Werewolf XLIII - The Big City (Game over)

[LoneStarGirl]

i am subject to change my vote.... and will probably be online about 15 minutes before lynch to make sure everything is okay....

It seems we have one vote for three different people.... that bothers me

[Blade6119]

Blade - I'm still interrested in teh gun if LSG didn;t buy it. Did you sell it to someone else?

Nope..and im not going to give LSG the other items now that she is helping chief and sndvls...hope her gun does a lot of good with no bullets.

Ill see you anything ive got...what kind of prices are you looking at?

[Blade6119]

ill sell*

[LoneStarGirl]

i already put the money in... so if you were honest about sending me the items previously, it doesn't matter what you say cuz i have them now....


but if you lied about it, ill change my vote to you

[LoneStarGirl]

and, how am i working with sndvls and cheif? If i was working with them i would have voted for you.... i didn't, i voted for anxiety

[Blade6119]

And sndvls has yet to answer me...ive learned one thing from his role all game, and that was early on...what have you been doing sndvls?

[Abe Sargent]

I can't switch,

[Blade6119]

and, how am i working with sndvls and cheif? If i was working with them i would have voted for you.... i didn't, i voted for anxiety

not voting them is working with them...today is basically coming down to chief/sndvls vs me/maybe anxiety.

You avoiding it is just supporting evil as it makes them winning the lynch easier. Everyone in this game needs to pick a side, be it me or them. When i die, they will die tomorrow...so i dont mind

[Abe Sargent]

How about 700? THat's about all i have, so it gets you close to your goal

[Blade6119]

i already put the money in... so if you were honest about sending me the items previously, it doesn't matter what you say cuz i have them now....


but if you lied about it, ill change my vote to you

Are you reading? Go back and look like 5 posts before this when i explain how the mechanic works...you didnt send the proper PM to alan to buy the goods, so no sale occured. I dont send them to you, alan handles it.

[Blade6119]

How about 700? THat's about all i have, so it gets you close to your goal

LSG just sent in the proper PM and bought all 3 items...she now has 2 guns...:(

[LoneStarGirl]

i guess i did send the proper pm after all huh

[LoneStarGirl]

path, what are your thoughts?

[LoneStarGirl]

if me, path, sndvls, and cheif all vote for me as judge then we will be set...

its just up to determining who is the bad guy out of blade, je and anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

Okay, I'll follow.

Unvote SnDvls
Vote Chief Rum


I do want to point out that I on;t remember SnDvls ever givng an explanation for how his arrest warrant disappeared.

[Abe Sargent]

LSG, may I buy a gun from you then?

[Abe Sargent]

If I';m mafia, I can kill without the gun. So I obviously need the gun for self defense.

[Blade6119]

Path, JE...you guys basically hold the lynch in your hands...think things through and go with your hearts

[LoneStarGirl]

well je thinks im bad, so he will go with you.

But path knows that I am good because i know he is good... but that doesn't mean he will follow me.

Why would cheif send me a jewel and sndvls a gun?
..... but it is weird that he 'found a gun' and got lucky twice.
Anxiety found something once, and so did i. What are the chances he found something twice?

I am not 100% on chief, and if he dies tonight and is good, blade dies tomorrow

unvote anxiety

vote chief rum

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I still think LSG is working with the mafia, and I can't tell you how disturbing it is to know that she has two (possibly the only two?) guns. But since no one else is going to follow me today, I will switch my vote.

UNVOTE LONESTARGIRL
VOTE CHIEF RUM

[Blade6119]

So who do we want for judge? Path said not je or anxiety, which to me leaves myself, path(if he can protect himself), and lsg.

[path12]

So who do we want for judge? Path said not je or anxiety, which to me leaves myself, path(if he can protect himself), and lsg.


I voted LSG for judge. And I guess my vote for lynch doesn't matter any way, and I think there is a benefit not to telegraph where it would have gone so for today I'll go with the crowd and

VOTE CHIEF RUM

I think we will learn a lot from this.

[Blade6119]

If it helps chief, the power that saved you yesterday is now protecting me...so you wouldnt have killed me no matter how many votes you had gotten.

