Pitbull's All-Madden Sliders

[BritPitbull]

Right, after getting a good dressing down for criticising Jay's sliders (which are very popular btw) I've picked up the gauntlet and decided to put up or shut up and create, from scratch, some All-Madden sliders based on the way I experience the game and its inherent problems.

Premise: I believe the biggest problem with editing the sliders in Madden has always been that they don't do what they say on the tin. No-one seems to know for sure what they do. For Example, in my opinion;
-QB Accuracy also effects range/throwing power.
-Defensive awareness effects the speed of the defense too, knockdowns may only effect linemen and not DB at all (who knows what the effect is on LBs?)
-Run Blocking effects punt and kick returns.
-WR catching effects jumping and maybe route running
-Break blocking will have consequences for bump and run

With all of these variables in play it is no wonder that you're more likely to find the Holy Grail than good sliders. The most misunderstood and I believe most crucial slider is the RB Ability adjuster. This slider effects the skill and speed of every player once they are in possession of the football. If you max this out on a lower level you'll never catch a WR and even if you did he would spin or stiff arm you to death no matter who you were controlling at the time.

History:

I believe that the frustration that is Madden usually goes like this.
1. Realisation that something ain't right. Why doesn't the CPU run the ball?
2. Increse the RBA and RBK sliders to counter this
3. Finding that now the passing game is unstoppable as the CPU pings 80 yard bombs as the WR burn past your corners
4. Reduce the CPU's QB accuracy to prevent the passing game. Still can't stop it. He completes less, but the ones he does complete still go all the way.
5.If the RB does get the ball he'll go 80 yards cause of the boosted sliders anyway.
6. Improvement in run blocking is now causing lots of punt return TDs also
7. In desperation you improve the Human Sliders to stay competitive
8. Result you now have a game that takes ages to finish cause everything's incomplete or a TD, You win 83-58 every week, The CPU wouldn't know a running play if it fell over it, punts and KRs are unstopable. Your corners are the only ones with any tackles, and Jeff Blake just lit you up for 600 yards for the second time this season.

This is what people are made to play in hell!!!!

Mission:

Okay the task is to finally find All-Madden sliders that make this game;
1. realistic, 2. competitive, and above all 3. fun.

There are several other problems. Firstly I've never really designed sliders before so I'm preparing for the worst here. Hopefully common sense will dictate what needs to be done and with some imput and help from you guys maybe we'll discover that holy grail and it'll all be worth it.

Another thing to consider is that even if I suddenly come up with the best sliders I've ever used, everyone else may hate them, so whatever happens not everybody is gonna be happy. Everyone plays a different style and is of a different ability to the next guy so I imagine opinion is going to be highly divided.

Lastly a lot of people with far more Madden and slider experience than I have said that ALL-Madden is broken and "unslidable", well if anything, maybe we'll prove or disprove this by the time we're through. Anyway lets crack on with it.

[jayjackson]

Don't be a martyr. The only reason anyone said anything to you was because you played a half of football and then said everything was broken.

That's not constructive, and should be your first lesson if you have never designed sliders before. Sliders need at least 3-5 games to fully gel and let you know what's going on everywhere.

[BritPitbull]

Below are my first rough Sliders for Madden '05.

Quarter Length........12 minutes Acc clock
Skill Level...............All-Madden
Coach mode............Off
Injuries...................On
Pre Injuries..............On
Fatigue...................On
Madden Challenge.....Off
Weather..................On

Player Lock..............Off
Auto Subs...............On
Sub Out..................77
Sub In....................83
Passing..................Quick
Auto Avoid..............Off
Auto Strafe.............On
Off Catch Assist.......On
Def Catch Assist.......On

All Penalties Maxed out (for what it's worth)

Slider.......................Human................ CPU
QB Accuracy.............20......................4
Pass Blocking............20......................10
WR Catching.............12......................8
RB Ability..................10......................6
Run Blocking..............7.......................20

Awareness...............20......................8
Knockdowns.............20......................9
INT.........................7..................... ..6
Break Blocking...........7.......................8
Tackling...................20..................... 20

FG Length.................11.....................8
FG Accuracy..............2......................0
Punt Length...............9.....................20
Punt Accuracy...........20....................20
Kick0ff Length............11....................12

Okay, firstly these are completely off the top of my head and will need loads of tweaking whatever the results. Human awareness is very high and CPU RBA is only 6 but the CPU will still be able to run the ball due to the run blocking. Also the passing game will be in check due to the awareness and the low RBA. Punt returns will be possible due to the blocking but kept in check again by the RBA. Tackling is high to avoid lots of broken tackles and to promote fumbles. Anyway the results of the first test will be below.

