Dont Look INSIDE...Im MAD AS HELL with 2K3 and your not gonna be happy!

[Aceman]

Erod, wwharton, and Glenn all seem to put it in total perspective.

VC and EA both make sim football games, one game has momentum physics, and ther other doesn't. There si definitely a define line between many types of gamers as to which style they prefer to play. Nothing wrong with that.

I'm one that will look at the positives and try to get the most out of both games. When I first popped Madden in a week ago, I completely hated it. The second day, I began to like Madden more, however, I still had high expectations for 2K3.

Wednesday, I pop in 2K3, and like most everyone, was wowwed by the ESPN presentation. A couple weeks prior, I played 2K3 on the PS2 in a demo kiosk, so I kind of knew what to expect. After my first game, I felt utterly disappointed with 2K3. I popped in Madden afterwards, and grew to like it more and more. Then I popped 2K3 back in, and shut it off midway thru the 3rd quarter in utter disgust.

On Thursday, I decided to not touch Madden at all, and give 2K3 a fair shake. I immediately started a franchise (something I've yet to do in Madden because of online play), and toned down the sliders a bit. Made a world of difference, and I started enjoying 2K3. I completed a couple more games, this time with a smile on my face.

I haven't played 2K3 since because I;ve only had time to play Madden online. However, both games have their own merits for me to play them both. Do I have a preference in which game I like more? Sure do. Right now, I prefer Madden. Does that mean the 2K series needs to play like Madden? Nope. Sooner or later, I'll tire of Madden, and start playing lots of 2K3. I'm willing to focus on the positives of both games, not the negatives.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

JROD...thanks alot...you summed up exactly how I feel about 2K3 in comparison to Madden and would have said exactly that if I was a smarter more well versed human being

[wwharton]

Great post, JRod. My perspective on it is close to Aceman, but for argument sake on "realism" i'm still having the same problem. Outside of the fact I just don't see the same problem with the oline. I get sacked plenty, and if I'm not playing the CPU which can find the open man in a nano second I can get sacks, and I'm reading from your post that this is kinda true in madden too. I'll agree the amount of drops aren't "realistic" but I don't think the number of catches in double/triple coverage in madden is "realistic" so it's two different approaches to address an AI problem I guess. I don't know why WRs that aren't that good can't just run bad routes but oh well.

I know you "say" you can't find much wrong with Madden but I'm still thinking that may just b/c of preference from the past. I wish someone (maybe you) would post about what's GOOD about the Madden approach vs what's GOOD about the 2k3 approach. There's very little wrong with either game so focusing on it to help make a decision is kinda silly.

Can someone without bias and with experience playing both games post about what one game does better than the other, or does that the other doesn't do. For example, I love Madden 101, great feature. And I think Madden's on the fly d changes is much better. but i like 2k3's pace better b/c it's easier to see running lanes and wrs getting open when running patterns.

[UofAZiP]

This is just in reply to all the people who say the sales figures don't lie... Exactly which baseball game do you think is the best seller...... none other than the Triple Play series.... now if you are telling me that sales figures relate to how good a game is, then you are completely wrong...

[XBox_Roughneck]

Look.

Your points are valid. So are Erod's.

Hell, I've got a ton of my own gripes about NFL2k3.

That said, you AND Erod aren't in the majority when it comes to opinions on whether NFL2k3 is a good game or not.

Just look at these reviews. I mean heck man. This game is has an average score of 95%.

I definately don't agree that the game is that good, but IMHO it's more enjoyable to play than Madden 2002 (which Erod appears to disagree with) and they've made just enough improvements to have me anxious for next years version.

NFL2k3 isn't as refined as Madden when you compare features and customizable options. Admitting that REALLY pisses me off because I had very high hopes for NFL2k3's franchise mode being a LOT more customizable than it is. I guess I expected too much from their revamped engine.

(Can a guy finally get TOTAL control of his LEAGUE management in a console football title?!?!?)

