50(ish) Threshold-based Slider Set for NCAA 14

[matt2053]

Yeah crank it up to Heisman

[tyler28]

Josh i value your opinion. I play on heisman. Im curious what issues you are referring to on the op with issues on heisman?

Also, you said you have played a lot on heisman. Do you have a slider set for that? Or one you would recommend?

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[JoshC1977]

It's been a LONG while since I did an update. Honestly, I've barely touched this game in months. BUT, with my continuing work on Madden and given the continued refinement of my "tastes", I definitely wanted to post the following update.

This set was initially founded on the premise of "50ish" threshold. Basically, stay away from extremes. That still holds true but I started exploring threshold on Madden 19 a lot more and have begun to greatly appreciate the benefits of going (a bit) lower on threshold. What really was bothering me (in M19) was this constant "bombing forward" of offensive linemen downfield before the back even gets the ball...basically, the linemen were hitting the initial block, holding, releasing and starting downfield as the back is getting to the LOS. So, that first wave of defenders are essentially unblocked. A user can compensate, the CPU really cannot.

What we want to see is a situation where the back is starting to hit the hole with the linemen engaged at the first level, and then releasing around the same time to get to the next level block. This is key because we want those second level blocks to have some variety and dynamicism, because that is where the big runs can happen.

The issue is essentially that threshold is way too high, linemen are basically too fast relative to the backs. The trick though is that if you go with a lower threshold, it can't be so low that a) perimeter blocking is useless and b) that backs can just speed burst at will to the outside.

Now, as I settled-in I ran through some test runs on NCAA 14. Not too surprisingly, similar outcomes were observed. Now, for a long time, I thought it really was better when we saw those linemen downfield (and it worked because we were on Heisman and using a bunch of crazy slider adjustments). But, as this set has migrated to All American and a 100% default setup, I can absolutely see the issues here.

So...enter 40 threshold. This is a nice little sweet spot for what I have been looking for. Runners have more of a burst and hit the hole more in-time with the blocks. They are fast enough to get to the edge without making pulling lineman useless. This results in a much more improved ground attack (particularly for the CPU) and makes having quality linemen even more critical. This adds a bit more realism on the passing game as well, speed receivers are a bit more dangerous and we don't have the issue of CBs out-running the receiver on routes. The CPU QBs respond to this favorably, and are more likely to hit you downfield.

For those of you who enjoyed the slider setup but wanted a bit more of a challenge, I think you will enjoy the differences seen here. One little caveat, I have not given this a long-term assessment. This is an animation-based slider change vs one based on a large sample size. I did do some tests on 35 and 45 and both were "off".

The OP has been updated accordingly.

[VTHokie525]

Quote: Originally Posted by JoshC1977

It's been a LONG while since I did an update. Honestly, I've barely touched this game in months. BUT, with my continuing work on Madden and given the continued refinement of my "tastes", I definitely wanted to post the following update. This set was initially founded on the premise of "50ish" threshold. Basically, stay away from extremes. That still holds true but I started exploring threshold on Madden 19 a lot more and have begun to greatly appreciate the benefits of going (a bit) lower on threshold. What really was bothering me (in M19) was this constant "bombing forward" of offensive linemen downfield before the back even gets the ball...basically, the linemen were hitting the initial block, holding, releasing and starting downfield as the back is getting to the LOS. So, that first wave of defenders are essentially unblocked. A user can compensate, the CPU really cannot. What we want to see is a situation where the back is starting to hit the hole with the linemen engaged at the first level, and then releasing around the same time to get to the next level block. This is key because we want those second level blocks to have some variety and dynamicism, because that is where the big runs can happen. The issue is essentially that threshold is way too high, linemen are basically too fast relative to the backs. The trick though is that if you go with a lower threshold, it can't be so low that a) perimeter blocking is useless and b) that backs can just speed burst at will to the outside. Now, as I settled-in I ran through some test runs on NCAA 14. Not too surprisingly, similar outcomes were observed. Now, for a long time, I thought it really was better when we saw those linemen downfield (and it worked because we were on Heisman and using a bunch of crazy slider adjustments). But, as this set has migrated to All American and a 100% default setup, I can absolutely see the issues here. So...enter 40 threshold. This is a nice little sweet spot for what I have been looking for. Runners have more of a burst and hit the hole more in-time with the blocks. They are fast enough to get to the edge without making pulling lineman useless. This results in a much more improved ground attack (particularly for the CPU) and makes having quality linemen even more critical. This adds a bit more realism on the passing game as well, speed receivers are a bit more dangerous and we don't have the issue of CBs out-running the receiver on routes. The CPU QBs respond to this favorably, and are more likely to hit you downfield. For those of you who enjoyed the slider setup but wanted a bit more of a challenge, I think you will enjoy the differences seen here. One little caveat, I have not given this a long-term assessment. This is an animation-based slider change vs one based on a large sample size. I did do some tests on 35 and 45 and both were "off". The OP has been updated accordingly.

