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LHayes37 · 12-28-2002, 03:40 AM

Does anybody here realize that back in the 50' and 60's they didn't buy teams, you had to draft your talent. And the Packers were not that good until Lombardi showed up. Yes, I know they won championships before he showed up, but just before the Lombardi era they weren't that good. So, the Packers 12 championships do stand up.

texdirtbag · 12-28-2002, 04:01 AM

the packers have three championships not 12. Get your facts straight. All records, stats, and championships are counted after the NFL merger. Before the merger Green Bay played in a league of 6 teams total so how can you count any championships before the merger. Dallas and San Francisco did not even exist before the 60s. Anyone who claims Green Bay gets credit for 12 championships is a moron. The Pack has 3 Super Bowl victories and the NINERS and COWBOYS have five. The Super Bowl is somewhat like the undisputed championship, and anything before the merger when there were two and sometimes three leagues with a small amount of teams in each league with their own championship is like having the WBA championship in boxing, it dont mean crap. No one counts their championships before the NFL merger. Hell, segregation was still in effect before the merger and all of the leagues were basically all white players and like I said 100 times there was more than one league and a small amount of players in each league. The NFL is football and the super bowl is recognized as the undisputed championship, anything else before the merger is BS.

texdirtbag · 12-28-2002, 04:18 AM

Real championships:
SF-5 has never lost a superbowl, the epitime of class
Dallas-5 eight appearances and most playoff victories ever
Pitt-4 only one superbowl loss, 2-1 against Dallas in SBs
GB-3 might get another in 2003
Oak-2 or 3 i cant recall
Miami-2 only undefeated team ever
Washington-3 most explosive SB team before the Rams
NY Giants-2 won one of the best superbowls ever
NY Jets-1 biggest underdog victory in superbowl history
NE-1 two appearances, second biggest SB underdog victor
STL-1 best offense ever
Baltimore-2 or 3 as colts and ravens
Chicago-1 best superbowl team ever
Denver-2 back to back for Elway
KC-1 or 2 one of the most "balanced" superbowl teams ever

I might have left some teams out but I dont think so. San Francisco and Dallas have almost a third of the superbowl victories between the two of them they are the two biggest champions in Pro Football history. Dallas has also been to more than anyone else as well as winning as many as SF. Dallas has appeared in one fourth of all superbowls, that is impressive.

rdawsoniii · 12-28-2002, 07:50 PM

Texdirtbag...it is YOU who need to get your facts straight. Your post is so full of holes it isn't even funny. Your assertion that championships, records and stats have only been kept since the merger is just plain wrong. I suggest you do some research instead of making things up.

As for your so-called 6 team league...you best check the record book again.

The team that wins the Super Bowl is the NFL champion. Before the Super Bowl, the winner of the NFL was the NFL champion. The Packers have won 12 NFL titles, the Bears 9. You are obviously a Cowboy fan in some sort of denial.

You just keep making your rationalizations....I'll rely on the official NFL records. As for anyone who thinks the Packers won 12 championships is a moron...well, I guess the NFL itself is a moron. Take a visit to the NFL's website and see for yourself.

rdawsoniii · 12-28-2002, 08:00 PM

Oh, and another thing...prior to the merger pro football was basically all white????????????????????????????????/

Good god man, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do some research before making such ridiculous statements. Basically white before the merger? Herb Adderley, Dave Robinson, Willie Wood, Willie Davis, Elijah Pitts, Bob Jeter, Marv Fleming...these are just some of the starters on the Packers alone. There were a LOT of black players in the '50s and '60s.

By your logic I guess all major league baseball records and championships before Jackie Robinson entered the league don't count either....after all, there were no blacks in MLB, and since the Negro League was around all the MLB World Series' didn't count.

