QBs today: Overrated? Overpaid?

[oneamongthefence]

Quote: Originally Posted by kehlis

It's a league wide thing though. Not sure what argument there is to make about it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

I should have said gripe instead of argument. I think some of the team aspect is lost. Is defense still important? Yes. When you have Tom Brady or Peyton Manning? Not so much. Most teams are one qb away from mediocrity and I just don't like that.

I think qbs are way overpaid since they are protected so much and the game is so biased in their favor anyway. I would like to see some of the players who do more of the dirty work get more of a cut than to see a qb get a huge contract since he just wants to be the highest paid player in the league just because he can. See Joe Flacco or Tom Brady. It's too much like a dick waving contest to see who's is bigger.

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[kehlis]

Quote: Originally Posted by oneamongthefence

I should have said gripe instead of argument. I think some of the team aspect is lost. Is defense still important? Yes. When you have Tom Brady or Peyton Manning? Not so much. Most teams are one qb away from mediocrity and I just don't like that. I think qbs are way overpaid since they are protected so much and the game is so biased in their favor anyway. I would like to see some of the players who do more of the dirty work get more of a cut than to see a qb get a huge contract since he just wants to be the highest paid player in the league just because he can. See Joe Flacco or Tom Brady. It's too much like a dick waving contest to see who's is bigger. Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk 2

Have you even looked at the Broncos defense?


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[oneamongthefence]

Quote: Originally Posted by kehlis

Have you even looked at the Broncos defense? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

Pre Broncos Peyton. The Broncos are masters at managing their cap space with so many great players outside Peyton. I read an article that explained that the most consistently winning teams have the best salary cap situation. But their usually the ones that are the best drafters as well. But it still doesn't make up for most teams success tied into one player. Who is overpaid in my book.

The original argument was that by having Tom Brady, the patriots can't afford to have a better supporting cast. Which is why the haven't won a super bowl. They've still has a ton of success. But it's going to be the same with the Ravens I think. They'll be great for many years but Flaccos huge contract will limit them in picking up quality replacements and rely on in many instances unproven players either through the draft or free agency since they are cheaper.

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[shotgun styles]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chrisksaint

I don't think QBs today are overrated, in today's game you're only going to go far if your QB is playing pretty well. The rules of the game help, but it's also a matter of looking past the stats and seeing what they do on the field. I have no doubt in my mind the elite QBs of today would still be elite in the past. Overpaid? Maybe, I don't necessarily think that guys like Ryan and Flacco deserve Manning, Brees, Brady, and Rodgers money but you have to have a good QB.

You should. Alot of doubt in fact.

Otto Graham was a tailback in college. Johnny Unitas played both Safety and Linebacker. Can you even imagine Manning in his backpedal at FS for the Vols? Brady rushing the QB from the OLB? No chance.

The QBs of old were real athletes. Tom Brady couldn't run his way out of a wet paper bag. If it wasn't for the 5 yard chuck and the WORST RULE IN PROFESSIONAL SPORTS*, Manning, Brady & co. would not last 5 starts against today's defensive starters.



*Allowing QBs to ground the ball out of bounds (when out of pocket) or at the HBs feet is legalized cheating. It is tantamount to giving every player in the PGA a mulligan on every hole, then calling it fair because the rule book says it's ok.

[slickdtc]

Well, of course. Those guy are specialized in playing the QB position. I agree that QB is the least likely position (outside of P/K) to be able to transition to another position. Obviously, there are guys who've done it from college to pro's, but on the whole, the QB is the least athletic.

I don't think that's so wrong.

I think you just have an old school mindset, and there is nothing wrong with that. Believe me, I love the run game and believe its importance is way understated in making sure that pass game continues to click. I'm just trying to relate here... Anyway... But I believe these QB's are the best passers ever, rules favoring them or not. It's because they're so specialized. I guarantee now if you throw some of those old schoolers out there, they wouldn't shine like they did in bygone eras. There are some exceptions, but on the whole I think if this current second tier of QB's played 30 years ago, they would be the top tier instead of second fiddle to Manning/Brady.

I also take issue with saying the AFC East has inflated the Patriots record over the years. Yes, Buffalo has been a free 2 wins for them a year, but the Dolphins seem to be able to split with them often enough, and same with the Jets. Besides, where are the other 8 wins a year coming from? The Patriots are a legitimate Super Bowl contender year in and year out. In a tougher division, they probably get a wild card instead of a division title. To act like they're just fodder is misguided.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by oneamongthefence

Pre Broncos Peyton. The Broncos are masters at managing their cap space with so many great players outside Peyton. I read an article that explained that the most consistently winning teams have the best salary cap situation. But their usually the ones that are the best drafters as well. But it still doesn't make up for most teams success tied into one player. Who is overpaid in my book. The original argument was that by having Tom Brady, the patriots can't afford to have a better supporting cast. Which is why the haven't won a super bowl. They've still has a ton of success. But it's going to be the same with the Ravens I think. They'll be great for many years but Flaccos huge contract will limit them in picking up quality replacements and rely on in many instances unproven players either through the draft or free agency since they are cheaper. Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk 2

Have you actually looked at Flacco's contract? He's taking the owner's money, not hindering the team. They just signed Dumervil, Huff, Canty, Spears and Shiancoe... and were already littered with stars. This is the market for QBs. Teams know that and deal with it.

