2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

I understand the tired of complaints attitude towards gameplay. But I just can't accept the broken modes at all. It doesn't feel like any testing went on

[HowDareI]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

No, there is competition - you're ignoring it for whatever reasons you have. This isn't an exclusivity situation as there is with the NFL. My favorite sport is football. I purchased Madden once during all of last gen because the game simply wasn't palatable to me. I didn't buy it - repeatedly, year after year - then constantly cry about how it wasn't what I wanted but since it was the only game available I played it as if they had a gun to my head. Some of the people that complain incessantly on this forum have a totally different tone in the other basketball forum. I get legitimate complaints for trying to improve a product. But some here can't bring themselves to do even that; they have to act as if the game has precious little redeeming value and they're somehow being forced to play it. For all this talk about how bad the game is, I never see anyone posting video of a game that's supposedly better. And PLEASE don't use NBA2K11 as an example - the same dev team made that game too. That's tiring also; acting as if every game 2K's done has sucked - but they somehow managed to catch lightning in a bottle with 2K11, so let's talk about it in such a way to make it seem like this team didn't make it lol. I'm sorry but it's tiring. When people in the Madden forum were discussing the reasons why some still held on to games like 2K5 or APF, video proof was produced. Full game video was produced. Audio was produced. You NEVER see that here. Never. If video is produced here it's real life video, as if a videogame is supposed to compare favorably. Or some individual plays strung together, as if it's not possible. It's all talk about how horrible the game is, and how great things used to be. Oh, for one year.

There doesn't have to be video evidence, especially when enough people agree that older games do certain things better..

2K11 was not a perfect game either, there was exploits in that too...sitting under the rim and hitting unblockable layups was one of the worst for me..
But there's things in this game that are inexcusable, teamup not working at all, mycareers being corrupted, having centers literally incapable of rebounding and I can keep going.

People still play the game because it's a good game...but it could be so much better. People come on here to "complain" as everyone likes to say, because we want to see these improvements made, and it could very well become better than 2K11.

[Mr.Smif]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

Again, here comes the hyperbole. You're still playing the game some 8 months after it released. Or at least you were, until you lost 7 games in a row recently - online, no less I think - and declared the game a waste, were trading it in, etc. This is their first attempt on the next gen systems. They were the ONLY sports game developer that attempted to deliver a next gen product out of the gate. And at release, most people were saying they delivered the best playing basketball game to date. I get some people not liking the game's focus on the My-whatever features, or how invasive VC may have been to the overall experience. But again, it's a launch game. I remember during the 360/PS3 launches, a consensus of people here on OS got on 2K for porting their game (2K6) while praising EA for attempting to deliver a next generation basketball engine. And for years showed Live patience in hoping it would blossom into a great game. That's the biggest difference between then and now; then people here showed patience - now those vocal on this forum show mostly indignation towards the game, when the forum collectively was telling 2K the opposite last time the new systems launched (they were called lazy for porting the game). I know part of it is because of this perception 2K's not focusing on the hardcore minorities' priorities enough, but that's something that's occurring throughout gaming as gaming has evolved. Still doesn't justify the vitriol some of you spew, relative to what the game is imo - this forum is mostly doom and gloom. I'm not trying to absolve 2K for their mistakes. But I am tired of the wishy washy whichever way the wind blows nature OS has become. It's comical sometimes the lengths people go to put down the game w/o giving it any credit whatsoever.

Right on man, its catch 22, make too little change and people complain, make too much change and people complain. 2K put forth the most effort by far for a next gen launch title. Other sports games just ported their game over, played it safe. The reason 2K basketball is #1 is because the devs are given so much freedom to basically do anything they want. Next-gen NBA 2K14 is already years ahead of any sports game out their, while other games are keeping status quote 2K is doing things have have never been done before in sports games.

Not to say that this game does not have its problems because it's has a bunch, but for people to act like 2K has no competition when NBA Live is out is just silly, 2K has competition, they are just better than the comp, its not like a Madden situation where people feel another company could do a better job making an NFL game.

