SimFBallCritic Analyzes Man Coverage in All-Pro Football 2K8 and Madden 20

[Aestis]

Quote: Originally Posted by khaliib

But before they had the safeties reacting to WR in front of them and Clint got crucified concerning the deep ball behind them. So they adjusted the AI to adhere to coverage rule of the play. Again for the essence of fun in H2H play variables are set to produce more open passing. Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth are set short (some are 12yrds) - the original counter-balance to this was the Superman jumping LB’s - jumping LB’s was reduced, but the Underneath Zones MaxDist_Depth was not touched so Where the issue above really becomes an eyesore is Zones in the Endzones because the logic/coverage rules become muddled. Lastly, the high QB THP is a user “bailout” and destroys both Man/Zone Coverages. - ball speed is set at “20’s” creating these 30+yrd zipline throws (again H2H fun factor) - the ball speed is overriding the variables in my previous post, esp Read/React. I’ve suggested to Clint for 3 yrs now, simply supply a robust Gameplay Customization Suite (ability to adjust these very aspects) and a lot of these issues would be remedied at the User level for their personal experience.

To piggyback onto this, in M19 closed beta, they had deep half zones reacting to deep outs & posts, as an example, when they were the lone deep route to that side. Deep blue zones were playing aggressive to the receiver, doubling or even sort of bracketing, instead of spot dropping uselessly.

As a result deep passing was WAY tougher, much more like IRL where you can't just throw it 15+ yds beyond the LOS every other attempt. It's not as if IRL QBs wouldn't like to just as often as Madden players, they just usually can't attempt the throw because NFL defenses can easily take away the deep ball when they want to. So what happened? Players in the beta loudly complained that coverage was way too tough. When the game shipped, these deep blues were back to not playing the receiver.

The reality is the game can often do what some people here want it to do. But the other part of that reality is most don't actually want it to do this. Even 'sim' players expect to throw it downfield through the air at a far more aggressive rate than IRL QBs.

[JoshC1977]

Quote: Originally Posted by Madden08PCgmr

At this point, I wish they would just take franchise mode out of the game. Put us out of our misery. Want to be Esports, online and MUT. Great! Do that. And more power to you, obviously its working out. Just stop teasing us with the rest. Might even further your quest, not wasting resources elsewhere.

I've walked away from a couple of other sports series that had franchise modes that went into the crapper...I just walked away...I don't post in the forums for those games anymore, I don't buy them, I barely even acknowledge their existence.

Other people enjoy them though and I have ZERO right to state that the mode should be removed from the game just because I don't like it. I'm not special...I don't have that right...and I'm not entitled to any preferential treatment....

[PhillyPhanatic14]

Quote: Originally Posted by JoshC1977

I've walked away from a couple of other sports series that had franchise modes that went into the crapper...I just walked away...I don't post in the forums for those games anymore, I don't buy them, I barely even acknowledge their existence. Other people enjoy them though and I have ZERO right to state that the mode should be removed from the game just because I don't like it. I'm not special...I don't have that right...and I'm not entitled to any preferential treatment....

You sound like someone who played the MLB 2K games


Totally agree though. It would be bogus to get rid of franchise. That solves nothing for us. Especially when they have the exclusive license for 5 more years. Franchise isn't at the place that any of us would like it to be, but it's still the mode i play 99% of the time i spend playing madden and if it were gone there's little chance of me buying the game.

[openureyez]

Quote: Originally Posted by Aestis

To piggyback onto this, in M19 closed beta, they had deep half zones reacting to deep outs & posts, as an example, when they were the lone deep route to that side. Deep blue zones were playing aggressive to the receiver, doubling or even sort of bracketing, instead of spot dropping uselessly. As a result deep passing was WAY tougher, much more like IRL where you can't just throw it 15+ yds beyond the LOS every other attempt. It's not as if IRL QBs wouldn't like to just as often as Madden players, they just usually can't attempt the throw because NFL defenses can easily take away the deep ball when they want to. So what happened? Players in the beta loudly complained that coverage was way too tough. When the game shipped, these deep blues were back to not playing the receiver. The reality is the game can often do what some people here want it to do. But the other part of that reality is most don't actually want it to do this. Even 'sim' players expect to throw it downfield through the air at a far more aggressive rate than IRL QBs.

Thank you for confirming my sanity. I played the M19 beta and I enjoyed how it played much better than M18. Then I got the game in hand I was confused af. It’s been that way on several betas. The game felt different in beta, even the ball seemed to have more realistic physics. I couldn’t ever figure out why until I read your post regarding the deep passing.

[Madden08PCgmr]

Quote: Originally Posted by Milticket

So you would rather have less? That logic doesn't make sense to me. I mean they're adding things to Franchise yr to yr, bit by bit. No way there going to make everyone happy one way or another every yr. Looking forward to what they add this yr, it's what it is.

"They're not going to make everyone happy..."

They could. They certainly have the resources and finances at their disposal. They make the choice not to. Their choice. I've learned to live with it.

I would rather the mode be removed. It would remove a great deal of the angst and consternation with the product. And I think it would be better for the product overall, not wasting valuable resources on something they ultimately don't seem to be interested in.

[Darth Aegis]

Quote: Originally Posted by Madden08PCgmr

"They're not going to make everyone happy..." They could. They certainly have the resources and finances at their disposal. They make the choice not to. Their choice. I've learned to live with it. I would rather the mode be removed. It would remove a great deal of the angst and consternation with the product. And I think it would be better for the product overall, not wasting valuable resources on something they ultimately don't seem to be interested in.

I still disagree with everything your saying but that's okay. I don't think they're wasting time on Franchise at all & want them to put those resources into Franchise Mode. Trust me, if this mode had everything a person could imagine, it still would fall short of people's expectations. Everyone being happy is a pipe dream, especially when it comes to Madden.

[SolidSquid]

Quote: Originally Posted by tril

if that's the case, they can still do this by having the AI play more logically. NFL QB's have to fit passes into tight windows, coverage alot of the time. Madden's AI in coverage is horrible. the worst DB's in The NFL are maybe 1-2 steps behind when they get beat, and recover to make said tackle. Blown coverages do happen, but in Madden 90% of the catches by wr seem to be blown coverage where the receiver is open by 5+ yards. not realistic. even in Madden, the zone coverage doesn't seem or feel organic, when compared to 2k. Madden and 2k are fundamentally 2 different games. Madden is highlight driven. 2k does a good job replicating the little nuances that make football, football, which is supposed to be tactical.

they arent even blown coverages in madden, they "wtf" plays. Call man to man, shade inside, wr runs a slant, your corner takes 2 steps outside giving up and easy release and catch when you knew what was coming. Dont even get me started on zone, its still basic spot dropping where you end having guys covering no one. The last thing that messes up zone coverage is it rarely converts to man once the qb starts scrambling.

[illwill10]

Quote: Originally Posted by Milticket

I still disagree with everything your saying but that's okay. I don't think they're wasting time on Franchise at all & want them to put those resources into Franchise Mode. Trust me, if this mode had everything a person could imagine, it still would fall short of people's expectations. Everyone being happy is a pipe dream, especially when it comes to Madden.

Yeah I agree. Since the inception of CFM, they haven't devoted much resources at all to Franchise outside of "top community requests" and scenario engine. I don't see removing it as the best idea. The devs have said franchise has good user statistics. So it would make sense if they actually start catering to that mode.

I just want the depth of PS2/Xbox Madden Franchise/HC at the very least. That at least shows that they care capable of doing it. It's just that resources are devoted to other modes