Are standing shots really that much more potent than moving shots? (SC related)

[Caelumfang]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jesus_Swagglesworth

Hmm, personally I never take standing shots unless it's a catch and shoot in the corner. In most other catch & shoot situations I can usually take a quick turbo dribble and then trigger a quick fade animation before any closeout or contest happens. My shot creator is a pg so I avoid finishing inside on fastbreaks to avoid the inevitable chasedown blocks. If I have to go inside i'll try to trigger the quickest dunk animation or a floater. I'd say moving shots are still the most effective for me in every situation so unless I can't trigger an animation i feel comfortable potentially greening, i'll take another route. Maybe like 80% of my shots are moving regardless of situation. I prefer short jumpers over slow layups/dunks lol. Are you triggering super slow moving animations? I noticed that even when completely wide open and full white bar these things miss more often than not. I think some (most?) of the animations are broken but I found my niche animations with normal 4 package.

With my Shot Creator, I'd shoot a mix of catch & shoot standing shots and moving shots, depending on the situation. This is why I say I was able to compare makes vs misses from both aspects.

My moving shot animation was a decent speed (Elite 11 pull up jumper). However, it was brick city more often than not unless it was green or my grand badge was activated. Spin jumpers (Stiff 3) and the reverse stepback (holding back on the left stick and holding square) were probably the most effective moving shots for me after the last two shooting tweaks. Hope Jumper Normal 14's stepback shot option used to be water for me at any point, but became as dry as a desert.

However, catch and shoot midranges/3s were still more effective for me more often than not after the tweaks. I'd go on streaks of missing 4-5 butt naked open moving midranges in a row, but somehow make the next 2-3 shots as standing shots. And I'm talking all game, game after game.

Needless to say, after a couple weeks of this, my 2k disc is now in multiple pieces and in the garbage.

[Jesus_Swagglesworth]

Quote: Originally Posted by Caelumfang

With my Shot Creator, I'd shoot a mix of catch & shoot standing shots and moving shots, depending on the situation. This is why I say I was able to compare makes vs misses from both aspects. My moving shot animation was a decent speed (Elite 11 pull up jumper). However, it was brick city more often than not unless it was green or my grand badge was activated. Spin jumpers (Stiff 3) and the reverse stepback (holding back on the left stick and holding square) were probably the most effective moving shots for me after the last two shooting tweaks. Hope Jumper Normal 14's stepback shot option used to be water for me at any point, but became as dry as a desert. However, catch and shoot midranges/3s were still more effective for me more often than not after the tweaks. I'd go on streaks of missing 3-5 butt naked open moving midranges in a row, but somehow make the next 2-3 shots as standing shots. Needless to say, after a couple weeks of this, my 2k disc is now in multiple pieces and in the garbage.

Yeah i've been taking the occasional standstills throughout the whole year and i've always had good success with them. I just assumed it was like that because shooting in general was good lol. Usually avoid them regardless because why not trigger the 93 rating?

I also noticed that pull-ups were kind of meh in terms of success. If you try to straight forward pull up from 3 you see the meter shrinks to something that looks like a 60-70 rating meter. And a lot of the standing shots also have a huge meter lol.

I just normally avoid the pull-up and throw it in as a mix-up for when the defender sags off way too much or goes under picks. I also try to avoid the spin jumpers or stepbacks as often as I can. Never really been able to green those personally. They work but eh, I rather take the 50/50 chance at a green.

The shot animation i try to trigger the most is this one at 2mins 10 secs:

Spoiler

it has always been an automatic green throughout every update.

[Caelumfang]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jesus_Swagglesworth

Yeah i've been taking the occasional standstills throughout the whole year and i've always had good success with them. I just assumed it was like that because shooting in general was good lol. Usually avoid them regardless because why not trigger the 93 rating? I also noticed that pull-ups were kind of meh in terms of success. If you try to straight forward pull up from 3 you see the meter shrinks to something that looks like a 60-70 rating meter. And a lot of the standing shots also have a huge meter lol. I just normally avoid the pull-up and throw it in as a mix-up for when the defender sags off way too much or goes under picks. I also try to avoid the spin jumpers or stepbacks as often as I can. Never really been able to green those personally. They work but eh, I rather take the 50/50 chance at a green. The shot animation i try to trigger the most is this one at 2mins 10 secs: Spoiler it has always been an automatic green throughout every update.

When I say 'pull-up', I'm talking about both it and the fade shot in general.

Thing is, for a Shot Creator, pull-ups and fades should NOT be 'meh', and that's the point I've been getting at all along. Neither should spin jumpers or stepbacks. But, for some stupid reason, they are. As a Shot Creator, they shouldn't HAVE to second guess any of their moving shots as long as they're open. See what I'm saying? It's backwards as hell. You should be able to have just as much confidence pulling a fade/pull-up/stepback/spin jumper as you do with that shot at 2:10.

SCs are really the only archetype who has to second guess their own freakin' primary source of offense.

[Jesus_Swagglesworth]

Quote: Originally Posted by Caelumfang

When I say 'pull-up', I'm talking about both it and the fade shot in general. Thing is, for a Shot Creator, pull-ups and fades should NOT be 'meh', and that's the point I've been getting at all along. Neither should spin jumpers or stepbacks. But, for some stupid reason, they are. As a Shot Creator, they shouldn't HAVE to second guess any of their moving shots as long as they're open. See what I'm saying? It's backwards as hell. You should be able to have just as much confidence pulling a fade/pull-up/stepback/spin jumper as you do with that shot at 2:10. SCs are really the only archetype who has to second guess their own freakin' primary source of offense.