Now, if you kill me with your mafia powers i wont say what awaits you

[Blade6119]

Voted LSG...this close to the deadline, im wondering where the mafia kill is...then again, neither chief or sndvls have been on for awhile so maybe i shouldnt be suprised

[LoneStarGirl]

You talk out of your ass a lot don't you Blade? What powers protected me yesterday?

[LoneStarGirl]

I have also decided to pass one of my guns and some bullets on to somebody i trust. if they choose to reveal here they got the gun, its up to them

[LoneStarGirl]

I would like to hear from SNDVLS who he investigated today though

[Blade6119]

I think you misread what i wrote LSG...you sure suck at reading.

I said powers that protected chief, when he avoided the lynch. The head of the lynch mob had selected him to be immune from lynch that day. Whoever had the power yesterday selected me today. I was the head of the lynch mob today, and i selected my person who will now be immune tomorrow. They will be notified during the next day cycle.

So maybe you should read better lsg, your inaccuracies are becoming annoying.

[LoneStarGirl]

at least the only thing about me that is annoying is my reading.

I guarantee that everybody who has played WW with you has at least 10 things about you that annoy them. I mean, you are the main reason a lot of people stop playing Werewolf.

[Abe Sargent]

I think you misread what i wrote LSG...you sure suck at reading.

I said powers that protected chief, when he avoided the lynch. The head of the lynch mob had selected him to be immune from lynch that day. Whoever had the power yesterday selected me today. I was the head of the lynch mob today, and i selected my person who will now be immune tomorrow. They will be notified during the next day cycle.

So maybe you should read better lsg, your inaccuracies are becoming annoying.

Damn Blade, calm down. :)

[SnDvls]

vote blade

you are making a mistake with CR, LSG
he's on our side

[LoneStarGirl]

sndvls, i see you on, who have you investigated lately?

[LoneStarGirl]

The pm from alant about chief was way too misleading sndvls.... I would rather double check. And if he is good, we go after blade, if he is bad and the game continues, I am sorry buddy but you are next.

[SnDvls]

I get an action once every four days so yesterday was my day and CR came up clean. I did Bsak on day 4.

[SnDvls]

what day did you scan Blade and JE?

[LoneStarGirl]

I deleted a lot of my pms cuz it was full, but Blade was day 2 and JE was day 4

and on march 2nd whatever day that was, is when i found out there was another detective...was that before or after lathum died?

[SnDvls]

Lathum died day 6 not sure what day it was real time I'd have to go back and look

[Alan T]

Deadline. Sorry a little slow tonight. dealing with doctors

[LoneStarGirl]

Gosh alant... can't you speed it up??

JK!! :D :) ;)

[Alan T]

Current Judge: Anxiety

In Jail: None

Warrants: Search Warrant Blade

Injuries: None

Job Openings: None

Pawn Shop items for sell:

No current list

[Alan T]

The Big City Herald
Edition 33

Lynch mob revenge

After yesterday's shocking finish to the mob demonstrations, today started where yesterday left off. Many people started pointing fingers at each other, and it was close to chaos breaking loose when finally some calmer heads prevailed. "We wanted chief yesterday, and we still want him today!" shouted one man. The mob's wrath towards Chief then built as the evening continued until the point when the lynch mob was ready to seek revenge from yesterday's events. The police were unfortunatly not able to stop the mob before they fufilled their goal.

Dress Blues

In another mob related note, it appears during the attempt by the police to break up the mob, some shots were heard fired into the crowd. It did not take long however for people nearby to realize that one of Big City's finest had been shot right in the middle of the crowd. The police have refused any comments on what leads they might have in this case currently. The police chief however did tell reporters that when one of their own is shot, there will be hell to pay.

Judge reign continues

It appears that our current judge will continue his record setting tenure on the City's high court bench. There were not enough opponents mustered in order to remove him from his seat. While some angry words were fired at judge Anxiety during the day, it appears by the end of the day most of his strongest opponents were "silenced".

[Abe Sargent]

Why am I still the judge?

[Abe Sargent]

Path
Me
Blade
SnDvls
Jonathan E.

There's a wolf in sheep's clothing here.

[Abe Sargent]

Now that we know Chief Rum;s story was right, time to look at someone else.

