Sim vs Cheese - Lets debate

[MustangMan]

I just cant stand people abusing kobe posting and spinning around. If u double they can get a three...oh Mario chalmers stealing my Chris Paul crossover...the game could give us tools to stop lebron or at least make him tired. Their are ways to cheese but 2k seems to encourage it in some sort of way. If your open take a shot but u definetely don't need to run plays all game like college basketball.

[TheKasmar]

Quote: Originally Posted by P Shirls

the problem truly arises when u realize that by playing onball d this will happen every so often, but ur opponent decides to play offball and mess up the equal playing field....that opponent refuses to take the same risks u as the onball defender are taking which gives the offball defender the upper hand

Playing off-ball is a an equal risk. If my opponent is going to take his chances then so be it. Even the worst off-ball defenders still have to control their defense and tempo, which often leads to their demise. Although, given all the sliding that occurs when playing on-ball, I do give on-ball defenders more credit.

[Knighttime24]

Quote: Originally Posted by P Shirls

That's my point.....sometimes u will play great defense but still get scored on or someone will successfully run a play on you and I agree with u that the cpu might not read a random play.....the problem truly arises when u realize that by playing onball d this will happen every so often, but ur opponent decides to play offball and mess up the equal playing field....that opponent refuses to take the same risks u as the onball defender are taking which gives the offball defender the upper hand....that's when u question the integrity of the offball defensive player...esp if he clearly sees that u are tryna guard the ballhandler urself and not wimp out n let the cpu do it for u.... I just feel anybody who beats me with that offball defense ain't really better than me unless they beat me playing a mans game, but that don't really matter to ppl who only care about getting the win at any cost

If you don't play on-ball in 2k12 ,then you risk getting destroyed by isos. In 2k11, if you didn't play off-ball ,then you risked getting destroyed by backdoor cuts. Either way, there is no reasont hat you should look down on someone who doesn't guard the ballhandler. In fact, I question your skills for not being able to beat the CPU defender.

[P Shirls]

Quote: Originally Posted by Knighttime24

If you don't play on-ball in 2k12 ,then you risk getting destroyed by isos. In 2k11, if you didn't play off-ball ,then you risked getting destroyed by backdoor cuts. Either way, there is no reasont hat you should look down on someone who doesn't guard the ballhandler. In fact, I question your skills for not being able to beat the CPU defender.

Let's not act like the cpu doesn't mirror almost every move u make when u have the ball, that's common knowledge.....and online matchups are set on Allstar and many ppl complain tthat the cpu anticipates ur moves a lil too good, and I play on HOF when I'm not playin online so that makes it 10 times worse.....given that info, is it that hard to beat the ccpu? Not if u practice enough, but throw in the fact offball defenders just use zone and mash the steal button all game and its a fact that the passing this year is exponentially slower from ALL angles compared to the previous 2ks...this gives the offball defenders who know the game well the upper hand over the onball defender who knows the game just as well....

Don't get mee wrong tho, if u run into an offball defender,or a cheeser by all means, play offball d all u want if it stopps them from getting an unfair advantage....my only issue is when u see that ur opponent isn't a cheeser and he plays onball all game and u still playing offball defense....I can't tell u how to play but just kno u can't possiblyy think ur better than him cause ur picking off the slow passes playing offball or waiting in the paint to swat a shot while that person ur playing is being hindered by an unrealistically difficult cpu defender....

