Madden 18 Franchise PSA (Shopmaster)

[DeuceDouglas]

Quote: Originally Posted by underdog13

Man if Madden's cfm was like Mlb The Show's Franchise I'd be complaining alot more. Surprised other people feel the opposite.

Quote: Originally Posted by underdog13

Yeah I'm saying it's worse by a decent margin. It really depends on what you look for in a franchise. I look for immersion and Madden does a better job than The Show.

I'm on the opposite side. If CFM was like The Show's franchise I'd likely be playing Madden year round. What kind of stuff would you take from Madden that you'd like to see in The Show?

[deu22ces]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

https://youtu.be/qVfF17fGbco Sent from my SM-G930P using Operation Sports mobile app

That's good, and funny, and I'm pretty sure I get your point that you try to hammer thru in just about every thread these days. And if not, feel free to tell me to kick rocks.

Just be careful with the flip side of that because the same video could be played about a bunch of developers and coders regarding their football knowledge and acumen. Perhaps one of the problems is that you have coders, who while most are certainly fans, majority probably passionate about the sport and/or their jobs...how many (what %) have played the game at high levels and more importantly to Franchise mode components, how many have ever coached the game, been a real GM, or scouted players and been taught HOW to watch film and evaluate players.

I played the game for 18 yrs and thought i was 'smart' and knew the game. But it wasn't until I coached it and recruited athletes, learned HOW to study/grade film, and coordinated it, installed gameplans and playbooks from the ground up, that I REALLY knew the game, WHY it all happens and how it all comes together.

I do not code for a living. But i can imagine it difficult to 'properly' code something without understanding exactly what it is that you are trying to replicate. If you have simply the 'what' but not the 'why' 'how' and the progression, you miss all the detail, nuances, and authenticity.

You can code and create animations for a 5 step drop. But unless you know why it's '5' steps, why there's 3 wider, longer steps, a gather step, then a weight redistribute and throw step, you end up with the rushed, identical step, hyper-speed drops we have in the game that throw off the timing of every 5-step drop play in the playbooks.

You get players who retire in your offseason, and the first news banner you see is how he is going into the Hall of Fame the same year! Yes, you get a practice squad...but no CPU logic to deal with it or depth to use it properly. You get 'team-specific' playbooks and the very nice down/distance breakdown, but severely flawed logic of what to run in those scenarios.

So, we get animations and features that attempt to copy the 'what', but the result ends up being inauthentic b/c they don't know enough of the 'why' 'how'.

Look, I get your desire to defend yourself and your brethren, and certainly the grand scheme and directives get handed down by suits and executives who i know don't 'get it', but when you are tasked with coding and developing authentic representation of something, it is no longer in the hands of the 'higher-ups'. At some point the buck has to stop.

You think you know "football"...

[underdog13]

Quote: Originally Posted by DeuceDouglas

I'm on the opposite side. If CFM was like The Show's franchise I'd likely be playing Madden year round. What kind of stuff would you take from Madden that you'd like to see in The Show?

Top stuff would probably be the...

- The Twitter Feed
- The progression/regression system & retirement setup
- The abilty to alter progression rates
- Free agency point system & draft hype
- Preseason cutdowns

The twitter feed is huge imo, it just makes me feel like my team doesn't exist in a bubble.

With the progression/regression system I don't really care if it's like the show's with training or like Madden with xp. I care about the results. And with a good xp set, the results in Madden are much more inline with their respective l league and more dynamic in terms of who becomes a stud and who just is good or a bust. In the show, it feels like everyone is on a linear path based on their potential and age. While sometimes players in the show might become good players and improve potential, or not become **** at age 35. It doesn't happen enough to make things interesting. The regression in the Show is my #1 gripe with franchise, then followed by lack of around the league news and immersion.

Preseason is also more interesting in Madden than spring training, I wish the Show would add some sort of screen or segment for making roster​ decisions than just the roster screen.


On a slightly different topic but still relavent to the topic of immersion in franchise modes. I felt that last years highly praised announcers in Madden 17, were just **** in cfm. They had very little to say about the current season or stats.

While on the other hand, in The Show 16 the always bashed presentation and announcers. Were great in a franchise, always talking about how the teams was doing and plenty of osd's for season stats.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by deu22ces

That's good, and funny, and I'm pretty sure I get your point that you try to hammer thru in just about every thread these days. And if not, feel free to tell me to kick rocks.

It was really just a joke

Quote:

Just be careful with the flip side of that because the same video could be played about a bunch of developers and coders regarding their football knowledge and acumen. Perhaps one of the problems is that you have coders, who while most are certainly fans, majority probably passionate about the sport and/or their jobs...how many (what %) have played the game at high levels and more importantly to Franchise mode components, how many have ever coached the game, been a real GM, or scouted players and been taught HOW to watch film and evaluate players. I played the game for 18 yrs and thought i was 'smart' and knew the game. But it wasn't until I coached it and recruited athletes, learned HOW to study/grade film, and coordinated it, installed gameplans and playbooks from the ground up, that I REALLY knew the game, WHY it all happens and how it all comes together. I do not code for a living. But i can imagine it difficult to 'properly' code something without understanding exactly what it is that you are trying to replicate. If you have simply the 'what' but not the 'why' 'how' and the progression, you miss all the detail, nuances, and authenticity. You can code and create animations for a 5 step drop. But unless you know why it's '5' steps, why there's 3 wider, longer steps, a gather step, then a weight redistribute and throw step, you end up with the rushed, identical step, hyper-speed drops we have in the game that throw off the timing of every 5-step drop play in the playbooks. You get players who retire in your offseason, and the first news banner you see is how he is going into the Hall of Fame the same year! Yes, you get a practice squad...but no CPU logic to deal with it or depth to use it properly. You get 'team-specific' playbooks and the very nice down/distance breakdown, but severely flawed logic of what to run in those scenarios. So, we get animations and features that attempt to copy the 'what', but the result ends up being inauthentic b/c they don't know enough of the 'why' 'how'. Look, I get your desire to defend yourself and your brethren, and certainly the grand scheme and directives get handed down by suits and executives who i know don't 'get it', but when you are tasked with coding and developing authentic representation of something, it is no longer in the hands of the 'higher-ups'. At some point the buck has to stop. You think you know "football"...