[El_Poopador]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

Again, here comes the hyperbole. You're still playing the game some 8 months after it released. Or at least you were, until you lost 7 games in a row recently - online, no less I think - and declared the game a waste, were trading it in, etc. This is their first attempt on the next gen systems. They were the ONLY sports game developer that attempted to deliver a next gen product out of the gate. And at release, most people were saying they delivered the best playing basketball game to date. I get some people not liking the game's focus on the My-whatever features, or how invasive VC may have been to the overall experience. But again, it's a launch game. I remember during the 360/PS3 launches, a consensus of people here on OS got on 2K for porting their game (2K6) while praising EA for attempting to deliver a next generation basketball engine. And for years showed Live patience in hoping it would blossom into a great game. That's the biggest difference between then and now; then people here showed patience - now those vocal on this forum show mostly indignation towards the game, when the forum collectively was telling 2K the opposite last time the new systems launched (they were called lazy for porting the game). I know part of it is because of this perception 2K's not focusing on the hardcore minorities' priorities enough, but that's something that's occurring throughout gaming as gaming has evolved. Still doesn't justify the vitriol some of you spew, relative to what the game is imo - this forum is mostly doom and gloom. I'm not trying to absolve 2K for their mistakes. But I am tired of the wishy washy whichever way the wind blows nature OS has become. It's comical sometimes the lengths people go to put down the game w/o giving it any credit whatsoever.

The problem I have is what it seems their priorities are. They are more focused on flashy, unrealistic modes and things no one really asked for than fixing the core, on-court gameplay. The pick and roll implementation has been lacking for years, since at least 2k9 when I started playing. The spacing has always been horrible, and coupled with the ridiculous amount of contact animations, lack of variations in speed, and sub-par AI, it's very difficult to run a good offensive or defensive set.

But these issues remain in the game, every year, exactly the same, while the hype train goes on about Diamond Kobe. Excuse me if I'm not impressed by flash with no substance.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by El_Poopador

The problem I have is what it seems their priorities are. They are more focused on flashy, unrealistic modes and things no one really asked for than fixing the core, on-court gameplay.

I know part of the problem lies in what some of you perceive as their prioritizing some things over others. That's what I alluded to earlier; where some hardcore take offense to a developer's focus on a broader audience.

All I can say is if I think about it, in releasing a title on a new system it made sense to target the biggest demographic possible, and the route that would make the most sense from a practical and financial standpoint. The game PLAYS simulation style basketball which is by far the most important aspect of a GAME. It's unfortunate some of you allow yourselves to feel put off because they didn't focus enough on the minority's concerns but the fact is the hardcore minority is the smallest and likely the most finicky constituency they have. 2K could've tried to implement 30-team control, a super-hardcore Association mode, etc. and if there was some flaw that made it difficult to get realistic stats past the 3rd season, or some possible million other bugs, the hardcore would've pronounced the feature dead on arrival.

Look at the level of complaining you do now as if they never try to fix a gameplay issue, just because you still see legacy issues in the game. As if every problem is easily solvable. I watched as some longtime posters got banned here because there was a bug in 2K12 where the cpu wouldn't automatically double-team a hot player. And it infuriated some hardcore to the degree where they felt that one issue meant the game could no longer be called a simulation. Something that wasn't discovered until almost a month after the game released. Again, there were longtime posters that got banned over that nonsense.

I'm not saying that's the decision process they made but to me it makes sense. For whatever reason some of the hardcore think the situation should always be a tail wagging the dog situation instead of looking at what's practical for the time.

And it's one !@##$@ launch release. The same complaints don't exist for the last gen game. Maybe, just maybe, it made better sense to try to reach for the broadest audience possible in a shortened release year. Instead of giving the benefit of the doubt, it's "Let's jump down their throats for dissing us"

Quote: Originally Posted by El_Poopador

The pick and roll implementation has been lacking for years, since at least 2k9 when I started playing. The spacing has always been horrible, and coupled with the ridiculous amount of contact animations, lack of variations in speed, and sub-par AI, it's very difficult to run a good offensive or defensive set.

All these things are subpar to you compared to what - another videogame or real life? Because based on your posts, you seem to primarily compare the game to real life. In which it's always going to pale in comparison. A more fair comparison are other basketball games, even other 2K games. I read someone make the comment that [2K's] the best at making basketball games and your reply was [paraphrasing] "That's not saying much". No, it's saying a lot. Unless you can pull out another videogame that's doing it better.

It's okay to compare the game to what occurs in real life. But that's the ultimate goal, not a practical goal in what can be attained at this date and time. It's not like the 2K basketball developers are geniuses that [should] have discovered the secrets to artificial intelligence, physics, etc. on a videogame machine. Expectations should be tempered with what's practical to expect. If they've made the best basketball games to date, they deserve their due. Not someone unrealistically expecting the game to match exactly what they see on tv. You make hundreds of decisions just to decide to walk across a street. Yet the game is supposed to properly reflect the nuances of what occurs in a pick and roll situation? With all ten players "thinking" and reacting to their physical abilities and having it represented properly for whatever given situation? To the degree that they can fool you into believing there's some level of artificial intelligence occurring is something this or any other game should be commended for.

