NBA 2K15 - Spurs Ratings

[ojandpizza]

Tim Duncan going on 38 years old is not close to what Davis is, he can no longer carry a team on his own the way an elite level player can.. A statistical rating cannot reflect that. There is a reason he only plays part of the games and under 30 minutes per game. Per 36 minute stats mean almost nothing here, you can find lots of players and use their 36 per minutes stats to make them look better than someone else, let's not get carried away here..

By the logic used on Duncan there is no reason guys like Wade, Dirk, etc shouldn't also be rated super high.. Just sayin.


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[J_Posse]

Quote: Originally Posted by ojandpizza

Tim Duncan going on 38 years old is not close to what Davis is, he can no longer carry a team on his own the way an elite level player can.. A statistical rating cannot reflect that. There is a reason he only plays part of the games and under 30 minutes per game. Per 36 minute stats mean almost nothing here, you can find lots of players and use their 36 per minutes stats to make them look better than someone else, let's not get carried away here.. By the logic used on Duncan there is no reason guys like Wade, Dirk, etc shouldn't also be rated super high.. Just sayin. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, there is a big difference because both Wade and Nowitzki have lost a bit do to age while Duncan has rediscovered his game after a 2 or 3 year slump. Wade can't play a full season and his defensive impact (check his BPG, SPG and Defensive rating as evidence) isn't even what it was two seasons ago, while Nowitzki's rebounding rate/per game average have plummeted and his defense - both team and individual - has deteriorated back to the early 2000's level.

Duncan is still an elite interior defender, rebounder, is an excellent passer and has possibly the highest IQ in the league. He can't play huge minutes over the course of a long season, but that is reflected through his stamina rating, and he isn't a huge offensive threat any longer. His other weakness (lack of mobility/athleticism) is masked by having a good all - around/play making/stretch "4" like Diaw and the great positional/team defense plus savvy offense (underrated passer) of Tiago Splitter.

Duncan was the most durable, consistent and best player on the eventual NBA champions so I can see his rating being so high. Especially when some of those categories would lead to a high rating (rebounding, play making, defense, two way and all around) for him.

Davis himself isn't an elite scorer and mostly scores by facing up, driving (athleticism advantage), off tip-ins and taking a pull up/mid range jumper. Yet, he's still physically weak and can be bullied on the block. His passing, post scoring, play making and understanding of the game aren't at Duncan's level, yet.



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[Real2KInsider]

Quote: Originally Posted by J_Posse

He's also a better passer, has a higher basketball I.Q. (how you have them even is beyond me, Rashidi) and is stronger in the low post. If Davis can become a better low post scorer (he's strictly a face up player as of now), work on his passing and overall physical strength than he'll surpass Timmy soon enough. Amazing that a 38 year old - with an absurd amount of mileage - like Timmy can still hang with the young pups.

Davis
26.5 PER - 4th in NBA
10.4 WS in 67 games - 14th in NBA (.212 WS/48 - 7th in NBA)
58 TS% on 25 USG%
8 AST%
10 ORB%
23 DRB%
2.0 STL%
6.7 BLK% - 1st in NBA

Duncan
21.3 PER
7.4 WS in 74 games (.164 WS/48)
54 TS% on 25 USG%
16 AST%
9 ORB%
28 DRB%
1.0 STL%
4.6 BLK%

Duncan has a ton of help with three all-star caliber teammates and a deep bench. Davis' top teammate Tyreke Davis would be the 5th best player on the Spurs.

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Synergy Defense

Davis
100% Overall 0.84
32% Post 0.81
31% Spot 0.97
17% Iso 0.73
13% Roll 0.79
3% On-Ball PNR 0.80

Duncan
100% Overall 0.82
41% Post 0.79
23% Spot 0.83
21% Roll 0.79
12% Iso 0.97
0% On-Ball PNR N/A (seriously, not even one possession through season & playoffs)

Duncan is better equipped to guard centers but that's because he is a "power forward" in name only. Davis guards a wider array of players while Duncan is limited to the post and is too slow to guard any PF with a shred of athletic ability.

Either way, they are in the same tier defensively, very good but not elite.


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Synergy Offense

Davis
100% Overall 1.05
19% Roll 1.12
14% Post 0.88
13% OffReb 1.27
13% Spot 0.79
11% Iso 0.87
10% Cut 1.24
9% Transition 1.53 (4th in NBA)
6% Screen 0.92

Duncan
100% Overall 0.95
31% Post 0.93
21% Roll 0.94
15% Cut 1.21
11% Spot 0.77
8% OffReb 1.27
5% Transition 1.18
2% Iso 0.64

On-ball Offense (PnR Ball Handler, Post, Iso)
Davis: 25% of Offense, 0.88 PPP
Duncan: 34% of Offense, 0.90 PPP

Davis is vastly better in the pick and roll and transition due to his superior athleticism.
Duncan is better with the ball in his hands but his advantage is not so large that it cancels out the other two-thirds of offense that Davis is either just as good or better at.

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In summary, I don't put Duncan ahead of younger franchise players like Love, Davis, or even Blake Griffin. Duncan's offense just isn't elite anymore (ONLY in the post). It's not a knock on Duncan to say that Love/Davis/Griffin not to mention Howard/Dirk/Aldridge could win a championship if they had the Spurs core behind them.