Tex....you are such a dingus.

texdirtbag · 12-28-2002, 08:32 PM

The fact that there were two leagues in existence at the same time before the merger means that there was not a true champion. There was the AFL and NFL which is the equivalent of the AFC and NFC. The packers winning "9" championships before the merger is basically the equivalent of 9 NFC championships. I dont know the exact number of teams in each league before the merger but there was no more than a fourth of the number of teams compared to the NFL. The reason "the merger" is called "the merger" is because TWO LEAGUES were combined. Before they were combined, their were two leagues, and therefore two pro football champions. I do not consider that a true championship and i dont think any intelligent football person
would either. The Packers basically have 9 NFC championships (when college football was more popular than Pro Football, and pro football was still a work in progress) and 3 world championships. MLB has been ONE league for over 100 years and the records have been counted as such, you cant compare football to baseball history, that is stupid. If you want to count the packers 9 NFC championships then that is your priority but the NFL does not. The NFL started when the old AFL and the old NFL combined, therefore NFL records count the records after the NFL was created. If you really did look at NFL.com you would see that stated very clearly. You are obviously a packer fan creating facts that are not there. If you would look at it objectively you would not in your right mind compare an AFL or NFL championship before the merger to an NFL super bowl championship. If you do compare the two then a superbowl is worth at least 4 "old league" championships. The packers can have their 9 NFC championships and 3 true world championships.

rdawsoniii · 12-28-2002, 10:47 PM

Tex, you are still woefully misinformed/ignorant/in denial....the NFL started when the old NFL and AFL combined? The NFL has been the NFL since 1919 or 20. The NFL and AFL "merged" in the late '60s (actually more like an expansion). The records did not "start over." Look in the record book. The NFL started keeping records in 1932. The player who holds the season record for punting average (for example) is Sammy Baugh in 1940. This is well before you claim the NFL "really" began.

You can't throw nearly 50 years out the window. As for your weak reply that MLB was ONE league....did you forget the Federal League? What about the Negro League? These were both professional leagues. And since you claim very few blacks played in the NFL before the merger, NO blacks played in MLB prior to 1948(?)....thus by your logic no records in MLB should count before then.

Sorry tex, but you can live in your little dream world all you want...the Packers have 12 NFL/World titles per the National Football League records. The Bears have 9. The Cowboys have 5.

Intelligent football fans recognize this. Your lame attempt at trying to put down the accomplishments of great football players and teams is sad. Oh well...you just keep deluding yourself. As for me....I'm off to the Orange Bowl!!

(in case you have never heard of it, tex....it is a college football post season game) While I'm gone, why don't you occupy your time looking up Orange Bowl records. That way, if someone sets a new record this year you can find ways to claim the old ones are bogus)

texdirtbag · 12-29-2002, 02:58 AM

i never said the records started over. What I did say is that anyone with any intelligence would not compare a championship before the merger to a superbowl championship after the merger. Of course the stats count, but there were more than one championship before the merger and that is a fact. There were two champions every year, so how do you determine which championship counted? Do you count both of them? With your continued irrevelant reference to MLB. The federal league and Negro league champions were not recognized as true champions, although their "championships" were listed they are known to be not as important as World Series championships. Likewise, the records had to be listed from the AFL, NFL, USFL, and other "championships" but no one cares about those. If you want to count a championship from the freakin 20s and even compare it to a superbowl, you are clearly showing your ignorance. I hope most cheeseheads have more intelligence than you. You want to compare baseball, well the World Series goes back to the beginning of the century and those are real champions. The superbowl goes back 35 or so years and that is the real championship. Football has not been around in its present form as long as baseball has. Who cares about any pro football "championships" except the superbowl. When it comes to "superbowl" championships, SF and Dallas have 5, Pitt has 4, and GB has 3. That is all that matters, and superbowls were all I was talking about from the beginning.

12-28-2002, 03:40 AM	#17
LHayes37 Banned OVR: 8 Join Date: Jul 2002	Re: Cowboys blah blah 5 superbowls 49\'s blah blah 5 superbowls Does anybody here realize that back in the 50' and 60's they didn't buy teams, you had to draft your talent. And the Packers were not that good until Lombardi showed up. Yes, I know they won championships before he showed up, but just before the Lombardi era they weren't that good. So, the Packers 12 championships do stand up.

