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Old 06-06-2018, 03:59 PM   #153
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Re: Article on EA financials leaves little doubt what Madden 19 focus will be

Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
Eh. The single objectively good thing about Vision Cone as it existed in its final form was it made the function of the AWR rating for quarterbacks immediately evident, which obviously appeals to "sim" users.

There may have also been some ability to "look off" DBs but with as bad as DB play was in those old Madden games I never noticed any such behavior in practice - certainly nothing distinct from how the DBs would play in the general case - so I'm personally not going to give the feature that credit.

Regardless, the negatives far outweigh that one obvious benefit and one other potential benefit:

- the giant flashlight was ugly to look at

- the giant flashlight immediately and obviously hampered the graphical authenticity of the game

- the entire concept overcomplicated the game for new users with no previous experience with football games

- the button control scheme was absolutely bonkers and clunky

- the right thumb stick control scheme took control away from veteran users since it replaced during-play Playmaker controls (redirecting WRs with the right stick)

- the entire concept took control away from all players by penalizing throws made to receivers outside of the Vision Cone without any bonus for consistently completing passes to receivers in the Vision Cone (i.e. it was an unnecessary layer to the controls)

- the entire concept slowed down the game for all users by requiring a user see an open receiver twice (once with his own eyes, a second time with his QB's eyes with whatever control scheme), leading to unnecessary sacks and late throws into coverage just because users couldn't push buttons fast enough get the ball out of the QB's hand (as opposed to previous and subsequent Madden games where passing the ball to an open receiver is as simple as a single button press)

So yeah, I don't miss Vision Cone whatsoever. I also obviously don't think it had much if any redeeming value. Its single good function - making AWR matter for user QBs - can be far better achieved with other mechanics, IMO.
The cone was so amazingly wonderful. It was a feature that completely and totally rewarded me for playing the game the same way that I always have, focusing on that specific type of passing game. While at the same time, brutally punishing the CPU when they had a QB who did not or could not play that way. It was a dream come true, and was gut wrenching when they took it away.

I remember all of those debates on MM, with the online cheezers whining about it. That group became who EA has catered to every since. That was really the beginning of the end for the good old days.
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Old 06-06-2018, 04:13 PM   #154
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Re: Article on EA financials leaves little doubt what Madden 19 focus will be

Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
Eh. The single objectively good thing about Vision Cone as it existed in its final form was it made the function of the AWR rating for quarterbacks immediately evident, which obviously appeals to "sim" users.

There may have also been some ability to "look off" DBs but with as bad as DB play was in those old Madden games I never noticed any such behavior in practice - certainly nothing distinct from how the DBs would play in the general case - so I'm personally not going to give the feature that credit.

Regardless, the negatives far outweigh that one obvious benefit and one other potential benefit:

- the giant flashlight was ugly to look at

- the giant flashlight immediately and obviously hampered the graphical authenticity of the game

- the entire concept overcomplicated the game for new users with no previous experience with football games

- the button control scheme was absolutely bonkers and clunky

- the right thumb stick control scheme took control away from veteran users since it replaced during-play Playmaker controls (redirecting WRs with the right stick)

- the entire concept took control away from all players by penalizing throws made to receivers outside of the Vision Cone without any bonus for consistently completing passes to receivers in the Vision Cone (i.e. it was an unnecessary layer to the controls)

- the entire concept slowed down the game for all users by requiring a user see an open receiver twice (once with his own eyes, a second time with his QB's eyes with whatever control scheme), leading to unnecessary sacks and late throws into coverage just because users couldn't push buttons fast enough get the ball out of the QB's hand (as opposed to previous and subsequent Madden games where passing the ball to an open receiver is as simple as a single button press)

So yeah, I don't miss Vision Cone whatsoever. I also obviously don't think it had much if any redeeming value. Its single good function - making AWR matter for user QBs - can be far better achieved with other mechanics, IMO.


Lol. I donít think u like Ďchallengesí in your games.

Thatís what was great about the cone. It added an extra level of control for those that chose to use it. Correct me if Iím wrong, but wasnít this a choice? Meaning, u could completely turn off or not use?

And, while your descriptions of its use are Ďaccurate,í people who appreciated this feature saw and used it differently. U mention the user having to see the wr twice. This is sort of true, but if u played the vision cone Ďproperly,í it was the qbís eyes. So, when u took the snap, the first thing u would do is flick the cone (gotta use the stick, man, the buttons were cheesy and too easy) either off your primary wr if u wanted to look the D off him or on the primary if it was a slant or something quick. I loved this extra level of control.

