Timeout Menu is horrible

[Hustle Westbrook]

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

@10:05 to 10:12. "It's only going to last for a couple of possession and then ACE takes over" @10:15 - 10:30 "If you want to be in control at all times, you'll need to turn ACE off"

My ACE is always turned off. Matter of fact it's set to Off by default yet every game I have to manually go and turn it Off because it turns itself back On.

[Marty Funkhouser]

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

@10:05 to 10:12. "It's only going to last for a couple of possession and then ACE takes over" @10:15 - 10:30 "If you want to be in control at all times, you'll need to turn ACE off"

Dude, it does not work regardless if ace is turned off.

[strawberryshortcake]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hustle Westbrook

My ACE is always turned off. Matter of fact it's set to Off by default yet every game I have to manually go and turn it Off because it turns itself back On.

Quote: Originally Posted by Marty Funkhouser

Dude, it does not work regardless if ace is turned off.

Quote: Originally Posted by thormessiah

Not true because I turn ACE off before the start of each game and still get the default POEs after a few minutes.

Then that's a bug, not an interface issue. All three of your concern is that it doesn't respond. Is that an interface issue? The same with the substitution bug. There's a difference between the interface and whether the commands work or not.

[Marty Funkhouser]

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

Then that's a bug, not an interface issue. All three of your concern is that it doesn't respond. Is that an interface issue? The same with the substitution bug. There's a difference between the interface and whether the commands work or not.

Then what about the fact that you can't do mass substitutions from the timeout menu? that's a design flaw

or the fact that with the on the fly menu, it disappears after only one decision? that's a design flaw?

Or the fact that overall it is not nearly as responsive, accessibly or intuitive as past 2Ks? that's a design flaw.

the time out menu and OTF menus are meant to be used for the user to be able to make quick, timely adjustments to respond to the flow of the game, everything from the dial design to the right stick inputs are stpes away from that. The additional features are nice but mean nothing because of the cumbersome UI. It's flash over function.

[Hustle Westbrook]

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

Then that's a bug, not an interface issue. All three of your concern is that it doesn't respond. Is that an interface issue? The same with the substitution bug. There's a difference between the interface and whether the commands work or not.

I know it's a bug, I never said it was an interface issue.

[strawberryshortcake]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hustle Westbrook

I know it's a bug, I never said it was an interface issue.

I had to go test this out, start a game, turn off NBA2k17, refire up 2k17, start a game, tried hitting the rematch button, finished a 12 minute quarter x 4 quarter game, and start another game, and my ACE is still turned off in all cases.

Did you turn off ACE in the main/home setting screen rather than during the in game setting screen?

That's why it took so long to respond.

Quote: Originally Posted by Marty Funkhouser

Then what about the fact that you can't do mass substitutions from the timeout menu? that's a design flaw or the fact that with the on the fly menu, it disappears after only one decision? that's a design flaw? Or the fact that overall it is not nearly as responsive, accessibly or intuitive as past 2Ks? that's a design flaw. the time out menu and OTF menus are meant to be used for the user to be able to make quick, timely adjustments to respond to the flow of the game, everything from the dial design to the right stick inputs are stpes away from that. The additional features are nice but mean nothing because of the cumbersome UI. It's flash over function.

Point 1
What is your definition of "mass substitution"? You can toggle between starters, bench, free throw unit, tall unit, three point specialist, etc. by simply pressing L1 or R1. We're all in agreement that the timeout screen has a bug. It doesn't sub anyone in despite making the substitutions, but the way to sub someone in and out seem very intuitive to me. Left stick to highlight the player on the court, right stick to sub in a bench player, pretty intuitive.

Point 2
What was your take on NBA2k16 on the fly menu? Did you like 2k16's because I just tested it out and it also disappears once you call a play. The following is from 2k16. The 2k16 picture below has 4 quick plays. Were you trying to do more than one play at back to back without having the screen disappear, because the screen actually completely disappears in 2k16 as well once you decide on one play.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4tumke



Point 3
You're saying that it's not responsive (this is a bug if it's not responding to your command). Accessibility is there if the user simply tries to understand it. Just because it looks different doesn't mean it's not accessible. I'm figuring it out, other people are figuring it out. There's a method to it.



Timeout screen: (there's essentially two or three major sections) and that's it.

Offense/Defense (sets & adjustments)
L1 or R1 to switch to offense or defensive adjustments/sets.
Offense screen: triangle for (sets); square for (adjustments)
Defense screen: triangle for (sets); square for (adjustments).

That's the basic gist.

Substitution screen:
Move your left stick to highlight a player. Press R2 to bring up substitution menu.