12-28-2002, 04:01 AM	#18
texdirtbag Banned OVR: 9 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Austin	Re: Cowboys blah blah 5 superbowls 49\'s blah blah 5 superbowls the packers have three championships not 12. Get your facts straight. All records, stats, and championships are counted after the NFL merger. Before the merger Green Bay played in a league of 6 teams total so how can you count any championships before the merger. Dallas and San Francisco did not even exist before the 60s. Anyone who claims Green Bay gets credit for 12 championships is a moron. The Pack has 3 Super Bowl victories and the NINERS and COWBOYS have five. The Super Bowl is somewhat like the undisputed championship, and anything before the merger when there were two and sometimes three leagues with a small amount of teams in each league with their own championship is like having the WBA championship in boxing, it dont mean crap. No one counts their championships before the NFL merger. Hell, segregation was still in effect before the merger and all of the leagues were basically all white players and like I said 100 times there was more than one league and a small amount of players in each league. The NFL is football and the super bowl is recognized as the undisputed championship, anything else before the merger is BS.

12-28-2002, 04:18 AM	#19
texdirtbag Banned OVR: 9 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Austin	Re: Cowboys blah blah 5 superbowls 49\'s blah blah 5 superbowls Real championships: SF-5 has never lost a superbowl, the epitime of class Dallas-5 eight appearances and most playoff victories ever Pitt-4 only one superbowl loss, 2-1 against Dallas in SBs GB-3 might get another in 2003 Oak-2 or 3 i cant recall Miami-2 only undefeated team ever Washington-3 most explosive SB team before the Rams NY Giants-2 won one of the best superbowls ever NY Jets-1 biggest underdog victory in superbowl history NE-1 two appearances, second biggest SB underdog victor STL-1 best offense ever Baltimore-2 or 3 as colts and ravens Chicago-1 best superbowl team ever Denver-2 back to back for Elway KC-1 or 2 one of the most "balanced" superbowl teams ever I might have left some teams out but I dont think so. San Francisco and Dallas have almost a third of the superbowl victories between the two of them they are the two biggest champions in Pro Football history. Dallas has also been to more than anyone else as well as winning as many as SF. Dallas has appeared in one fourth of all superbowls, that is impressive.

12-28-2002, 07:50 PM	#20
rdawsoniii Pro OVR: 5 Join Date: Jul 2002	Re: Cowboys blah blah 5 superbowls 49\'s blah blah 5 superbowls Texdirtbag...it is YOU who need to get your facts straight. Your post is so full of holes it isn't even funny. Your assertion that championships, records and stats have only been kept since the merger is just plain wrong. I suggest you do some research instead of making things up. As for your so-called 6 team league...you best check the record book again. The team that wins the Super Bowl is the NFL champion. Before the Super Bowl, the winner of the NFL was the NFL champion. The Packers have won 12 NFL titles, the Bears 9. You are obviously a Cowboy fan in some sort of denial. You just keep making your rationalizations....I'll rely on the official NFL records. As for anyone who thinks the Packers won 12 championships is a moron...well, I guess the NFL itself is a moron. Take a visit to the NFL's website and see for yourself.

12-28-2002, 08:00 PM	#21
rdawsoniii Pro OVR: 5 Join Date: Jul 2002	Re: Cowboys blah blah 5 superbowls 49\'s blah blah 5 superbowls Oh, and another thing...prior to the merger pro football was basically all white????????????????????????????????/ Good god man, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do some research before making such ridiculous statements. Basically white before the merger? Herb Adderley, Dave Robinson, Willie Wood, Willie Davis, Elijah Pitts, Bob Jeter, Marv Fleming...these are just some of the starters on the Packers alone. There were a LOT of black players in the '50s and '60s. By your logic I guess all major league baseball records and championships before Jackie Robinson entered the league don't count either....after all, there were no blacks in MLB, and since the Negro League was around all the MLB World Series' didn't count. Tex....you are such a dingus.

