far behind where they should be, the challenge system is horrible, weather is wrong much of the time, wind has crazy effects on kicking (while zero effect on passing), and CFM is a joke compared to other sports games.
EA Tiburon needs to SERIOUSLY step up their game, and stop making excuses as to why things can't be done.
We didn't create the problems with old code piled on old code, they did.
We didn't cut their resources, they did.
And stop wasting time on things that nobody asked for (looking at you, Longshot), fix what you have and add a ton of immersion creating features.
Truly separate the different modes of play (h2h, arcade, and sim) so everyone can enjoy the game, not just those who like tournaments and MUT.
INNOVATE.

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[Shogunreaper]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nunyerbiz

I think the general sentiment of "just a roster update" is really more about the core of the game. From a core gameplay perspective, 18 doesn't feel that different from 16 which didn't feel much different from 13 which didn't feel that much different from ... repeat this all the way back to at least 09. It's been the same framework for a decade or more. Things like MUT and Longshot are all fine and good... but they are bells and whistles on the same core game. A core game that lots of fans have never been truly satisfied with. The move from the PS2/XBox generation into PS3/X360 was looked at as a lateral move by many... let alone the most recent move to the latest even more powerful platforms... yet 10 year old bugs and weaknesses still persist in the core gameplay. The CPU still manages the clock like a chimp with a closed head injury. I think many fans, and most that post here, feel the core gameplay has seen mostly stagnation or small incremental improvements for far too long. It's way behind the progress curve compared to it's competition in other sports franchises and other video game genres in general.

that's definitely true but madden can't really be compared to other sports games as football is in a completely different league in terms of complexity.

[Nunyerbiz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Shogunreaper

that's definitely true but madden can't really be compared to other sports games as football is in a completely different league in terms of complexity.

I can accept that football with as many as 22 separate AI subroutines firing off at every snap is a complex animal... let alone coaching / playcalling AI... let alone the movement characteristics and animations of the player models themselves. My point is that instead of things like MUT and Longshot being touted as advances, it's that core stuff, those 21 AI subroutines, the way the player models move on the field and interact with other player models, the coaching AI... those are the things that need the most attention specifically because they are so complex. Yet we still see problems that have been around for 10-15 years. The additions of things like MUT and Longshot are all fine and dandy, but none of them can ever reach their full potential until those complex core gameplay elements are as near flawless as humanly possible. All the gorgeous motion capture and game modes you can pile onto a DVD instantly lose their luster when a coach can't figure out when to call a timeout or a safety can't seem to notice that WR sitting down in his zone.

[roadman]

I think there are some things people are forgetting as well.

Off the ball injuries and no more Robo CPU QB's anymore are huge, in my book, and that maybe subjective.

I get a different vibe on the OL this year, sorry. I've seen some of the best pockets forming from the User vs Cpu games I am playing.

Also, some of the best QB play that I've noticed coming from Madden.

No more 150 lb CB's taking down Eddie Lacy's anymore.

No more fumble scrumbs.

Faster players not getting caught by slower players from my experiences from the past.

Coaching adjustments were also a game changer for me. Finally, can play best on best again.

I could really give a care about Longshot and I am sure that is the general consensus here,but outside of OS, Longshot was nominated for awards in the gaming industry and was well received outside of OS. Something like that isn't going away anytime soon.

There are good indications(not repeating them, I've stated them previously) that CFM will get a shot in the arm for 19, how much is not known until early June.

Agree with the challenge system(Clint mentioned that needs to be fixed), punting into the wind, playbooks and AI need to improve as well.

I've never encountered the weather issue with Madden 18, but many people have and that needs addressed too.

This game plays a great game with CPU vs User in CFM with great sliders. Another thing I will repeat again, the slider forum hasn't been this active with this kind of activity this late in the season. Those threads are well over 100 pages long with contributions from many different people.

[mykelmosinee]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I think there are some things people are forgetting as well. Off the ball injuries and no more Robo CPU QB's anymore are huge, in my book, and that maybe subjective. I get a different vibe on the OL this year, sorry. I've seen some of the best pockets forming from the User vs Cpu games I am playing. Also, some of the best QB play that I've noticed coming from Madden. No more 150 lb CB's taking down Eddie Lacy's anymore. No more fumble scrumbs. Faster players not getting caught by slower players from my experiences from the past. Coaching adjustments were also a game changer for me. Finally, can play best on best again. I could really give a care about Longshot and I am sure that is the general consensus here,but outside of OS, Longshot was nominated for awards in the gaming industry and was well received outside of OS. Something like that isn't going away anytime soon. There are good indications(not repeating them, I've stated them previously) that CFM will get a shot in the arm for 19, how much is not known until early June. Agree with the challenge system(Clint mentioned that needs to be fixed), punting into the wind, playbooks and AI need to improve as well. I've never encountered the weather issue with Madden 18, but many people have and that needs addressed too. This game plays a great game with CPU vs User in CFM with great sliders. Another thing I will repeat again, the slider forum hasn't been this active with this kind of activity this late in the season. Those threads are well over 100 pages long with contributions from many different people.

I don't see tons of threads in the slider forum as a positive, as all that means is there are more adjustments needed this year than in the past to get the game to a playable level.
Also, this year we have waited longer than in the past to get things cleaned up (bugs and glitches) while still having some pretty major things working incorrectly.

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[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by mykelmosinee

I don't see tons of threads in the slider forum as a positive, as all that means is there are more adjustments needed this year than in the past to get the game to a playable level. Also, this year we have waited longer than in the past to get things cleaned up (bugs and glitches) while still having some pretty major things working incorrectly. Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

I agree with your second paragraph, but I disagree with the first one a lot.

Very positive community up there.

[Nunyerbiz]

I agree there have been improvements... although I'll disagree with the Eddie Lacy / CB thing. If you don't have the "power back" type running the ball, and even then it's a crapshoot, RBs seem to have virtually zero momentum unless you manage to trigger a truck stick. Almost anybody who hits them drives right through them most of the time.. I see way too much "RB on his back" and not enough "pile falling forward".

I think part of that is just a core mechanic problem... there isn't enough defenders breaking down, forfeiting their momentum but getting into a good base to contain and make a wrap tackle... It's just two player models charging at each other until tackle / juke / truck animations get triggered... and while that works well enough most of the time... I still think 200lb RBs running full speed get smacked around more then they should.

Just for the record, I'm not saying this because I want my RBs to do better... I actually notice this most often when I user my CB / FS and need them to do run support. If the RB doesn't trigger a specific "make them miss the tackle" animation, they get driven backwards most of the time.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nunyerbiz

I agree there have been improvements... although I'll disagree with the Eddie Lacy / CB thing. If you don't have the "power back" type running the ball, and even then it's a crapshoot, Just for the record, I'm not saying this because I want my RBs to do better... I actually notice this most often when I user my CB / FS and need them to do run support. If the RB doesn't trigger a specific "make them miss the tackle" animation, they get driven backwards most of the time.

You just answered with crapshoot, ie, dice rolls.

I'm not saying it happens all the time, I am saying the mechanic is much improved from prior Maddens.

When I user a Safety or a CB in open field vs a RB, there is a good chance I miss the RB because of the updated jukes and spins on some of the RB's. Rawls tore me apart with all of his moves in his arsenal.

All I was trying to point out that there have been some good improvements to the game that tends to be overlooked.