Quote: Originally Posted by El_Poopador

But these issues remain in the game, every year, exactly the same, while the hype train goes on about Diamond Kobe. Excuse me if I'm not impressed by flash with no substance.

You don't have to be impressed. But I'd be curious if you could produce a basketball videogame that's doing/has done things better. How important are these issues if they're never fixing the problems as you claim yet you keep giving them your money?

[Vice]

Somebody get spank a medal.

[thedream2k13]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I know part of the problem lies in what some of you perceive as their prioritizing some things over others. That's what I alluded to earlier; where some hardcore take offense to a developer's focus on a broader audience. All I can say is if I think about it, in releasing a title on a new system it made sense to target the biggest demographic possible, and the route that would make the most sense from a practical and financial standpoint. The game PLAYS simulation style basketball which is by far the most important aspect of a GAME. It's unfortunate some of you allow yourselves to feel put off because they didn't focus enough on the minority's concerns but the fact is the hardcore minority is the smallest and likely the most finicky constituency they have. 2K could've tried to implement 30-team control, a super-hardcore Association mode, etc. and if there was some flaw that made it difficult to get realistic stats past the 3rd season, or some possible million other bugs, the hardcore would've pronounced the feature dead on arrival. Look at the level of complaining you do now as if they never try to fix a gameplay issue, just because you still see legacy issues in the game. As if every problem is easily solvable. I watched as some longtime posters got banned here because there was a bug in 2K12 where the cpu wouldn't automatically double-team a hot player. And it infuriated some hardcore to the degree where they felt that one issue meant the game could no longer be called a simulation. Something that wasn't discovered until almost a month after the game released. Again, there were longtime posters that got banned over that nonsense. I'm not saying that's the decision process they made but to me it makes sense. For whatever reason some of the hardcore think the situation should always be a tail wagging the dog situation instead of looking at what's practical for the time. And it's one !@##$@ launch release. The same complaints don't exist for the last gen game. Maybe, just maybe, it made better sense to try to reach for the broadest audience possible in a shortened release year. Instead of giving the benefit of the doubt, it's "Let's jump down their throats for dissing us" All these things are subpar to you compared to what - another videogame or real life? Because based on your posts, you seem to primarily compare the game to real life. In which it's always going to pale in comparison. A more fair comparison are other basketball games, even other 2K games. I read someone make the comment that [2K's] the best at making basketball games and your reply was [paraphrasing] "That's not saying much". No, it's saying a lot. Unless you can pull out another videogame that's doing it better. It's okay to compare the game to what occurs in real life. But that's the ultimate goal, not a practical goal in what can be attained at this date and time. It's not like the 2K basketball developers are geniuses that [should] have discovered the secrets to artificial intelligence, physics, etc. on a damn videogame machine. Expectations should be tempered with what's practical to expect. If they've made the best basketball games to date, they deserve their due. Not someone unrealistically expecting the game to match exactly what they see on tv. You make hundreds of decisions just to decide to walk across a street. Yet the game is supposed to properly reflect the nuances of what occurs in a pick and roll situation? With all ten players "thinking" and reacting to their physical abilities and having it represented properly for whatever given situation? To the degree that they can fool you into believing there's some level of artificial intelligence occurring is something this or any other game should be commended for. You don't have to be impressed. But I'd be curious if you could produce a basketball videogame that's doing/has done things better. How important are these issues if they're never fixing the problems as you claim yet you keep giving them your money?

wow you been on a hardcore defending 2k rampage SMH, let people voice their opinions without you trying to belittle their comments. 2k has been resting on the laurels for a couple of years now and its clearly seen by thousands of people. There are even 2 youtube videos of a group of kids re-enacting all the bad crap they seein the game and these vids got over a million views with all comments agreeing with their portrayal of the game.

Enjoy your holiday , leave operationsports for the day and go hand out with family or friends. No essays needed on a holiday

[El_Poopador]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I know part of the problem lies in what some of you perceive as their prioritizing some things over others. That's what I alluded to earlier; where some hardcore take offense to a developer's focus on a broader audience. All I can say is if I think about it, in releasing a title on a new system it made sense to target the biggest demographic possible, and the route that would make the most sense from a practical and financial standpoint.

I'm not referring to NBA 2k14 on PS4/XB1 specifically. As I stated, my issues go back to at least 2k9. So it's not "they needed to focus on some other things for the new system launch."

Quote:

The game PLAYS simulation style basketball which is by far the most important aspect of a GAME.

No it does not. When you can't even run plays, that's not simulation style basketball. I don't even need to give any more examples, because that one alone gets that point across.

