The Madden franchise is out of touch with NFL fans

[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by briz1046

I think you are missing the point of Joshs post , we here are not EAs target audience nor are we it's core fan base we are a fringe minority. Our voice here is disproprtionately loud in comparison to our financial impact on sales and any 'mass revolt' or boycott type tactics would in reality have little impact The majority of buyers are of a casual nature , they do not come to this kind of forum they simply play the game as it is and apparently EAs data suggests they are largely satisfied ( if otherwise they would act accordingly ) This does not mean we should remain silent and not clamour for the improvements we seek , it does however mean we should temper our expectations as to how often and how quickly these are going to be met . Reaching a consensus amongst ourselves and targeting specific items ( as opposed to broad statements like needs more depth or immersion) would help with this I believe

I understood his point. I just disagree with it. I dont think the ides that we’re the minority should mean our concerns are cast aside.

“... we should temper our expectations as to how often and how quickly these are going to be met”

What is consider a realistic timeframe? How long has it been since playbooks have been updated? How long has franchise mode been virtually the same? How long has it been since defensive holding has been removed?

I’n not saying I expect the game to cater to us especially out of the box. But I think y’all low expectations are part of the problem. The 2k community consistently talks about things they like/dislike about the game. They sell well and their vocal minority is still heard.

EA UFC has one of the best Dev teams around and has tried their best to accomodate casual, competitive, and sim crowds. Madden has blatantly dismissed the sim crowd over the years and you guys have grown to accept it.

That said I dont really wanna focus on this part of the discussion. I was hoping for people to talk more about specific things they feel are missing instead of arguing whether or not it’s okay for EA to ignore the sim crowd

[briz1046]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phillyboi207

arguing whether or not it’s okay for EA to ignore the sim crowd

Surely the title of this thread suggests that's exactly what this thread is about ? Raising specific wishlist requests would be more appropriately handled in threads designated for those individual demands

[Phillyboi207]

Quote: Originally Posted by briz1046

Surely the title of this thread suggests that's exactly what this thread is about ? Raising specific wishlist requests would be more appropriately handled in threads designated for those individual demands

It’s about both. But the OP was long so I can see it’d be taken as specifically a complaint thread.

This post was meant more so for the sim crowd to be heard instead of a general request thread.

I was voicing my frustration and attempting to offer constructive feedback. I dont mind discussing the former but I know the thread will be locked fairly soon if it just becomes a debate about whether it’s okay for Sim Madden players to be ignored.

[nflman2033]

Quote: Originally Posted by briz1046

I think you are missing the point of Joshs post , we here are not EAs target audience nor are we it's core fan base we are a fringe minority. Our voice here is disproprtionately loud in comparison to our financial impact on sales and any 'mass revolt' or boycott type tactics would in reality have little impact The majority of buyers are of a casual nature , they do not come to this kind of forum they simply play the game as it is and apparently EAs data suggests they are largely satisfied ( if otherwise they would act accordingly ) This does not mean we should remain silent and not clamour for the improvements we seek , it does however mean we should temper our expectations as to how often and how quickly these are going to be met . Reaching a consensus amongst ourselves and targeting specific items ( as opposed to broad statements like needs more depth or immersion) would help with this I believe

I'll tell you a quick story about that target audience. When 18 came out my friend put together a online franchise with his gamer friends. Hes a football fan and hardcore gamer, streams on twitch. But hes not a hardcore sports gamer like myself.

Did fantasy draft and had lots of fun, by week 6 of the season he quit. Why? The game was too hard and he couldn't accomplish anything. We had it set on all pro simulation default sliders.

2 of his other gamer friends had the same issueand just stopped playing their games. I had another sports gaming friend drop it to Pro, mind you I was undefeated vs CPU on All Pro, and once we went to Pro it was ridiculously easy for me.

But even he got frustrated and quit. Ended up a two man league. All his gamer friends moved on by the time we finished 1 season.

The casual NFL fans do not want a real simulation game. Those guys would have been happy playing Arcade. I was the one on the minority, just as nearly everyone on this board.

[Caulfield]

We knew it would happen sooner or later when John Madden was no longer able to influence the direction of the game.
Might as well be maddening NFL now

[Charvalos]

Quote: Originally Posted by nflman2033

The casual NFL fans do not want a real simulation game. Those guys would have been happy playing Arcade. I was the one on the minority, just as nearly everyone on this board.