The Brady comment is crazy. It's hard as hell to win a SB and there is always a little luck involved. The Pats have been consistently great for longer than any other team in the league. The year they lost Brady and missed the playoffs was a DOWN year with 11 wins. They seem to be falling off a bit now, but no matter what the paper says, they're still winning. They've been two the SB twice so they're still winning in the playoffs too.

[Chrisksaint]

Quote: Originally Posted by shotgun styles

You should. Alot of doubt in fact. Otto Graham was a tailback in college. Johnny Unitas played both Safety and Linebacker. Can you even imagine Manning in his backpedal at FS for the Vols? Brady rushing the QB from the OLB? No chance. The QBs of old were real athletes. Tom Brady couldn't run his way out of a wet paper bag. If it wasn't for the 5 yard chuck and the WORST RULE IN PROFESSIONAL SPORTS*, Manning, Brady & co. would not last 5 starts against today's defensive starters. *Allowing QBs to ground the ball out of bounds (when out of pocket) or at the HBs feet is legalized cheating. It is tantamount to giving every player in the PGA a mulligan on every hole, then calling it fair because the rule book says it's ok.

Your point? So Brady and Manning can't play FS, I bet Marino and Montana couldn't either, etc. They can throw the ball like not many in NFL history can.

Lol it's not equivalent to a mulligan, they lose a down. It must suck to hate the way football is played that much

[shotgun styles]

Quote: Originally Posted by slickdtc

Well, of course. Those guy are specialized in playing the QB position. I agree that QB is the least likely position (outside of P/K) to be able to transition to another position. Obviously, there are guys who've done it from college to pro's, but on the whole, the QB is the least athletic. I don't think that's so wrong.

It's not a question of right or wrong. The game has become the WWE. More sports-entertainment and less an athletic contest. Good for TV ratings, bad for the legacy of the sport.

Quote: Originally Posted by slickdtc

I think you just have an old school mindset, and there is nothing wrong with that. Believe me, I love the run game and believe its importance is way understated in making sure that pass game continues to click. I'm just trying to relate here... Anyway... But I believe these QB's are the best passers ever, rules favoring them or not. It's because they're so specialized.

Are you seriously making the argument that these record numbers would be put up in a league where EVERYTHING was not pass interference? That flies in the face of reason. If a DB makes eye-contact with a receiver they throw a flag. Most of what passes for defensive technique in the NFL is simply allowing the catch and making the tackle. Unless a DB has perfect position he's coached to just wait because contesting the ball typically draws a flag. When it doesn't, here comes Tom to cry to the ref, who won't make that mistake again.

Add to that the way recievers are coached to flop, to stop in front of DBs and cause contact to draw fouls when the ball is off target. You are grossly underestimating the influence of the super-enforced passing rules of today.

And I haven't even discussed the Worst Rule In Football. As a defensive player today you're not even playing against the offense. You're playing against the Refs and the Competition Committee. Take the handcuffs off the defense and these "specialized passers" would become ordinary in a hurry.

Quote: Originally Posted by slickdtc

I guarantee now if you throw some of those old schoolers out there, they wouldn't shine like they did in bygone eras. There are some exceptions, but on the whole I think if this current second tier of QB's played 30 years ago, they would be the top tier instead of second fiddle to Manning/Brady.

The issue isn't how the old schoolers would play today. This issue is what today's QBs would look like if the rules were still fair. Again, you are underestimating how much different the game is when the Refs are controlling the action. These rules were specifically designed to add yards and touchdowns to the NFL.

Quote: Originally Posted by slickdtc

I also take issue with saying the AFC East has inflated the Patriots record over the years. Yes, Buffalo has been a free 2 wins for them a year, but the Dolphins seem to be able to split with them often enough, and same with the Jets. Besides, where are the other 8 wins a year coming from? The Patriots are a legitimate Super Bowl contender year in and year out. In a tougher division, they probably get a wild card instead of a division title. To act like they're just fodder is misguided.

What 8 wins? All you gotta do to make the playoffs is win your division. You don't have to win every game, or even every division game, just the division and you are an automatic qualifier. And that division is garbage. Look at the Fins, Bills and Jets over the last 20 years or so. Maybe good for a year or two in a row, then back to the basement. Yes, NE is consistent, but what would they look like in a division with perennial contenders in it like Pittsburgh or Baltimore?

And for the record, IND has also benefited from playing in a crap division.