2018-2019 NBA Predictions Thread.

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by cima

There you go with those advanced stats again and you know MVPs aren't based off advanced stats. Are you in that group that thinks Pau Gasol was more important to the Lakers championships than Kobe was too? - Steph Curry is playing like an MVP but he's on the most stacked team ever...he shouldn't get MVP. - Joel Embiid's team is .500 so I wouldn't put him above Kawhi right now. - Giannis and AD have legitimate arguments to be the front runners. I'm just saying Kawhi does too. And yes, it's extremely early and a small sample so this is all gonna be moot soon. Maybe I should've specified that those 4 are interchangeable, Kawhi was just who I thought of first.

And MVPs shouldn’t simply be based on top scorer on good team either. It’s out dated, and advanced stats absolutely paint a much larger picture than a running narrative that doesn’t really tell us anything we don’t already know.

To be fair, I’m not even basing this on advanced stats. If you saw my posts in the game threads I’ve been posting about how much iso play Kawhi has been playing as well as how this is the best I’ve seen Kyle Lowry play, all this before we even entered this discussion. Our disagreement is the only thing that brought the advanced stats into this.

To put a Suns spin on this, Lowry is to Nash what Kawhi is to Amar’e right now. On top of everything already mentioned about Lowry, on all the plays Kawhi scores that aren’t isolation plays guess who has over half of those assists.. Lowry, so he’s even aiding in a much larger impact on Kawhi’s game than vise versa.

I mean this could all change 30, 40, 50 games into the season. But 8 games in Lowry has been their floor general and most important piece. You keep harping on the advanced stats but there isn’t anything to dispute them, it’s not like I’m using variables that don’t match or provide holes in relation to my argument without them.

Outside of Toronto being 7-1 or whatever it is I don’t see how Kawhi is doing anything that separates himself from the other guys 5-10 or whatever who could be in the running for some votes. What does the Sixers being .500 8 games into a season have to do with him vs Kawhi winning MVP? He’s playing better basketball and largely providing more value to their success. The fact that they are .500 just shows what their record might be if he wasn’t playing that way. We know Toronto is going to have a record like this will all things common sans Kawhi plus DeRozan.. it’s silly to suggest he’s largely responsible for this when we’ve seen it for 4 seasons now..


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[ojandpizza]

I just don’t think I’ll ever warm up to the idea that team record is held at a higher value than how the player is actually playing and what his play translates towards the teams success.

Harden for example is playing at roughly the same level he was last year yet because they aren’t winning he isn’t getting MVP love. Doesn’t that right there show that him winning the award last year was bull****?


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[cima]

Quote: Originally Posted by ojandpizza

And MVPs shouldn’t simply be based on top scorer on good team either. It’s out dated, and advanced stats absolutely paint a much larger picture than a running narrative that doesn’t really tell us anything we don’t already know. To be fair, I’m not even basing this on advanced stats. If you saw my posts in the game threads I’ve been posting about how much iso play Kawhi has been playing as well as how this is the best I’ve seen Kyle Lowry play, all this before we even entered this discussion. Our disagreement is the only thing that brought the advanced stats into this. To put a Suns spin on this, Lowry is to Nash what Kawhi is to Amar’e right now. On top of everything already mentioned about Lowry, on all the plays Kawhi scores that aren’t isolation plays guess who has over half of those assists.. Lowry, so he’s even aiding in a much larger impact on Kawhi’s game than vise versa. I mean this could all change 30, 40, 50 games into the season. But 8 games in Lowry has been their floor general and most important piece. You keep harping on the advanced stats but there isn’t anything to dispute them, it’s not like I’m using variables that don’t match or provide holes in relation to my argument without them. Outside of Toronto being 7-1 or whatever it is I don’t see how Kawhi is doing anything that separates himself from the other guys 5-10 or whatever who could be in the running for some votes. What does the Sixers being .500 8 games into a season have to do with him vs Kawhi winning MVP? He’s playing better basketball and largely providing more value to their success. The fact that they are .500 just shows what their record might be if he wasn’t playing that way. We know Toronto is going to have a record like this will all things common sans Kawhi plus DeRozan.. it’s silly to suggest he’s largely responsible for this when we’ve seen it for 4 seasons now.. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We'll agree to disagree on this one. Much like any argument on any topic ever, one side never persuades the other to agree with them, lol.

Quote: Originally Posted by ojandpizza

I just don’t think I’ll ever warm up to the idea that team record is held at a higher value than how the player is actually playing and what his play translates towards the teams success. Harden for example is playing at roughly the same level he was last year yet because they aren’t winning he isn’t getting MVP love. Doesn’t that right there show that him winning the award last year was bull****? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Man we know how flawed the award is, it's been a narrative-driven award for awhile now and was cemented that way when Westbrook won it. Harden winning last year at least made sense; best player on the best team with elite numbers. It also helped his case that he was arguably screwed out of it two times earlier.

Plus I remember arguing with y'all a few years back in that 2000s thread where y'all had the audacity to call Kobe the most overrated player of the decade and some were using his 1 MVP award to support their case. Which by the way, James Harden is coming hard for that honor when it's time for the 2010s thread.

[ojandpizza]

Westbrook deserved it, it was about damn time they gave an award based on player performance to the player who performed the best and not the leading scorer on the team that won the most games. Westbrook actually broke the traditional narrative, and I hope we get many more years of that.

To me Kobe was the most overrated player of the decade. Not because he wasn’t one of the best but because of the way people lumped him with Jordan, lumped him with LeBron, labeled him as a top 3-5 player or even the GOAT. I’ve changed my stance on that now that all these lists are coming out and the majority of them have him ranked somewhere between 12-15 all time. In some senses he seems a bit underrated, depending what metrics you’re judging by, but all the noise we heard while he was playing, and the ESPNs of the world, and what I heard from people I knew personally, saw on Facebook, etc he was the most overrated player that I had watched. Like I said, that’s not so much the case now but it was at the time.


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[Mr B]

Luka Doncic running away with the ROY award.

[AlexBrady]

Quote: Originally Posted by ojandpizza

To me Kobe was the most overrated player of the decade. Not because he wasn’t one of the best but because of the way people lumped him with Jordan, lumped him with LeBron, labeled him as a top 3-5 player or even the GOAT. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kobe was rated perfectly. The completeness of his game and the virulent competitive nature was very reminiscent of MJ. I would say he was the best non-big in the game from roughly 2000-2012 when LeBron claimed that title from him.

[ojandpizza]

Quote: Originally Posted by AlexBrady

Kobe was rated perfectly. The completeness of his game and the virulent competitive nature was very reminiscent of MJ. I would say he was the best non-big in the game from roughly 2000-2012 when LeBron claimed that title from him.

I wouldn't disagree with that, though I think Bron claimed the title a few seasons earlier than 2012. But my reasons for claiming that he was overrated by many are more so in response to those who claim him to be much more than "the best non-big in the game" for a few years.

[AlexBrady]

Quote: Originally Posted by ojandpizza

I wouldn't disagree with that, though I think Bron claimed the title a few seasons earlier than 2012. But my reasons for claiming that he was overrated by many are more so in response to those who claim him to be much more than "the best non-big in the game" for a few years.

Kobe is certainly a worthy challenger to the standard-bearers like MJ and Oscar Robertson (my picks for the best non-bigs ever). I would slot him slightly below them but his game does stack up.