madden should take notes from nba 2k11

[carnalnirvana]

bezo i agree with everything you say bruh however.

on that madden 11 disc there is wayyyy better gameplay trust me... and it resembles football with many aspects respected.

and i always go back to the ratings because i believe they rule gameplay.

a DT like PAT WILLIAMS can do what he does on sunday but it takes extreme rating adjustments to make it play out....

the AI logic " let the highest rating play out" so when they scan williams on default his 99 block shredding rating activates we get thet slip off block animation 99% of the time

if block shredding is lowered alot his strenght is next up he pushes the lineman back into the QB's face ( animations that would never have been expressed come to life)

then he uses his power swim moves if doubled or matched up against a guy with good footwork and strenght ..........ITS IN THERE.

another example most WR have a run blocking of mid 30's wow now most would say bumping them to 50-60 ish ( thats unrealistic) but thats the threshold where they will attempt to block then their other ratings kick in( which will determine their success as a blocker) followed by the corner's ratings so when running now you see a battle creating a hole and this all is due to the WR actually trying so now CB's are not automatically in the back field blowing runs up cheaple AGAIN ANIMATIONS OTHERWISE UNEXPRESSED NOW PLAYING OUT....

PERSONALLY all this game needs is tendencies to be a good game, greatness will require a complete overhaul i admit that.

sliders are not the cure, what good is bumping the computer run blocking to 100 when all that does is make their linemen block better with their 80+ ratings. what about the guys with20's 30's and 40's( the WR on the outside) you have not helped them at all. if you wanted better cpu running at 50 runblock slider(default) manually bump their WR to above 50 runblocking you would get hammered.

[huskerwr38]

I think this post should be changed to "Madden should take notes from NHL 11". I think they really made that game a better representation of hockey gameplay than NBA 2k11 made of basketball gameplay.

Btw, great post carnalnirvana, I agree with you in that respect that Madden doesn't play like real football BECAUSE of exactly what you said how the players don't play like real NFL players. However, I think it's essentially that Madden use some sort of physics based tackling engine because in real NFL, every tackle is different. In Madden, I've seen the same tackle over and over and over since I can remember. It sucks and I hate it.

They claim that they add hundreds of new animations every year, but it doesn't seem to ever change. I think they are to the point where they are over doing it with mocap because EVERY player interaction is based on a certain mocap, which there can only be so many of. For instance, I HATE seeing that animation where the players are walking back to the huddle and they bump into the other players and kind of shrug them off. That is the ONLY shrug off animation they have! I hate seeing it all the time.

So in short, they need a physics based interaction system like NHL 11 so that EVERY game is different and feels different.

[michapop9]

Quote: Originally Posted by carnalnirvana

madden however can play better if rated better, but i already see if they rated guys realistically the casuals would riot.

The "casuals" are "casuals" because they dont care, they play from time to time and most likely dont even know there are forums for games to complain on.

[Aggies7]

I personally love Madden 11. However I wish EA would cut out all the new gimicks each year and give us a game with true to life presentation and gameplay. Such as multiple game endings instead of same one for each game with cameras surrounding the POTG. Also I remember back years who NHL had a game with highlights from other games during your own game. Also would like to see a legit halftime show with highlights from other games especially near end of season during playoff race.

[Armor and Sword]

Quote: Originally Posted by Aggies7

I personally love Madden 11. However I wish EA would cut out all the new gimicks each year and give us a game with true to life presentation and gameplay. Such as multiple game endings instead of same one for each game with cameras surrounding the POTG. Also I remember back years who NHL had a game with highlights from other games during your own game. Also would like to see a legit halftime show with highlights from other games especially near end of season during playoff race.

Madden 2010 actually had a halftime report, yet they took it out this year. They did not build on what they started in the way of presentation on 2010.

Frustrating.

[HedoRick]

Quote: Originally Posted by celg35

lets see......madden has been out since august and nba 2k11 has been out since october. Not only do i love nba 2k11 right out of the box( no tweaks on sliders) but i have prob played more full games from nba than madden. The reason being is that madden doesnt feel right. I am constantly changing sliders in madden to make it play true to life. It is still herky jerky at times and the the game still has too many madden moments. I feel Nba plays true to the real game, where madden falls a little flat in some areas. I still enjoy madden , but now that i see the upside from nba 2k series in one year, there is no excuses anymore. not trying to bash EA, but your kind of being outshined. my advice for the EA team would be to take a look at nba and try to put that much effort into the installment of madden 12.

