You just cannot make shots right in front of AI's face.

[leoribas3]

Quote: Originally Posted by BeerPoisoning

Honestly, I see what you’re saying about comparing real basketball. I think you’re right and wrong in some aspects and I enjoy a good civil debate, so let’s dig deeper and look at advanced NBA stats for this current season. I’ll pick some superstars and random good 3pt shooters who have taken plenty shots in all categories. We’ll lay out the real NBA stats and talk about how 2K translates it on medium (All-Star) difficulty. (I’d include 2pt FG% but that includes layups/dunks so the mid-range shot% would be inaccurate) Wide open 3pt% (closest defender 4-6+ feet) KD 43% - Harden 42% - Thompson 42% - Curry 41% - Tatum 31% - Ingles 34% - Kyrie 37% - Redick 38% - Kemba 33% - Hield 38% - CP3 38% - Otto 40% - Korver 44% I think we can both agree that if you know the release of X player mentioned above, you’re likely going to make 75% of these open shots in 2K while in the real NBA the probability of the shot falling is roughly a 30-40% decrease. You mentioned lowering shot success, I can agree that would make it much more realistic. I know your slider objective is making 2K as realistic as possible. But you run the offense, play is set and you kick to the open man... Would you honestly be satisfied if that shot was made 3 or 4 out of 10 attempts? I think 2K designed this success rate higher to appease the community. Especially since they profit a ton off of online players (VC purchases), they’d lose business. Nobody playing online would find satisfaction in missing more than half of open smart-shot decisions. Online or offline, majority want to be rewarded for a good play and shot selection. Relating open NBA shot% into the game would virtually be the gameplay engine flipping a coin on every open shot with a slight favor towards tails (miss) — If you or others truly want it to be like that, you’re entitled to making it that way and I apologize for bashing sliders. But, I still think 95% of the community would disagree with adjusting 2K’s open shot logic. Medium contest 3pt% (closest defender 2-4 feet) KD 39% - Harden 30% - Thompson 36% - Curry 43% - Tatum 41% - Ingles 12% - Kyrie 40% - Redick 37% - Kemba 38% - Hield 26% - CP3 14% - Otto 46% - Korver 38% Ingles and CP3 have some ugly percentages in this category so I don’t know what to make of that. Otherwise, I think these percentages cleanly depict a light or late contest. However, 2K screws average rated 3PT shooters in this category. Plenty of subpar shooters make lightly contested shots regularly. I think the difference is the deep range deadeye badge. Superstars and elite sharp shooters mostly have it on gold, HOF for Steph/Klay. Most average guys don’t carry it. The activation of that badge boosts shot % which allows the elite players to nail it. This is why I think tampering with sliders takes away from the real basketball the offline community wants. Instead of sliders, the more realistic approach is adding a silver deep range badge on the average shooters. I usually wouldn’t condone changing the way 2K designs a player but this actually makes sense. Tight contest 3pt% (closest defender 0-2 feet) Every player listed besides Curry has taken less than 10 shots other than Kemba 5/28 18%. KD is 50% but 4 attempts isn’t enough to paint a clear picture. Curry is around his other averages at 38% but I think we can both agree that he’s from another planet when it comes to shooting. This is exactly why you only get away with shooting poor shot selections once in a blue moon. In the real NBA, defenders typically don’t smother the ball-handler. Usually like 3 feet of space is given. While smothering doesn’t allow the offensive player to cleanly shoot the ball, it does allow them to drive and blow past the defender. That approach would be a death sentence against guys like Kyrie, KD, Harden or even Curry. That 3 feet of given space allows these players to pull up and begin their release a second before the defense reacts which is why the shot contest is light to them. By time the player actually releases the ball it may *LOOK* heavily contested but that 1-second advantage on the pull up these guys have risen and locked their eyes on the rim ready to release. It hardly phases them. Which is why the percentages in the last category are relatively close to most of their open percentages. These guys have played roughly 50 games this season and have pulled up with no space VERY few times, less than once a game. I’d bet to say that majority of those smothered attempts were demanded by the dwindling shot clock. In 2K you can’t just pull straight up in the face of a defender who is practically touching you and get away with it BECAUSE they don’t get away with it either. You mentioned looking up highlights. You can find highlights of players making highly contested shots, you’re right! But - that’s why they’re highlights, because it’s rare. Nobody in the NBA makes smothered jump shots at an efficient rate. If shooting smothered shots was efficient, these superstars would have more than 10 or 20 attempts after 50 games. Maybe set the CPU defense on-ball setting to “moderate” to resemble NBA defense. But moving the shot success slider is totally going to opposite direction of “real basketball” Disclaimer: Steph Curry is a super human basketball player, anything said in the last 2 paragraphs doesn’t pertain to him. He’s living in his own world. Thoughts? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think you brought up some really interesting points. Again I must say I pretty much agree with everything you said.
I think that there are some things to be considered when we define what a “shot in the face of the defender” is. As you mentioned, 0-2 feet of space in the real NBA results mostly in very low percentage shots, and thats undisputable. Smothered shots dont go in and shouldn’t go in on 2k either.
In my point of view, whats really in question is what you mentioned in your second to last paragraph. In the game, that 1 second window, if that, in which these players manage to trick defenders and pull off their shots, is hard to recreate, and I think that 2k kinda fails in that regard considering the default settings. Thats why in my opinion a tweak in the defensive sliders results in a more realistic experience.