[BritPitbull]

I tested these by playing as the Panthers visiting the Patriots. (note. If anyone tries these sliders it is vital that the teams you use have not been altered in any way. Ie they have the EA rosters, and you haven't done any trading of players. This way we can have a controlled test and the teams will not be effected by the low awareness of a load of rookies)

........................Panthers (me)..........Patriots.........NFL Average per team
Score.................6........................... 33...............20.83
Total Offense......169........................349....... .......318.3
Rushing Yards......80.........................109......... .....117.9
Passing Yards......89.........................240......... .....200.4
Pass attempts.....32.........................30........ ........32.2
Rush attempts.....22.........................31........ ........28.3
Completion %......37.........................70.............. ..58.8
1st Downs..........13.........................18...... ..........18.3
3rd Down conv....28%.......................35%............. 38.35%
penalties............5...........................1 ..................6.6
penalty yards......51.........................15.......... ......54.7
possession..........18.17.....................29.4 3............
Sacks.................5..........................4 ..................2.1
INT....................0.......................... 2..................1.05
Punts.................5..........................2 ..................4.98
Gross average.....54.2......................43.......... .......41
Net Average.......42.8......................41........ .........34.8
Yards p/return.....4.........................7.5.......... .......9.5


Scoring:.....Panthers...3....3....0....0
................Patriots...10...10...3...10


Main Performances:

Delhomme..22.7, 118 yards, 0 td, 2 INT, 12/32, 37%, 4 sack, 19 long
Brady......118.4, 258 yards, 2 td, 0 INT, 21/30, 70%. 5 sacks, 50 long

Davis.....72 yards, 0 td, 21 att, 3.4 Avg, 0 fmbl, 2 Btk, 42 AFH, 14 long
Dillon.....81 yards, 0 td, 22 att, 3.6, Avg, 0 fmbl, 2 Btk, 28 AFH, 13 long

Muhammed...5 rec, 35 yards, 7 AVg, 0 td, 4 Yac, 0 drops, 11 long
Mangum.......3 rec, 30 yards, 10 Avg, 0 td, 5 Yac, 0 drops, 11 long
T.Brown.......8 rec, 124 yards, 15.5 Avg, 1 td, 34 Yac, 0 drops, 50 long
Fauria..........5 rec, 51 yards, 10.2 Avg, 0 td, 19 Yac, 1 drop, 23 long

Pancake leaders were Gross 5, and Ashworth 6

Morgan........11 tackles...0 TFL, 3 sacks, 0 INT
Minter..........9 tackles....1 TFL, 0 sacks, 0 INT
Bruschi.........8 tackles....1 TFL, 1 sacks, 0 INT
Harrison........7 tackles....1 TFL, 0 sacks, 1 INT

Kasay......2/2 FG, 45 long
Vinatieri...4/5 FG, 39 long

[BritPitbull]

Well I got a good thumping there didn't I? To be honest I didn't play very well and threw an INT for a TD by pressing the wrong button of all things. Jeez.

Anyway the score isn't that relevant. I am more interestd in signs that I am on the right track.

The main theme of the game was that my offense couldn't advance against the league's best D. Running the ball wasn't too bad but I couldn't get anything done through the air. Their coverage was really good. Hence the poor performance from Delhomme.

Apart from my passing I was very pleased with many aspects of the game. Pass and run attempts were good for example. The biggest play of the game was 50 yards. The CPU put together lengthy drives which chewed the clock for 5 or 6 minutes at a time. The middle LB on each side was the leading tackler for his team. Both teams got sacks which is unsurprising with these two defenses and Dlines. Sometimes I was pressured other times my Oline held firm. Everything was in the range you would expect it to be in and there wasn't a single stat that you could look at and say "yeah right, that's way off". Only my passing performance is a cause for concern. As yet I'm not going to tinker with it until I've played another game.

One thing I didn't learn from that game was how bad the comeback code will be with these settings. Hopefully I'll find out in the next game. I'll post the results below.

[jayjackson]

Quote: Originally Posted by BritPitbull

Below are my first rough Sliders for Madden '05. Okay, firstly these are completely off the top of my head and will need loads of tweaking whatever the results. Human awareness is very high and CPU RBA is only 6 but the CPU will still be able to run the ball due to the run blocking. Also the passing game will be in check due to the awareness and the low RBA. Punt returns will be possible due to the blocking but kept in check again by the RBA. Tackling is high to avoid lots of broken tackles and to promote fumbles. Anyway the results of the first test will be below.

OK, so we'll do this like you did mine. You've made the CPU QB even more inept than he would be in my sliders, yet he still throws for over 258 yards? 20 for tackling will mean that NO back in the game will be able to break any tackles with the ridiculously low RB Ability. It looks like you took a copy of mine and then just made major changes to the base. You made the CPU Accuracy 3 points worse than mine, did it do anything to lower his accuracy? No, he still hit 21 of 30 on you, and still burnt you for the big play.

Like did you even play this game? Your game stats show that you gave up 109 yards on the ground, yet Dillon only has 81 yards? Where's the other 29 yards, where did they come from?

I dunno man, you took my 14 and 20 from Human Accuracy/Pass Blocking, made the accuracy 6 points better, and went 12 for 32.