Vote Blade

[SnDvls]

Now that we know Chief Rum;s story was right, time to look at someone else.

Vote Blade

this is what I said and it cost us LSG now too

vote Blade

[Blade6119]

Im nuetral now, like i told you guys...you want to kill me, and you will lose. Its 3-2 likely, so miss and you lose. Anxiety is immune, so i pray its not him, becuase hes not dying.

[Blade6119]

By the way chief, im sorry i was wrong...i thought i had you, and i apologize for bringing about your death.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

I have also decided to pass one of my guns and some bullets on to somebody i trust. if they choose to reveal here they got the gun, its up to them

How many guns are in this game? Are there only two? If there are, we should be looking at the people LSG trusted.

[Blade6119]

LSG trusted path and sndvls of who is left, but i have no idea if more guns are out there.

Path seems to be the bodyguard, but wont claim it..sndvls is supposedly a once every four days reporter.

[SnDvls]

Blade you have to know there is at least one, LSG was killed by one

[path12]

Im nuetral now, like i told you guys...you want to kill me, and you will lose. Its 3-2 likely, so miss and you lose. Anxiety is immune, so i pray its not him, becuase hes not dying.

Why is Anxiety immune?

[path12]

I have also decided to pass one of my guns and some bullets on to somebody i trust. if they choose to reveal here they got the gun, its up to them

So whoever got the gun shot LSG as I see it. She didn't trust Blade, she trusted myself and SnDvls and Chief. I didn't get a gun and Chief is dead.

VOTE SNDVLS

[Blade6119]

Why is Anxiety immune?

he was selected by yesterday's Head of the lynch mob(me). Yesterday i was immune from lynch, becuase whoever had the role two days ago selected me. The role itself seems to pass randomly, but whoever has it holds both the tie-breaker that day and the ability to make anyone but yourself immune during the next lynch(not the day you have it).

I think its the same power that saved chief 2 days ago..i dont know who has the role now, but i know i had it yesterday and picked anxiety to be safe today

[path12]

he was selected by yesterday's Head of the lynch mob(me). Yesterday i was immune from lynch, becuase whoever had the role two days ago selected me. The role itself seems to pass randomly, but whoever has it holds both the tie-breaker that day and the ability to make anyone but yourself immune during the next lynch(not the day you have it).

I think its the same power that saved chief 2 days ago..i dont know who has the role now, but i know i had it yesterday and picked anxiety to be safe today

Gotcha. I had forgotten about that, I had it a few days ago.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

he was selected by yesterday's Head of the lynch mob(me). Yesterday i was immune from lynch, becuase whoever had the role two days ago selected me. The role itself seems to pass randomly, but whoever has it holds both the tie-breaker that day and the ability to make anyone but yourself immune during the next lynch(not the day you have it).

I think its the same power that saved chief 2 days ago..i dont know who has the role now, but i know i had it yesterday and picked anxiety to be safe today

Just so I'm clear (because your use of yesterday/today is confusing me):

You were Head of the lynch mob Thursday
Anxiety is the Head Friday
Chief was the Head Wednesday

Correct?

[SnDvls]

So whoever got the gun shot LSG as I see it. She didn't trust Blade, she trusted myself and SnDvls and Chief. I didn't get a gun and Chief is dead.

VOTE SNDVLS

I'd say she passed the gun to Anxiety, and no I don't think he killed her either, since you said you couldn't protect him and she was again voting him Judge from one of her last posts. She didn't like JE accusing her so I'd have to guess he didn't get the gun. You also have to realize that Blade is the pawn shop owner he can get a gun whenever he wants. He's too smart a player to still be around and then not know if there was still a gun in play. Swaggs (good), LSG (good) and Blade(?? says neutral again) all cleared me...LSG did it yesterday (she was good)...and then there was a kill today/tonight. so unless the mafia can do a kill and a conversion......which if you look back doesn't look like it's happend yet...I'm still good.

BTW I sent in to protect Chief with the head of lynch mob because I knew he was good from my investigation. I'd like someone to dispute that too.