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12-28-2002, 08:32 PM	#22
texdirtbag Banned OVR: 9 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Austin	Re: Cowboys blah blah 5 superbowls 49\'s blah blah 5 superbowls The fact that there were two leagues in existence at the same time before the merger means that there was not a true champion. There was the AFL and NFL which is the equivalent of the AFC and NFC. The packers winning "9" championships before the merger is basically the equivalent of 9 NFC championships. I dont know the exact number of teams in each league before the merger but there was no more than a fourth of the number of teams compared to the NFL. The reason "the merger" is called "the merger" is because TWO LEAGUES were combined. Before they were combined, their were two leagues, and therefore two pro football champions. I do not consider that a true championship and i dont think any intelligent football person would either. The Packers basically have 9 NFC championships (when college football was more popular than Pro Football, and pro football was still a work in progress) and 3 world championships. MLB has been ONE league for over 100 years and the records have been counted as such, you cant compare football to baseball history, that is stupid. If you want to count the packers 9 NFC championships then that is your priority but the NFL does not. The NFL started when the old AFL and the old NFL combined, therefore NFL records count the records after the NFL was created. If you really did look at NFL.com you would see that stated very clearly. You are obviously a packer fan creating facts that are not there. If you would look at it objectively you would not in your right mind compare an AFL or NFL championship before the merger to an NFL super bowl championship. If you do compare the two then a superbowl is worth at least 4 "old league" championships. The packers can have their 9 NFC championships and 3 true world championships.

12-28-2002, 10:47 PM	#23
rdawsoniii Pro OVR: 5 Join Date: Jul 2002	Re: Cowboys blah blah 5 superbowls 49\'s blah blah 5 superbowls Tex, you are still woefully misinformed/ignorant/in denial....the NFL started when the old NFL and AFL combined? The NFL has been the NFL since 1919 or 20. The NFL and AFL "merged" in the late '60s (actually more like an expansion). The records did not "start over." Look in the record book. The NFL started keeping records in 1932. The player who holds the season record for punting average (for example) is Sammy Baugh in 1940. This is well before you claim the NFL "really" began. You can't throw nearly 50 years out the window. As for your weak reply that MLB was ONE league....did you forget the Federal League? What about the Negro League? These were both professional leagues. And since you claim very few blacks played in the NFL before the merger, NO blacks played in MLB prior to 1948(?)....thus by your logic no records in MLB should count before then. Sorry tex, but you can live in your little dream world all you want...the Packers have 12 NFL/World titles per the National Football League records. The Bears have 9. The Cowboys have 5. Intelligent football fans recognize this. Your lame attempt at trying to put down the accomplishments of great football players and teams is sad. Oh well...you just keep deluding yourself. As for me....I'm off to the Orange Bowl!! (in case you have never heard of it, tex....it is a college football post season game) While I'm gone, why don't you occupy your time looking up Orange Bowl records. That way, if someone sets a new record this year you can find ways to claim the old ones are bogus)

12-29-2002, 02:58 AM	#24
texdirtbag Banned OVR: 9 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Austin	Re: Cowboys blah blah 5 superbowls 49\'s blah blah 5 superbowls i never said the records started over. What I did say is that anyone with any intelligence would not compare a championship before the merger to a superbowl championship after the merger. Of course the stats count, but there were more than one championship before the merger and that is a fact. There were two champions every year, so how do you determine which championship counted? Do you count both of them? With your continued irrevelant reference to MLB. The federal league and Negro league champions were not recognized as true champions, although their "championships" were listed they are known to be not as important as World Series championships. Likewise, the records had to be listed from the AFL, NFL, USFL, and other "championships" but no one cares about those. If you want to count a championship from the freakin 20s and even compare it to a superbowl, you are clearly showing your ignorance. I hope most cheeseheads have more intelligence than you. You want to compare baseball, well the World Series goes back to the beginning of the century and those are real champions. The superbowl goes back 35 or so years and that is the real championship. Football has not been around in its present form as long as baseball has. Who cares about any pro football "championships" except the superbowl. When it comes to "superbowl" championships, SF and Dallas have 5, Pitt has 4, and GB has 3. That is all that matters, and superbowls were all I was talking about from the beginning.

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