And, yes, Iím sure it was hard for newbies. But, again, they didnít have to play with it all. But, for those that wanted the extra challenge/precision/sim style, this was perfect. Iím a falcons guy, and I was stuck with mike Vickís TINY cone!!!! Lol. And, I LOVED it! Once I got the hang of it, I got more satisfaction out of a deep pass looking off first and then switching to a fly route on the other side of the field, getting the cone on my wr and completing the TD. Knowing that I made that happen with my eyes and play calling.

And, not getting the cone around in time and getting an incomplete pass was also worth that realism as well (something we still struggle to see today - inaccurate passes). And, it actually gave more of a feel of getting sacked while looking downfield. Because, u were concentrating more on the cone and finding the wr in the cone, u did take more sacks. Thatís a GOOD thing! Lol. In every other madden, u could arguably simply look at the lineplay and throw the ball to any wr at an appropriate window and complete it. The cone forced u to do what a qb does and really look at your wr. So, for that, I give it props for actually adding realism.

I get all the neg args against it, and normally Iím not one for extra Ďgraphicsí in the field (I HATE the tackle battle button prompt as an example), but because this cone actually had functionality, I didnít mind it at all. I didnít cry when it left, lol, but I really enjoyed it while it was there. And, I did see the functionality of looking off DBs and the difference between hitting a wr in and out of cone. This was one of the more interesting features that I think the madden team actually right off their first iteration.

But, it is what it is. People donít like challenge in games, in general. And, that seems worse now than before, actually. We live in an age of big money, microtransactions, and everyone wants to win the game without knowing how to play. ☹️ Iím a destiny guy and have been disappointed with D2 for just that reason. They took away the challenge, they made the game easier for casuals and made it a complete bore for hardcore gamers who love the raid challenges and overall pace of the game. That spirit (or lack thereof) kills me as lifelong hardcore gamer who enjoys challenging games.


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Old 06-06-2018, 04:25 PM   #155
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Re: Article on EA financials leaves little doubt what Madden 19 focus will be

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhMrHanky
Lol. I donít think u like Ďchallengesí in your games.

Thatís what was great about the cone. It added an extra level of control for those that chose to use it. Correct me if Iím wrong, but wasnít this a choice? Meaning, u could completely turn off or not use?

And, while your descriptions of its use are Ďaccurate,í people who appreciated this feature saw and used it differently. U mention the user having to see the wr twice. This is sort of true, but if u played the vision cone Ďproperly,í it was the qbís eyes. So, when u took the snap, the first thing u would do is flick the cone (gotta use the stick, man, the buttons were cheesy and too easy) either off your primary wr if u wanted to look the D off him or on the primary if it was a slant or something quick. I loved this extra level of control.

And, yes, Iím sure it was hard for newbies. But, again, they didnít have to play with it all. But, for those that wanted the extra challenge/precision/sim style, this was perfect. Iím a falcons guy, and I was stuck with mike Vickís TINY cone!!!! Lol. And, I LOVED it! Once I got the hang of it, I got more satisfaction out of a deep pass looking off first and then switching to a fly route on the other side of the field, getting the cone on my wr and completing the TD. Knowing that I made that happen with my eyes and play calling.

And, not getting the cone around in time and getting an incomplete pass was also worth that realism as well (something we still struggle to see today - inaccurate passes). And, it actually gave more of a feel of getting sacked while looking downfield. Because, u were concentrating more on the cone and finding the wr in the cone, u did take more sacks. Thatís a GOOD thing! Lol. In every other madden, u could arguably simply look at the lineplay and throw the ball to any wr at an appropriate window and complete it. The cone forced u to do what a qb does and really look at your wr. So, for that, I give it props for actually adding realism.

I get all the neg args against it, and normally Iím not one for extra Ďgraphicsí in the field (I HATE the tackle battle button prompt as an example), but because this cone actually had functionality, I didnít mind it at all. I didnít cry when it left, lol, but I really enjoyed it while it was there. And, I did see the functionality of looking off DBs and the difference between hitting a wr in and out of cone. This was one of the more interesting features that I think the madden team actually right off their first iteration.