The 3 differents modes weren't supposed to solve that ?

Quote: Originally Posted by EA

Arcade is the high-octane version of Madden. This game style delivers a fast-paced, exciting style of play where high scores and spectacular catches are the norm and penalties are very limited. The user-controlled player is the “boss” and will feel like the most powerful player on the field. This mode is perfect for the gamer trying to get in a quick, casual, and action-filled game. Simulation is the authentic NFL experience. This is the game style plays true to player and team ratings and NFL rules. This game style includes all supported penalties, injuries, and other random outcomes you see every Sunday. The players on your roster and the schemes you employ will be critical to success when playing Simulation. This is the game mode for players that are fans of football and want to play a game that’s true to that form. Simulation is the default style for connected franchise mode. Competitive is all about head-to-head competition and tournament play. This is where user stick-skills are king and certain outcomes will be heavily weighted based on game situations and ratings thresholds. Penalties are limited, there are no injuries, and random outcomes are rare. Executing gameplay mechanics and making the right reads dictate success when playing Competitive. EA competitive gaming events and ranked online game modes will be set to this style by default. Be ready for some trash talk, for this is where the Madden hardcore reside.

All supported penalties, random outcomes we see every Sunday, etc.

[sinthros]

Quote: Originally Posted by JoshC1977

I think Madden is right in-step with the majority of its fanbase. They have multiple online game modes and a solid action-style gameplay. The UT mode is considered one of the best card-collecting modes and they have a solid franchise mode that nicely balances depth with ease/accessibility. The gameplay (at its baseline All Pro level) is EASILY the most balanced and "fair" User v CPU play of any of the EA/2K sports titles and it's graphically one of the best looking games of the genre. Madden does way more right than it does wrong. Most people out there aren't begging for defensive holding to be added back into the game; they don't want pockets to break down every play in 2 seconds to replicate real life; they don't want want a hardcore sim of the NFL. They want a fascimile of the NFL that is fun to play....they want to role play as the player/coach/GM/owner of their team without being bogged down with a bloated and cumbersome franchise mode (i.e. like NBA 2k's). Madden is 100% targeting to a) gamers who are casual NFL fans and b) NFL fans who are casual gamers. So is every other major sports game out there. The hardcore fans of those games are being pushed a bit more to the periphery as compromises are made across the board. Guys, most people in this forum (myself included) are now on the periphery - we are not the target audience and that isn't going to change. Truth be told....it's quite liberating once you've accepted that and just have fun with the game as it is. Yeah, I'm like you, I'd like more options added - I'd like more little things added. And slowly but surely they have been. But to say the series is "out of touch with NFL fans"....that's way off-base.

Josh is right that we aren't the target audience, that's been evident, but that doesn't mean we should lower/temper our expectations. I mean, this game has been being developed for thirty years now, we deserve an authentic sim experience for our 60 dollars; isn't that the point of separating simulation and competitive modes?
I don't see it happening anytime soon, though. It's just clearly not their M.O. Thank god for people like Sabo, Michapop, Willchillz (wherever he may be) and DaReal Milliticket for working so hard to mod/change things within the game for the better. Without their work this game would be so unplayable for me as a sim player, personally.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by sinthros

Josh is right that we aren't the target audience, that's been evident, but that doesn't mean we should lower/temper our expectations. I mean, this game has been being developed for thirty years now, we deserve an authentic sim experience for our 60 dollars; isn't that the point of separating simulation and competitive modes? I don't see it happening anytime soon, though. It's just clearly not their M.O. Thank god for people like Sabo, Michapop, Willchillz (wherever he may be) and DaReal Milliticket for working so hard to mod/change things within the game for the better. Without their work this game would be so unplayable for me as a sim player, personally.

I think in my experiences with life in general, one can aim high and shoot low and expect something in between. As you said, Madden has been in existence for 30 years and we've known for the past several years where it's headed. I've said this for the past few years, I not expecting Madden to make me a sim game for me anymore(based on present direction of the game), just give me the tools so I can tailor the game for my sim needs, just like you are doing on PC. I would need to see further evidence of separating the modes out to change my opinion.

And I give folks credit in the slider forums as well for the console players.

My feeling is if you are aiming high for Madden to be sim like on Sundays, you are setting yourselves up for further disappointments.

All comes down to personal choices.