Yea i feel you. A lot of the animations are just seemingly broken all around. When I can't green an animation, it's a death sentence imo. Full white bar shots from that same shot are damn near guaranteed misses.

Your complaints are warranted, but regardless the archetype is powerful. IMO if everything worked the way it was supposed to, there would be a ridiculous amount of crying in feedback lol. Would be nerfed to death eventually

Even given the fact that a lot of shot types don't work, we still have more options than any other archetype. I just came in cause I didn't like general attitude ITT from others that the archetype was bad lol. Just try to make the most of the given options, and imo it's still the best. The ability to hit shots without having to set the shooters feet is an uncomparable pressure on the D


¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Caelumfang]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jesus_Swagglesworth

Yea i feel you. A lot of the animations are just seemingly broken all around. When I can't green an animation, it's a death sentence imo. Full white bar shots from that same shot are damn near guaranteed misses. Your complaints are warranted, but regardless the archetype is powerful. IMO if everything worked the way it was supposed to, there would be a ridiculous amount of crying in feedback lol. Would be nerfed to death eventually Even given the fact that a lot of shot types don't work, we still have more options than any other archetype. I just came in cause I didn't like general attitude ITT from others that the archetype was bad lol. Just try to make the most of the given options, and imo it's still the best. The ability to hit shots without having to set the shooters feet is an uncomparable pressure on the D ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't think anyone was saying it's a bad archetype. Hell, if played properly, they can be the most frustrating perimeter player to guard outside of the Playmaker. Problem is, there's just so much working AGAINST Shot Creators through patches and tweaks, it can sometimes be unfair on them when compared to the other archetypes. It literally got to a point that I didn't fear a single SC after the latest tweak, and that's sad.

Hell, I was in love with the Shot Creator archetype. That is, until I found out that standing shots hit more consistently than moving shots after the tweaks, and that's insane. It all lead up to me snapping my disc because of it.

[Jesus_Swagglesworth]

Quote: Originally Posted by Caelumfang

I don't think anyone was saying it's a bad archetype.

I see it differently lol. Maybe i'm quick on the gun but I see it here, reddit, twitter etc.

Quote: Originally Posted by Caelumfang

Hell, if played properly, they can be the most frustrating perimeter player to guard outside of the Playmaker. Problem is, there's just so much working AGAINST Shot Creators through patches and tweaks, it can sometimes be unfair on them when compared to the other archetypes. It literally got to a point that I didn't fear a single SC after the latest tweak, and that's sad. Hell, I was in love with the Shot Creator archetype. That is, until I found out that standing shots hit more consistently than moving shots after the tweaks, and that's insane. It all lead up to me snapping my disc because of it.

Yea i understand the frustration with some things not working. I never fear SC's either because no one plays it properly.

Simply sticking to what works is what makes it dangerous. It's not aesthetically pleasing or what you'd expect from an SC, but like I said in my OP, i haven't noticed a drop in effectiveness because I just stick with pull-up fades & drifters. Everything else is redundant or just unnecessary to me. I see how that can get boring tho lol.

[Caelumfang]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jesus_Swagglesworth

I see it differently lol. Maybe i'm quick on the gun but I see it here, reddit, twitter etc. Yea i understand the frustration with some things not working. I never fear SC's either because no one plays it properly. Simply sticking to what works is what makes it dangerous. It's not aesthetically pleasing or what you'd expect from an SC, but like I said in my OP, i haven't noticed a drop in effectiveness because I just stick with pull-up fades & drifters. Everything else is redundant or just unnecessary to me. I see how that can get boring tho lol.

To me, the unpredictability is what made SCs dangerous. You may feel differently than I do, but I feel like most people don't know to play it properly because they don't know how to utilize all of the shots in their arsenal. A SC that only uses fades/pull-ups become insanely easy to guard as the game goes on. One that knows how to use fades, pull-ups, hop jumpers, BOTH stepback variatons, side-step jumpers, floaters and spin jumpers in the right way become a nightmare to guard, because they're unpredictable.

The fact that you have admitted that you limit your arsenal to only one or two types of moving shots should tell you that something is off about Shot Creators. And it shouldn't be that way, which has been the point all along.

[Jesus_Swagglesworth]

Quote: Originally Posted by Caelumfang

To me, the unpredictability is what made SCs dangerous. You may feel differently than I do, but I feel like most people don't know to play it properly because they don't know how to utilize all of the shots in their arsenal. A SC that only uses fades/pull-ups become insanely easy to guard as the game goes on. One that knows how to use fades, pull-ups, hop jumpers, BOTH stepback variatons, side-step jumpers, floaters and spin jumpers in the right way become a nightmare to guard, because they're unpredictable. The fact that you have admitted that you limit your arsenal to only one or two types of moving shots should tell you that something is off about Shot Creators. And it shouldn't be that way, which has been the point all along.

yep, I feel you. My experience is this: I intentionally limit myself to the fades & drifters because it creates the most space, is the fastest animation, and has a good chance of green.

I see no reason to be unpredictable when the simplest options are unstoppable. At no point in the year have i ever felt like i was easy to shut down or too predictable. I'm the primary ballhandler & scorer on my team so i'm high volume attempts & scoring.

On-ball D is annoyingly bad and the defender needs to be on the hip all game to contest fades/drifting pull-ups... and then zone D is automatically shredded by any SC moves in general. Unstoppable archetype

thats my stance, agree to disagree i suppose. I do agree that the other shot options should work better, but i'm a tryhard and I stick with whats overpowered lol.
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