But, it is what it is. People donít like challenge in games, in general. And, that seems worse now than before, actually. We live in an age of big money, microtransactions, and everyone wants to win the game without knowing how to play. ☹️ Iím a destiny guy and have been disappointed with D2 for just that reason. They took away the challenge, they made the game easier for casuals and made it a complete bore for hardcore gamers who love the raid challenges and overall pace of the game. That spirit (or lack thereof) kills me as lifelong hardcore gamer who enjoys challenging games.


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I've been playing some of the older Maddens in the lead up to 19, so I got to toy around with Vision Cone in '07 last night.

Vision Cone doesn't even pop up unless you start toying around with the right thumbstick. Now, who knows, there may be a penalty for not using it at all, but I didn't notice one.
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Old 06-06-2018, 05:08 PM   #156
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Re: Article on EA financials leaves little doubt what Madden 19 focus will be

Lol yeah it was an optional feature. Didn’t have to use it unless you activated it. Which made me scratch my head even more when people whined and moaned about it constantly back in the day. You don’t have to use the feature lmao
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Old 06-06-2018, 05:28 PM   #157
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Re: Article on EA financials leaves little doubt what Madden 19 focus will be

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhMrHanky
Lol. I don’t think u like ‘challenges’ in your games.
I'm not exactly jumping at the bit to play Dark Souls, but I enjoy challenging games.

However, I don't like challenge when A - the challenge is contrived, and B - the reward doesn't mesh with the difficulty. Unlike Target Passing - which offers incredibly obvious gameplay benefits for using well at the end of its super-steep learning curve - the Vision Cone offer no new tactical gameplay benefit for its use. It only offered a penalty for using it poorly. Mastery of the Vision Cone meant users could return to throwing passes the exact same way they did in Madden 2005. The Vision Cone also didn't help users understand the nuances of passing plays in any way. Why would any gamer his time with the mechanic if mastery of it doesn't help him play the game in a more skilled manner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ijumpedthegun
Vision Cone doesn't even pop up unless you start toying around with the right thumbstick. Now, who knows, there may be a penalty for not using it at all, but I didn't notice one.
To the best of my recollection, the Vision Cone was not optional in Madden 06 when it was introduced. Later games (starting with Madden 07) phased it out as optional in the manner you describe until it was removed entirely.
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Old 06-06-2018, 05:32 PM   #158
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Re: Article on EA financials leaves little doubt what Madden 19 focus will be

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Originally Posted by Unlucky 13
I remember all of those debates on MM, with the online cheezers whining about it. That group became who EA has catered to every since. That was really the beginning of the end for the good old days.
Yep, Tiburon has surely catered exclusively to the "online cheesers" so much over the years by removing nano blitzes / mossing / other unrealistic tactics and adding game mechanics inspired by real-world football concepts like ID The Mike / pattern matching zones / run fits / etc.

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Old 06-06-2018, 05:38 PM   #159
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Re: Article on EA financials leaves little doubt what Madden 19 focus will be

Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
Yep, Tiburon has surely catered exclusively to the "online cheesers" so much over the years by removing nano blitzes / mossing / other unrealistic tactics and adding game mechanics inspired by real-world football concepts like ID The Mike / pattern matching zones / run fits / etc.

To be honest.. nanos still exist and if anything nano detection (making a guy who has a free rush stop and do nothing) is ugly. ID the mike isn’t true to the real term and is instead just a point out the blitzer feature. And “mossing” was never the issue.. rocket catching and whatever the new one is where you zig zag have been the issue. Where you’re abusing the coding rather than just using a good player to catch over someone.

But yes I agree I don’t think they catered to “online cheesers” as that was put poorly in that post. But they do cater to the “competitive” community which favors utilizing “cheesy” techniques in h2h games ie. running the same 3 plays with hot routes etc.
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:54 PM   #160
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Re: Article on EA financials leaves little doubt what Madden 19 focus will be

Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
Yep, Tiburon has surely catered exclusively to the "online cheesers" so much over the years by removing nano blitzes / mossing / other unrealistic tactics and adding game mechanics inspired by real-world football concepts like ID The Mike / pattern matching zones / run fits / etc.

They've catered to people who would rather have a watered down online experience instead of focusing on those who want a deep, realistic offline one. I don't think that anyone can possibly doubt that. This thread has multiple examples of that very fact.
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