So glad to see you back working on ncaa Josh. I'll definitely have to give this a try when I get the chance.

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[VTHokie525]

Not sure if I like the threshold at 40...it seemed to make it harder for me and the CPU to get a big run because the LBs were in the backfield so fast. This also lead to a high amount of sacks, especially on play action calls. I really hate to say it, but I don't think theres any way to keep all of the sliders at 50 while playing on all american. You'll have to start adjusting them at some point to make the CPU more challenging, whether that be at the main menu or within the dynasty.

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[VTHokie525]

I thought I would ask you a few questions since you've been working on sliders for so long now. I've been playing some games on AA with adjusted sliders. But theres a few things that could still be better. The CPU tends to zig zag a lot when running up the field or the QB runs more sideways when scrambling. Idk if this is because I have it on AA, or if there is something else causing this. Also, what would you reccomend setting the OPI/DPI sliders to? I think I've seen you guys put it at 51/50 or 99/98 in the past. I know you'd like to keep everything default, but I just wanted to know your thoughts if you had to make adjustments.

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[JoshC1977]

Quote: Originally Posted by VTHokie525

I thought I would ask you a few questions since you've been working on sliders for so long now. I've been playing some games on AA with adjusted sliders. But theres a few things that could still be better. The CPU tends to zig zag a lot when running up the field or the QB runs more sideways when scrambling. Idk if this is because I have it on AA, or if there is something else causing this. Also, what would you reccomend setting the OPI/DPI sliders to? I think I've seen you guys put it at 51/50 or 99/98 in the past. I know you'd like to keep everything default, but I just wanted to know your thoughts if you had to make adjustments. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Zig-Zagging can usually be fixed by one of two ways, either raising the CPU RBA or lowering user TAK (they are relative to each other and I do not recommend adjusting both). Only the slightest of adjustments is needed too (i.e. <5 points).

What I've seen a lot since those days of adjusting OPI/DPI is that you can achieve much the same result by focusing on the PCV and INT sliders (lower is usually better for both). The only reason to adjust OPI/DPI is if your threshold is on an extreme value that borks the separation dynamics.

FWIW, while I may have gone a bit low with the 40 thresh...I strongly believe that 50 is too high and that there is a good intermediate value between 40 and 50 (honestly....45 wasn't too bad and is probably where I'd start). I just don't play this game much anymore....but I am happy to help out where I can.

[VTHokie525]

Quote: Originally Posted by JoshC1977

Zig-Zagging can usually be fixed by one of two ways, either raising the CPU RBA or lowering user TAK (they are relative to each other and I do not recommend adjusting both). Only the slightest of adjustments is needed too (i.e. <5 points). What I've seen a lot since those days of adjusting OPI/DPI is that you can achieve much the same result by focusing on the PCV and INT sliders (lower is usually better for both). The only reason to adjust OPI/DPI is if your threshold is on an extreme value that borks the separation dynamics. FWIW, while I may have gone a bit low with the 40 thresh...I strongly believe that 50 is too high and that there is a good intermediate value between 40 and 50 (honestly....45 wasn't too bad and is probably where I'd start). I just don't play this game much anymore....but I am happy to help out where I can.

Thanks man, I really appreciate any advice you're able to give me. I may just lower the TAK slider because I think raising the RBA makes the CPU RB break way many too tackles.

I wish I could keep everything default on AA as you suggest because I really like how the game feels, and I hate spending hours messing with the sliders instead of actually playing the game. However, AA is just too easy because the CPU offense is SO bad...

I've played a little with the threshold at 45 although I had similar results with those at 40. I would think that the field would be opened more by lowering the threshold, allowing for bigger runs but it almost seems the opposite to me because the LBs are so much quicker. I might have to try 45 with some adjustments.

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