[J_Posse]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

Davis 26.5 PER - 4th in NBA 10.4 WS in 67 games - 14th in NBA (.212 WS/48 - 7th in NBA) 58 TS% on 25 USG% 8 AST% 10 ORB% 23 DRB% 2.0 STL% 6.7 BLK% - 1st in NBA Duncan 21.3 PER 7.4 WS in 74 games (.164 WS/48) 54 TS% on 25 USG% 16 AST% 9 ORB% 28 DRB% 1.0 STL% 4.6 BLK% Duncan has a ton of help with three all-star caliber teammates and a deep bench. Davis' top teammate Tyreke Davis would be the 5th best player on the Spurs. Synergy Defense Davis 100% Overall 0.84 32% Post 0.81 31% Spot 0.97 17% Iso 0.73 13% Roll 0.79 3% On-Ball PNR 0.80 Duncan 100% Overall 0.82 41% Post 0.79 23% Spot 0.83 21% Roll 0.79 12% Iso 0.97 0% On-Ball PNR N/A (seriously, not even one possession through season & playoffs) Duncan is better equipped to guard centers but that's because he is a "power forward" in name only. Davis guards a wider array of players while Duncan is limited to the post and is too slow to guard any PF with a shred of athletic ability. Either way, they are in the same tier defensively, very good but not elite. Synergy Offense Davis 100% Overall 1.05 19% Roll 1.12 14% Post 0.88 13% OffReb 1.27 13% Spot 0.79 11% Iso 0.87 10% Cut 1.24 9% Transition 1.53 (4th in NBA) 6% Screen 0.92 Duncan 100% Overall 0.95 31% Post 0.93 21% Roll 0.94 15% Cut 1.21 11% Spot 0.77 8% OffReb 1.27 5% Transition 1.18 2% Iso 0.64 On-ball Offense (PnR Ball Handler, Post, Iso) Davis: 25% of Offense, 0.88 PPP Duncan: 34% of Offense, 0.90 PPP Davis is vastly better in the pick and roll and transition due to his superior athleticism. Duncan is better with the ball in his hands but his advantage is not so large that it cancels out the other two-thirds of offense that Davis is either just as good or better at.

Who is the 4th all - star caliber player on the Spurs? From my estimation the team only has 3 (Parker, Leonard & Duncan) such players.

I think Davis will definitely be the better player, if he isn't already, by season's end but I think everyone is actually understating the impact Duncan had last year. Parker, Leonard, Green, Splitter and Ginobili all missed significant time this past season while Parker, Green and Leonard - to be honest Duncan too - struggled to find their offensive rhythm through parts of the season. Davis also has struggled with staying healthy and on the court.

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[Real2KInsider]

Quote: Originally Posted by J_Posse

No, there is a big difference because both Wade and Nowitzki have lost a bit do to age while Duncan has rediscovered his game after a 2 or 3 year slump.

Dirk literally had his best season since the 2011 championship season.

Duncan was All-NBA 1st team last year in the "rejuvenation" year that you mention, but he slipped back this year and posted the worst statistical season of his career.

PER (Change from 2013)
26.9 Kevin Love (+9.0)
26.5 Anthony Davis (+4.8)
26.1 DeMarcus Cousins (+5.9)
23.9 Blake Griffin (+1.5)
23.6 Dirk Nowitzki (+3.8)
22.7 Al Jefferson (+1.8)
22.6 Andre Drummond (+1.0)
21.8 LaMarcus Aldridge (+1.4)
21.3 Dwight Howard (+1.9)
21.3 Tim Duncan (-3.1)
20.0 Joakim Noah (+1.9)

You might notice Duncan is the only one of the league's top bigs whose arrow moved in the wrong direction which makes the idea of him as a top 4 player a stretch, regardless of how valuable his intangibles arguably are.

PER isn't the end all-be all but it's clear that he isn't relied on anywhere close to as heavily as other bigs. The coaches did not name Duncan an All-Star or select him to an All-NBA team - a far cry from his First team status in 2013. Duncan finished TWELFTH in MVP voting. There was a reason for all of this. If he's really 4th in rating behind SUPERSTARS who contribute 20 wins to their team by their lonesome (LeBron, Durant, Paul) that is frankly a mistake.

The Spurs win because of incredible depth. Not because one individual has a game-breaking impact (though that was certainly the case from 1999-2007).

[Real2KInsider]

Quote: Originally Posted by J_Posse

Who is the 4th all - star caliber player on the Spurs? From my estimation the team only has 3 (Parker, Leonard & Duncan) such players.

Ginobili, obviously.

[ojandpizza]

Duncan played 33 minutes per game during the playoffs. He's just not the same "team carrying" dominant player he once was.. He's still great obviously, and still does lots of things well, but it's hard to put him ahead of guys who are focal point players and borderline dominant, while he's basically regressed to playing off of Parker, to an extent even Kawhi.

Obviously he does lots of things well, we can say he passes better than someone like Davis, but he can't play the passing lanes like Davis or Blake and get a steal, beat everyone up the court and score.. For every area Duncan is ahead of those guys on they are equally ahead of him in another.. While still being 20+ and 10+ focal point players..

The way you described Duncan's skills should make someone like Marc Gasol equally rated to him.

I'm going to assume all of the IQ ratings give him quite a large boost on his overall


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[turty11]

did someone just call turnobli all-star caliber?

bruh....this aint 2010

you also put way to much stock into PER imo

--like i said, duncans IQ gets him the 90...hes not even the best player on his team