I disagree with nothing here. Had I not consumed every bit of the available info on the CBA I could (I was the only designer with any legal background), we probably would not even have a rookie reserve.

Honestly, sometimes issues are pushed on due to design problems. You have a meeting or twelve, nobody can agree on an approach, so it's put off for a year. Personally, I like having a guy own a concept. "You got progression, run with it," but Madden's mostly by-committee (for good reasons) and I think that slows things down.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Operation Sports mobile app

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

It was really just a joke I disagree with nothing here. Had I not consumed every bit of the available info on the CBA I could (I was the only designer with any legal background), we probably would not even have a rookie reserve. Honestly, sometimes issues are pushed on due to design problems. You have a meeting or twelve, nobody can agree on an approach, so it's put off for a year. Personally, I like having a guy own a concept. "You got progression, run with it," but Madden's mostly by-committee (for good reasons) and I think that slows things down. Sent from my SM-G930P using Operation Sports mobile app

Is there anything on replacing the legacy coding with newer coding and any difficulties associated with that or nothing there?

I have no IT background or coding background.

[TurboTitan]

I know we as a community try our best to avoid kicking this "dead horse" and all, however, in this situation I feel it is very relevant. EA and the Dev's can try to spin this however they want, blame another game completely or vaguely throw it onto the "suits" in the high rise offices all they want. We as a community are not as stupid as we continually get treated (this is my opinion only). We ALL know that if there were ANY type of competition, there is absolutely NOWAY they could get away with basically not touching the most important/popular game mode for their hardcore fans, in really 4+ years (and that's being generous).

I know its not EA's fault that they ponied up the kinda money to eliminate their competition, that 2K couldn't afford. it was a great business move, however, we as the gamer's have suffered immensely as a result (again, my opinion). EA can sit back, not even touch the most popular mode to keep it fresh for the fans (i.e. missing BASIC options that were in said competition's game a DECADE ago) and they have NO consequences whatsoever. They will still sell 2M+ units for the simple fact there is no other choice for us addicted NFL fans.

I have no doubt that the EA guys on these boards and in the trenches CARE about what kind of product they give us hardcore guys that make up a site like this.....I am just so tired of hearing literally every year that NEXT year is the year that Franchise gets some attention at all......and we let them get away with it cause we have no other choice,

I would love to see what kind of game that EA would make with 2K on their heels. Unfortunately we will never see that, thus waiting till "next year" yet again.

[deu22ces]

@adembroski

no problem, i got the humor as well and said so. I honestly really enjoy your unique perspective. I just notice your defensive posture in a number of similar threads. Personally, I don't think they need defending so much as they just need more help, resources, knowledge, etc. And your personal knowledge of the game may very well be top-notch, Idk. But you're also not there anymore, perhaps to our detriment. You may have worked on HC '09 which I thought had great ideas and really made headway toward what Franchise could be, it just obviously sorely needed the updated gameplay engine and fine tuning/further innovation. Maybe you were there for M12 which really starting giving us back the control in Franchise, but just needed the HC '09 sim stuff.

I have the gut feeling that if $$ and time resources are taken away from Madden in any way, it's b/c the Execs view Madden as an ATM, a lock of a revenue producer every year. And all the data Execs see, including Franchise mode, is from online players and not offline guys. So in their perspective, everything seems "ok" regarding Franchise as long as people are 'playing' it. The lack of quality doesn't show in that kind of metric. And they see all this new $$ coming from online transactions. I get it.

But I bet that if the time ever came they didn't sell their 5-6 Million copies of Madden, there'll be an exec looking to 'shake things up' again. Maybe we'll get a Franchise overhaul then.

[Junior Moe]

Quote: Originally Posted by deu22ces

I see The Show and NBA2K mentioned alot in threads like this. I don't play them currently but open for anyone that does to answer: Granted those games surely aren't perfect, but does anyone who plays them today ever wish you had features from over 10yrs ago? Can you say that Franchise in those modes has less depth than 10yrs ago? Has more been taken out than put into those Franchise modes?

As a longtime fan of both games franchise mode I would say no with a few exceptions. The NBDL (developmental league) and NBA.com homepage (I'm big on immersion...) being the only things I can think of in 2K. In The Show I'm not aware of anything missing from last gen except maybe newspapers? The Shows franchise has stagnated but they have added things like player morale and stuff to give a little more life to things. But nothing major is missing on either front.

A 2K dev has told us that the NBDL wasn't used much when we had it and that it's not likely to return the way it was from 2K10-2K12 because of how resource heavy it would be. Still, he solicited advice (such as text based) on how we would want it in a different capacity. That's what I like. We may never see it again. Who knows. But it wasn't addressed as "maybe next year" knowing full well it'll never be as it was. Its the truth. I respect that. I know it's not "the devs don't care, or are lazy". No. It's just the reality.

I know Madden devs and the franchise guys aren't lazy or incompetent. It's the same company that made those amazing franchise modes that made me a fan of Madden in the first place. They made NFL Head Coach, an almost 10 year old game that is still the definitive "franchise" experience in my book. I just feel its an approach dictated from the top down. And that's cool. I adjusted to that reality and still find a way to enjoy the game for what it is. The shelf life is shortened significantly but it is what it is. Everything that can be said, has been. It's on them now.