I have to agree with you. Madden doesn't 'feel' right.

I am thinking of buying 2k11 NBA instead of used Madden because I couldn't even finish games using slider sets that hard-working consumers created to make the game playable. I really hope madden listens to their customers this time around.

This is the first time in my life 27 years I have went without madden football game; that says something.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by carnalnirvana

on that madden 11 disc there is wayyyy better gameplay trust me... and it resembles football with many aspects respected. and i always go back to the ratings because i believe they rule gameplay.

I think we have different ideas of what better gameplay is, but let's see...

Quote: Originally Posted by carnalnirvana

a DT like PAT WILLIAMS can do what he does on sunday but it takes extreme rating adjustments to make it play out.... the AI logic " let the highest rating play out" so when they scan williams on default his 99 block shredding rating activates we get thet slip off block animation 99% of the time if block shredding is lowered alot his strenght is next up he pushes the lineman back into the QB's face ( animations that would never have been expressed come to life) then he uses his power swim moves if doubled or matched up against a guy with good footwork and strenght ..........ITS IN THERE.

Verticle action is not THAT bad in Madden. If Williams doesn't need to move laterally, yeah, this looks OK. But run outside and see what happens. One of 2 things: Williams wins and persues or blocker wins & pancakes.

Unfortuanately, what happens in the NFL most of the time is that the blocker will engage Williams while he flows towards the play, then Williams will shed or attempt to shed as he approaches the ball carrier. On outside plays, the entire o-line & d-line engage and flow playside, so far sometimes that the backside DE ends up beyond the where the center lined up originally. All of the running lanes shift. OLBs or DEs attempt to contain & keep outside leverage. Very rarely is a RB allowed to just take the corner, Chris Johnson not included. More often than not, a RB will turn it up inside the contain or cut it back.

In Madden, everone engages and is stuck in mud until someone wins. There's no flow to the outside. There's no contain. There are no gap assignments. Thus, the spacing & timing is nothing like the NFL. Many times when you run a toss/sweep, the only defender there is a CB unless the OLB or DE completely defeats his block.

Ever send Williams on a stunt? Did you laugh as he looped around aimlessly just to meet the o-linemen that has been waiting for him. Did you notice the 1st d-lineman made no attempt to engage 2 o-linemen, which is what his job really should be?

Ever control the DEs? No speed rush for guys like Freeney. No Reggie White hump move that DEs are bringing back. Same ole engage, patty cake, win/lose, go.

Quote: Originally Posted by carnalnirvana

another example most WR have a run blocking of mid 30's wow now most would say bumping them to 50-60 ish ( thats unrealistic) but thats the threshold where they will attempt to block then their other ratings kick in( which will determine their success as a blocker) followed by the corner's ratings so when running now you see a battle creating a hole and this all is due to the WR actually trying so now CB's are not automatically in the back field blowing runs up cheaple AGAIN ANIMATIONS OTHERWISE UNEXPRESSED NOW PLAYING OUT....

Are you really adjusting all the d-linemen & WR ratings? I'm not.

But some other things ratings don't fix: I can only motion one WR. If I want to motion a 2nd one, I have to put the 1st one back in his original spot. Neither can I stop a WR mid-motion as many teams do to identify man/zone coverage.

Nor can I press my CBs individually. Nor can I bring my SS down in the box without effecting my CBs. Nor can I shade my CBs.

All this after I can't even call a defensive play I want. Not being able to select stunts, blitzes & coverage separately leaves me with the few pre-packaged schemes EA provides. I rarely can find a defense that matches the scheme in my head, so I have to choose either the stunt, blitz or coverage I want and hope the rest will due.

Quote: Originally Posted by carnalnirvana

PERSONALLY all this game needs is tendencies to be a good game, greatness will require a complete overhaul i admit that.

Yeah, we disagree what a good football game is.

I could write an essay on what's missing. I'll just say the football I want to play is not here.

[fcabanski]

2K11 includes ignoring basic basketball rules - players with six fouls don't leave the game.

2K11 includes teams all drafting the same player in drafts.

2K11 includes auto play call in which the same two or three plays are called throughout the game.

Don't be too hasty.