Quote:

It's unfortunate some of you allow yourselves to feel put off because they didn't focus enough on the minority's concerns but the fact is the hardcore minority is the smallest and likely the most finicky constituency they have. 2K could've tried to implement 30-team control, a super-hardcore Association mode, etc. and if there was some flaw that made it difficult to get realistic stats past the 3rd season, or some possible million other bugs, the hardcore would've pronounced the feature dead on arrival.

Again, you're referring to modes. I am talking about on-court issues. They are hyping having 25 Euroleage teams in the game, yet once they step on the court, every single one of them will play the same, which is the same as all 30 NBA teams. They are going with quantity over quality. I just played a game against the Cavs where Jarrett Jack and Matthew Dellavedova were trying to cross me over like Kyrie Irving. There's no real individuality in how the players play.

Quote:

Look at the level of complaining you do now as if they never try to fix a gameplay issue, just because you still see legacy issues in the game. As if every problem is easily solvable.

I never said every problem is easily solvable. But it would be nice if the focus was on those problems, rather than something trivial like a shoe creator. The bottom line is that they make millions upon millions of dollars to program the game. It is their job. They don't get a free pass from me just because it's not easy.

Quote:

And it's one !@##$@ launch release. The same complaints don't exist for the last gen game. Maybe, just maybe, it made better sense to try to reach for the broadest audience possible in a shortened release year. Instead of giving the benefit of the doubt, it's "Let's jump down their throats for dissing us"

Again, 2k9-2k14 on 360, PS3, and PC have the same issues I am referring to. And it wasn't a shortened release year. The last-gen games came out at the same time as every other year. And it was their choice to release a new version at the launch of the new systems.

Quote:

All these things are subpar to you compared to what - another videogame or real life? Because based on your posts, you seem to primarily compare the game to real life. In which it's always going to pale in comparison. A more fair comparison are other basketball games, even other 2K games.

I have compared to other video games. I have also offered sensible alternatives, referring specifically to the pick and roll. NBA Live 09 had the best pick and roll controls I've ever seen. The main problem with 2k's implementation, which I have mentioned numerous times in other threads, is that you have to make a decision for the roll man before the screen is even set. There is no reacting to the defense; you have to choose before you see how the defense is going to play it.

Quote:

I read someone make the comment that [2K's] the best at making basketball games and your reply was [paraphrasing] "That's not saying much". No, it's saying a lot. Unless you can pull out another videogame that's doing it better.

I enjoyed NBA Live 09 more than 2k9. 2k10 was better than Live 10 to me, and since then, there hasn't been another non-2k NBA game on the market, until this year. So no, it isn't saying much that 2k is the "best." They have been the only game the last few years. By the same token I can say Madden is the best NFL game.

Quote:

It's okay to compare the game to what occurs in real life. But that's the ultimate goal, not a practical goal in what can be attained at this date and time. It's not like the 2K basketball developers are geniuses that [should] have discovered the secrets to artificial intelligence, physics, etc. on a damn videogame machine. Expectations should be tempered with what's practical to expect.

This is where I have the issue. I'm well aware that it's not practical to expect perfection, nor do I expect all of the game's issues to be fixed in a single development cycle. But it goes back to my original point, which is where their priorities lie. It doesn't seem like they're trying to make strides in those areas at all. They hyped up footplanting on the new systems, but it's still the same as it was on the old systems.

Quote:

If they've made the best basketball games to date, they deserve their due. Not someone unrealistically expecting the game to match exactly what they see on tv. You make hundreds of decisions just to decide to walk across a street. Yet the game is supposed to properly reflect the nuances of what occurs in a pick and roll situation? With all ten players "thinking" and reacting to their physical abilities and having it represented properly for whatever given situation? To the degree that they can fool you into believing there's some level of artificial intelligence occurring is something this or any other game should be commended for.

Actually, I'm not fooled into thinking there's any artificial intelligence. That's my point. Things like psychic defense, which responds to button inputs rather than what's actually happening on the court, is one of my biggest issues with the game. Those are the things they should be striving to improve, but since it's not a back of the box feature, it goes largely unchecked.

Again, I am not in any way, shape, or form saying it's easy, or should be perfect by next year. But it would be nice to see strides in the right direction. Or, if there's something they can't accomplish, just to outright explain why. That would go a very long way.

Quote:

You don't have to be impressed. But I'd be curious if you could produce a basketball videogame that's doing/has done things better. How important are these issues if they're never fixing the problems as you claim yet you keep giving them your money?

I suppose I just keep hoping that it will get better. Maybe if they see the same complaints year after year, they might catch on and address them.