That's the basic gist.


Are you telling me that 2k16 is easier to grasp than 2k17's radial pie chart? Present this specific photograph to one of your family member and see which one is easier to understand.


What do you propose to be a better method than the visual clock dial when it comes to on the fly adjustments because everytime I keep trying to call a play in 2k16, I have to keep seeing whether I have to push up, down, left or right on the right stick. 2k17 is such a breeze because of the radial clock dial.

[Marty Funkhouser]

Quote: Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake

I had to go test this out, start a game, turn off NBA2k17, refire up 2k17, start a game, tried hitting the rematch button, finished a 12 minute quarter x 4 quarter game, and start another game, and my ACE is still turned off in all cases. Did you turn off ACE in the main/home setting screen rather than during the in game setting screen? That's why it took so long to respond. Point 1 What is your definition of "mass substitution"? You can toggle between starters, bench, free throw unit, tall unit, three point specialist, etc. by simply pressing L1 or R1. We're all in agreement that the timeout screen has a bug. It doesn't sub anyone in despite making the substitutions, but the way to sub someone in and out seem very intuitive to me. Left stick to highlight the player on the court, right stick to sub in a bench player, pretty intuitive. Point 2 What was your take on NBA2k16 on the fly menu? Did you like 2k16's because I just tested it out and it also disappears once you call a play. The following is from 2k16. The 2k16 picture below has 4 quick plays. Were you trying to do more than one play at back to back without having the screen disappear, because the screen actually completely disappears in 2k16 as well once you decide on one play. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4tumke Point 3 You're saying that it's not responsive (this is a bug if it's not responding to your command). Accessibility is there if the user simply tries to understand it. Just because it looks different doesn't mean it's not accessible. I'm figuring it out, other people are figuring it out. There's a method to it. Timeout screen: (there's essentially two or three major sections) and that's it. Offense/Defense (sets & adjustments) L1 or R1 to switch to offense or defensive adjustments/sets. Offense screen: triangle for (sets); square for (adjustments) Defense screen: triangle for (sets); square for (adjustments). That's the basic gist. Substitution screen: Move your left stick to highlight a player. Press R2 to bring up substitution menu. That's the basic gist. Are you telling me that 2k16 is easier to grasp than 2k17's radial pie chart? Present this specific photograph to one of your family member and see which one is easier to understand. What do you propose to be a better method than the visual clock dial when it comes to on the fly adjustments because everytime I keep trying to call a play in 2k16, I have to keep seeing whether I have to push up, down, left or right on the right stick. 2k17 is such a breeze because of the radial clock dial.

point 1
in the timeout menu there's no way to substitute all your players all at once you have to manually sub out each player and mass subs can only be done via the start menu, or in the on the fly menu.
I don't believe the dial menu is intuitive as due to the size and orientation you have to take in more information to make a decision. Maybe it's just me but I find it cumbersome and a simple linear top down list would be more effective.

point 2
No I was not a fan of 2k16's design changes either but it was better than this year's.
When I'm talking about "making a decision"

In 2K17 when, for example, adjusting the POEs, if I select "No Threes" the OTF menu disappears.

In 2k16, I can change every single POE on offense and defense without the menu disappearing allowing me the adjust my entire gameplan in 5-8 seconds.

- I can manually sub out each individual player without the menu closing. In 2K17, the menu closes and opens for each player I want to sub out and not all the subs I want to make are in the preset lineups nor do I want to have to customize each lineup pregame as that was not necessary in previous entries.

point 3
Regarding accessibility, it's taken a step back, it's not about learning the system but more about the ease of learning. In 2K pre-2k16 the way the information was presented was in a line straight forward manner.

It's straight forward and to the point, as someone who has never played 2k they could understand which buttons corresponded to plays, how to go to the next slide of plays.
There was no learning curve.

I cannot stress this enough, the point of a UX is to be as effective as possible, you shouldn't have to learn how to navigate menus.

Quote:

Substitution screen: Move your left stick to highlight a player. Press R2 to bring up substitution menu.

I mean, doesn't that sound a bit excessive just to sub a player out?

Doesn't just a bringing up a sub menu and making all your subs there sound more intuitive?

As far as a solution, I've said it before, give the option. You already have options on how complicated the UI overlay for playvision. Have one for the OTF and timeout menus.

For users like myself who value responsiveness and accessibility over everything have a UI that's linear and in list format. For those who prefer the dial design, they can use that.

[Marty Funkhouser]

Also, I have ACE turned off in my main coaching settings screen but yet for every single play now match, it's turned back on. But 2k settings actually being saved is a whole other can of worms...