What are you talking about here:

Quote: Originally Posted by GuyWhoStealsOthersStuffandPutsUpAsHisOwnWithMinorC hanges

Okay, firstly these are completely off the top of my head

FG Length - 11/8
FG Accuracy - 2/0
Punt Length - 9/20
Punt Accuracy - 20/20
Kickoff Length - 11/12

FG Length.................11.....................8
FG Accuracy..............2......................0
Punt Length...............9.....................20
Punt Accuracy...........20....................20
Kick0ff Length............11....................12

Just thought these up all on your own huh? More like you took my exact settings and claimed they are your own work.

Awareness - 19/7
Knockdowns - 20/0 (YES ZERO)
Interceptions - 7/6
Break Block - 4/3
Tackling - 8/4

Awareness...............20......................8
Knockdowns.............20......................9
INT.........................7..................... ..6
Break Blocking...........7.......................8
Tackling...................20..................... 20

1 point of awareness change for CPU, gave them 9 knockdowns which will most assuredly bring the CPU jump problems back, added 3 and 5 to breakblock, (which will only close the CPU holes, and now they don't have the ability to break tackles) and changed tackling to 20's - otherwise that's all my sliders too.

QB Accuracy - 14/7
Pass Blocking - 20/9-10 ** (RANGE - 9 and 10 both work, use 9 if sacks seem low)
WR Catching - 12/8
RB Ability - 10/17-20 *** (RANGE - recommend 17 but adjust for skill level)
Run Blocking - 7/20

Slider.......................Human................ CPU
QB Accuracy.............20......................4
Pass Blocking............20......................10
WR Catching.............12......................8
RB Ability..................10......................6
Run Blocking..............7.......................20

Only changes are to give the Human an insane accuracy advantage, and make the CPU worse. You lowered RB Ability for CPU to 6, otherwise again IT'S A DIRECT COPY OF MY SLIDERS.

If my sliders are so damn terrible, perhaps you'd care to stop plagiarizing them and claiming that they are THOUGHT UP OUT OF YOUR OWN HEAD.

[BritPitbull]

Waiting to pounce Jay?

I certainly didn't plaigarise you on purpose I was only focussing on a few key areas such as the RBs ability, blocking, etc, they were the things of the top of my head. My bad, I'm not looking to take credit for anything you've done if that's what you're worried about. If the rest is very similar to yours then it's because I have been looking at a few sliders today, yours being one of them and so, no it's no coincidence that they are similar.

I actually didn't even think about this, I just used what I had saved as the settings on my xbox as a base, and these were derived from a number of popular sliders (yours being one), so point taken.

I was primarily looking at how the alteration in RBA would effect things, such as Pass/Run ratio, etc. Don't worry they will probably look very different when I'm done. Anyway, for me it isn't a competition. I just want to find good settings. If that means using your exact sliders but with punt length put up a notch then I'll use them.

Either way, I'll say it again that its not that I thought your sliders were bad, I liked lots of different aspects of them. It's just that the couple of problems I had with them I couldn't get past. If that's down to my poor ability then okay, but there are surely other people out there of the same ability, that might feel the same and want to try something different.

I find it odd that this is so important to you. Chill out. If these sliders look like yours when I'm done and there any good you can take full credit for them.

[jayjackson]

You just don't get it, man.

You come into a thread with a lot of respected posters and a lot of GOOD being done. You have a bad game and then proceed to take a whole page of a thread showing all the research you've done, and then say that the sliders are (this is quoting you) "so bad that further testing is essentially pointless".

You then spread a bunch of misinformation about the sliders in general, where you don't know what you're talking about (admittedly now), but instead of just taking your lumps for trying to change things after one half of a game, you then take almost my entire slider set, make your own thread, and claim that you thought them up out of thin air.

Seriously guy, you don't see how this would piss someone off whos been doing all kinds of stuff for the users of this forum since this game has been released? I played test game after test game after test game to make sure they were as close as possible to just needing small individual tweaks for perfect performance for everyone. Then I get a guy who comes in talking about how we don't really no what the sliders do, yet he hadn't even played a game with them yet. I could quote the post if I had to.

All of this after I ask very plainly in the first post of my thread that if you are going to make a critique to do it after 3 games. Instead, you quit at halftime, came in and posted how bad they were and all the things that were terrible, got flamed, and then decided you were going to basically steal the sliders with a few bad adjustments and then make another thread on here.

All this within your first 15 posts on the website, GOOD JOB.

I wouldn't have a problem with you at all if you weren't doing the things you're doing - I'd even help fix your problem. No, you go and make your own thread, and within the first SENTENCE of it, you utter my name and about my sliders - here

Quote: Originally Posted by him

Right, after getting a good dressing down for criticising Jay's sliders (which are very popular btw) I've picked up the gauntlet and decided to put up or shut up and create, from scratch, some All-Madden sliders based on the way I experience the game and its inherent problems

The way you experience your *half* of a game, you mean right?

And "creating, from scratch" doesn't mean taking someone else's thread the POST DOWN FROM YOURS, and passing them off as stuff you've done.

I'll tell you flat out, you went about this all wrong...