Add to that the fact that its a game based on animations and a lot of them, mostly the off-dribble shooting animations (oh god) are not very balanced, in regards to the speed in which they play out. Against the CPU on harder difficulties, you could try the James Harden stepback on Isaiah Thomas and it would be considered a heavy contest, just for the fact that the stepback animation is not as fast as it should be. Thats a problem i have with some animations in this game. Even though when playing vs. Human opponents I see that the off dribble animations work better (maybe because of the slower reaction time of the opponent guarding the ball handler)

I remember in 2k11 (I think), when stepbacks were tied to the Triangle/Y button, and it was such a joy to use, especially on harder difficulties. The CPU would play very tight defense and sometimes all you could resort to create space and pull off a jumper was the stepback and it was fast and realistic. Me being a Melo fan, I molded my character after his game and man, it was so fun.




Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[WarMMA]

I agree with everything he's saying too. The problem is really just 2k's default sliders now do a poor job at replicating that medium contest range(light contest), cuz of how they buffed shot contest and mainly on the higher difficulties, cuz they just inflate the CPU's jumpshot defense strength sliders so it can get better contest from ranges it shouldn't. It doesn't do a good job of replicating the little amount of space a good shooter needs to get a decent look. Take this gif for example...

Here PG hits a 3pt with Lebron right in front of him. Lebron didn't get a hand up to contest or anything, so PG had an open look and easily nailed it. But in 2k on default sliders on the higher difficulties, this is maybe considered a heavy contest cuz the player is standing right in front of you, when it should be a light or open...



With my slider tweaks, that's a light contest or an open shot all day, which is realistic as you can see.

[goma76]

Quote: Originally Posted by WarMMA

I agree with everything he's saying too. The problem is really just 2k's default sliders now do a poor job at replicating that medium contest range(light contest), cuz of how they buffed shot contest and mainly on the higher difficulties, cuz they just inflate the CPU's jumpshot defense strength sliders so it can get better contest from ranges it shouldn't. It doesn't do a good job of replicating the little amount of space a good shooter needs to get a decent look. Take this gif for example... Here PG hits a 3pt with Lebron right in front of him. Lebron didn't get a hand up to contest or anything, so PG had an open look and easily nailed it. But in 2k on default sliders on the higher difficulties, this is maybe considered a heavy contest cuz the player is standing right in front of you, when it should be a light or open... With my slider tweaks, that's a light contest or an open shot all day, which is realistic as you can see.

This is the point, find a way to lowering the contested shoot by the CPU. Decreasing the on ball defense and jump shoot gathering and release slider could help the cause.
In my opinion the CPU reaction is too fast when you are going to start a shoot. There should be major delay in that case. Give best reaction only
to good defender.
Another point:
In the reality I don’t see extremely hard defense on the ball handler in general if not in some momentum or in special game (playoff)
In game seems to be impossible replicate a game with poor defense in general like the last Sunday (LAL vs PHI). In game also the baddest defense team plays more that an average good defense.

[mfdoom911e]

Who says you cannot make a shot in front of them? this thread doesn't really know what he likes to achieve in this game. im playing Superstar with lower adjusted sliders to achieve realistic results shooting for CPU and User starting from 35 and below from different range. RP%, no shot meter. below are some samples.

[ksuttonjr76]

Quote: Originally Posted by mfdoom911e

Who says you cannot make a shot in front of them? this thread doesn't really know what he likes to achieve in this game. im playing Superstar with lower adjusted sliders to achieve realistic results shooting for CPU and User starting from 35 and below from different range. RP%, no shot meter. below are some samples.

There's a lot of good conversation in this thread. Personally, I considered these video examples of what I would consider "shooting in someone's face". Actually, these are the shots that I generally live with when my opponent hit them. Although I'm mostly a PNO player, I do play opponents who are too scared to play their own defense, so I end up playing against the AI anyway.

I guess I interpreted the original post as meaning to shoot a contested shot where the defender is 0-2 ft away from the ball handler. That's a no-no in my book. If anything, most of those shot results would usually end up in a shooting foul anyway, because most good offensive players will try to play for the foul due to the defender being too close.

[mfdoom911e]

Quote: Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76

There's a lot of good conversation in this thread. Personally, I considered these video examples of what I would consider "shooting in someone's face". Actually, these are the shots that I generally live with when my opponent hit them. Although I'm mostly a PNO player, I do play opponents who are too scared to play their own defense, so I end up playing against the AI anyway. I guess I interpreted the original post as meaning to shoot a contested shot where the defender is 0-2 ft away from the ball handler. That's a no-no in my book. If anything, most of those shot results would usually end up in a shooting foul anyway, because most good offensive players will try to play for the foul due to the defender being too close.

This close you mean?? with this one it should have been a foul. but 2k did not program 3 point to be part of shooting fouls.

But something this close should miss a lot also even for a CPU coz if not you will accidentally throw the remote control

[WarMMA]

The issue is just on all-star and up default sliders. 2k just inflates the CPU's jumpshot contest strength for gather and release, when in reality, a contest during a players jumpshot release is much less effective than it is during the gather of their shot.

[loso_34]

Quote: Originally Posted by mfdoom911e

This close you mean?? with this one it should have been a foul. but 2k did not program 3 point to be part of shooting fouls. But something this close should miss a lot also even for a CPU coz if not you will accidentally throw the remote control

Those are wide open shots lol.


Once a player gets that type of separation they’re open I really question if any of you played ball at any type of competitive level.

https://youtu.be/fW1A1A4vN_M

1:35

From Scottie pippens own mouth once a player gets that type of separation on a step back he doesn’t think he can contest or affect a shot lol



“All I can do is close out I don’t think I can block your shot I don’t even think I can affect it”.

Those videos are open jumpers not what op spoke on.