But, even with it's faults (some of yours I agree with), I find it to offer the most enjoyable IN GAME experience of any console football title this year. I've only played the DEMO of NCAA 2003 (which is reportedly better in game than Madden) so I can't say for CERTAIN that NFL2k3 is more enjoyable to me than Madden 2003, but I think it is.

What's my point?

Don't get mad at Sega because they didn't create a game specifically for YOU. Just enjoy Madden.

No console video game is perfect,(Far from it if you ask me) but hopefully one day someone will find that perfect mix of simulation/arcade.

[Freelance]

Let me add this. The best "plus" I've seen to this genre this year is the turnovers in Madden. I love the fumbles, both how they occur and the scramble for them afterward, and I love the different types of interceptions. NFL 2K3, on the other hand, has built a player model that EA absolutely MUST look at and copy. I also like the tipped ball animations in NFL2K3, and Madden has reinvented the screen pass in videogame football for us, as well. The gang tackling in Madden is also cool.

That's really it, though. I'd like to see more inovation than that after a full year's work.

[JRod]

wwharton,

That's what I've been trying to do. Maybe I should state my history with the games.

The first Madden I eve bought was Madden 98 for the PC. I was a life long Tecmo Bowl fan. And there was a period where I didn't play any games.

I was disappointed with Madden 98 like a lot of people. So in 99 it was the Dreamcast and NFL 2k3. Overall the game was good but didn't really suit me. I've always been in search or the most realistic football game, that's when I joined the now defunct pcsportsgaming. I moved to ga-sport later then to Wewp Sports with some of the guys now at Sports Reviewers and then just last year I had the pleasure to join Steve and the gang here.

I bought NFL 2k1 with enthusiam saying oh man it will be great. Again it was good but just not what I wanted. I did play some Madden 2001 for the PS2 but not enough to get a grasp of the game. On to last year. Maybe my head wasn't in the right place but I hated both NFL 2k2 and Madden. I just couldn't get into both games. They were like this year's ASB and WSB. I just didn't like them. I did enjoy Fever with it's short comings and too tell you the truth it was because I was fed up with both of the big titles. Oh I did enjoy quite a lot of NCAA 2002.

Fire up this year. And the only bad word about NFL 2k3 you hear me say is about the problems of the game. I don't know how much fairer I need to be. I have never said the game sucks nor is it bad. I have said that in terms of realism that NFL 2k3 needs to be more refined. In terms of Madden they really need to break the stigma of old madden's. People have gotten too used to their game and for the most part that's holding them back.

But as much ribbing I get on both sides of everything. I don't think you'll find a more fair person talking about problems in each games. What I don't like is when people confuse realism and fun or realism and graphics. My search it to play a great realistic football game that brings has similar the same fun of my all-time favorite Super Tecmo Bowl. So far in that journey this years Madden APPEARS closer.

Last thing I want to point out is both games have only been out a week. It usually takes about two to really see flaws of any games. I remember a lot of people were loving 2k2 or Madden last year until we hit the critical two-week point. And for some they've only played a few games of each. So to say Madden is just like last year's just goes to show they haven't played the game long enough. And for those that don't take the time to play NFL 2k3 that's just as bad. It's also just as bad to say slider it up or you don't know football or it has a learning curve. I can't tell you that initatial impressions usually give a good grasp of the game. If you have a problem that occurs in game one you will have it occur in game 10 to 25. You can always minimize your problems but usually it will happen again.

So I don't understand just because someone POINTS out flaws or what appears to be flaws doesn't really mean we don't like the game or we are biased. I don't think you'll find a more thoughtful and fairer poster on these boards.

[Paradox]

I'm not gonna bother to read through this whole thread (I've read 100 like it already), but one correction. The player ratings do sometimes change from game to game. Just, not very often and not by very much. If I remember correctly, Madden's player ratings don't change from week to week (at least not in the 2002 version). Did they change this?