As far as rating skill in this game, to me, its not about the most wins its about HOW u got them....when me and my boys have a cypher, we outlaww offball d cause we all kno it gives an unfair advantage....and as much as id hate to admit it, there is an art to playing great offball defense...but I don't wanna learn the art of how to successfully beat my opponent without guarding him myself.....that in itself is just a soft way to play (considering ur opponent isn't cheesing or isn't playing offball defense as well) and id rather not put time into learning how to constantly switch off the ball handler to get bs steals and paint camping blocks..but that's just me

[Knighttime24]

Quote: Originally Posted by P Shirls

Let's not act like the cpu doesn't mirror almost every move u make when u have the ball, that's common knowledge.....and online matchups are set on Allstar and many ppl complain tthat the cpu anticipates ur moves a lil too good, and I play on HOF when I'm not playin online so that makes it 10 times worse.....given that info, is it that hard to beat the ccpu? Not if u practice enough, but throw in the fact offball defenders just use zone and mash the steal button all game and its a fact that the passing this year is exponentially slower from ALL angels compared to the previous 2ks...this gives the offball defenders who know the game well the upper hand over the onball defender who knows the game just as well.... Don't get mee wrong tho, if u run into an offball defender,or a cheeser by all means, play offball d all u want if it stopps them from getting an unfair advantage....my only issue is when u see that ur opponent isn't a cheeser and he plays onball all game and u still playing offball defense....I can't tell u how to play but just kno u can't possiblyy think ur better than him cause ur picking off the slow passes playing offball or waiting in the paint to swat a shot while that person ur playing is being hindered by an unrealistically difficult cpu defender.... As far as rating skill in this game, to me, its not about the most wins its about HOW u got them....when me and my boys have a cypher, we outlaww offball d cause we all kno it gives an unfair advantage....and as much as id hate to admit it, there is an art to playing great offball defense...but I don't wanna learn the art of how to successfully beat my opponent without guarding him myself.....that in itself is just a soft way to play (considering ur opponent isn't cheesing or isn't playing offball defense as well) and id rather not pput time into learning about to constantly switch off the ball hanlder to get bs steals and paint camping blocks..but that's just me

In 2k12, you pretty much stand no chance playing off-ball 100% of the time against an experienced player. The CPU sucks at contesting, and you'll be missing out on the BONUS EFFECTIVENESS of USER contests. Therefore, playing off-ball 100% of the time should actually be more detrimental to your success rate against experienced players.

[P Shirls]

Quote: Originally Posted by Knighttime24

In 2k12, you pretty much stand no chance playing off-ball 100% of the time against an experienced player. The CPU sucks at contesting, and you'll be missing out on the BONUS EFFECTIVENESS of USER contests. Therefore, playing off-ball 100% of the time should actually be more detrimental to your success rate against experienced players.

Yes the cpu may suck at contesting, on lower difficulties...i I'm a HOFer so its a bit different....but u have to get ur scorer in position to actually take the shot.....aside from the actual shot attempt itself, its common knowledge that the cpu rarely bites on moves that a human ccontrolled player would....and that's obviously the main reason why ppl go offball....yes the cpu contesting the shot isn't as effective, but not everybody in ur line up can actually shoot in most cases....and the movement leading up to the shot itself is constantly hindered by excessive zones and stealbutton mashing which makes running plays not as enjoyable as it should because everybody scared to give up points...

This all goes back to my main point....if everybody played onball d, we would all have the same disadvantages.....in the end it would be who could stop who the most, not who can play the passing lines the best or who can mash the steal button faster....that's lame to me....unless ur playing a chesser or offball defender, imo there's no reason to alter the balance by playing offball d to an onball defender other than being scared to give up points...

[LingeringRegime]

Just play the game in the way you would want others to play against you. That is what I always do. Most of the time no one complains and bitches.

[DukeC]

Quote: Originally Posted by Knighttime24

In 2k12, you pretty much stand no chance playing off-ball 100% of the time against an experienced player. The CPU sucks at contesting, and you'll be missing out on the BONUS EFFECTIVENESS of USER contests. Therefore, playing off-ball 100% of the time should actually be more detrimental to your success rate against experienced players.

This is true for the most part if you run plays...which I do. I can immediately tell if someone is playing off-ball just by the fact if I iso while holding down the turbo. If I see them mirror my moves then I know the CPU is the one guarding me. Once that happens I just destroy them in the post and run plays for the person they are likely guarding.