[SnDvls]

Just so I'm clear (because your use of yesterday/today is confusing me):

You were Head of the lynch mob Thursday
Anxiety is the Head Friday
Chief was the Head Wednesday

Correct?

I was it and protected it on Chief
?? was next and according to Blade he was protected
Blade was yesterday and he says Anxiety is protected

[Abe Sargent]

Blade, JE - you guys seeing what I'm seeing? Path and SnDvls fighting over who got the gun? No, btw, it was NOT me, she expressed that she no longer trusted me and voted for me at one point in time. It probably wasn;t Blade. Not Cheif Rum, obviously.

[path12]

if me, path, sndvls, and cheif all vote for me as judge then we will be set...

I'd say she passed the gun to Anxiety, and no I don't think he killed her either, since you said you couldn't protect him and she was again voting him Judge from one of her last posts.

Not according to that. And Blade can't get a gun 'whenever he wants', my understanding is that he has to get the store inventory from whatever is in 'wholesale' (for lack of a better word). Besides, LSG had big problems with Anxiety offing King, and he was trying to get a gun to protect himself from her. No way she gave it to him. She trusted me, you and Chief......and like I said, Chief is dead and I didn't get a gun.

What I should have done is not listened to her saying she could protect herself yesterday.

[path12]

Blade, JE - you guys seeing what I'm seeing? Path and SnDvls fighting over who got the gun? No, btw, it was NOT me, she expressed that she no longer trusted me and voted for me at one point in time. It probably wasn;t Blade. Not Cheif Rum, obviously.

Boy, Abe. A finger-pointing post like that really makes me think you're bad. I just don't think that LSG gave you the gun.......but you're second on my list after SnDvls.

[Abe Sargent]

Boy, Abe. A finger-pointing post like that really makes me think you're bad. I just don't think that LSG gave you the gun.......but you're second on my list after SnDvls.

See, you say you didn't, SnDvls says he didn't, I for sure know it wasn;t me and I doubt blade did.

JE, what about you? Are you engunned?

[Blade6119]

Do you really believe the mafia is going to say "ya, she passed it to me...i killed her"....?

Anxiety, im not sure what your going after with having everyone say they dont have the gun...seems like in the early game checking is as a villager. To me it means nothing.

[Blade6119]

Sndvls is more likely to me, considering she got the gun from him. Since she trusted him, simply giving it back to him would be the logical play. Especially if you believe path to be the BG, as the bodyguard can seeminly protect themselves.'

And remember, LSG knew well that JE didnt trust her...its a key reason she swapped to chief. So i highly doubt she would pass it to him.

She voted anxiety, so not there. And i know she didnt give it to me, and i even if i didnt it wouldnt make sense considering her lack of trust in me.

Sndvls makes sense to me...but so did chief, so who knows

[Jonathan Ezarik]

LSG didn't pass anything to me, and I don't think she passed it to Blade or Anxiety (she even made a comment earlier to Blade about not selling a gun to him). It's possible that she passed it to Chief, but why? She would have known that he was going to be lynched. That leaves SnDvls and path.

Path is really confusing me. He's all but come out and claimed to be the bodyguard, but is this true? From the description I have, the bodyguard was ex-special ops. He claims to have been the jailer that upgraded to bodyguard. I would think that the bodyguard role would have been in play from the very beginning. It makes sense to me that the jailer could move up and become a detective (remember, LSG believed that another detective is still in play since she tried to pick up a warrant but was told that someone else had already taken it. She also knew that path was on the payroll of the Big City government, and a BG wouldn't be paid by the city). And if the jailer was susceptible to bribes, he's clearly not on the side of good. Probably neutral, but one that could be converted.

There are two problems I have with my own theory.

1) if path isn't the BG, who is? No one else has claimed it, and no one who has died has that profession listed

2) all this is assuming that there are only two guns in play. If there are more, then we should be looking at Anxiety, Blade, and myself

[Jonathan Ezarik]

More questions I have regarding path:

Why can't he come out and say what his role is? Why would the BG have to keep quiet? Is it because he's not the BG and thinks that if he comes out and admits to it, the real BG will call him out?

[SnDvls]

Not according to that. And Blade can't get a gun 'whenever he wants', my understanding is that he has to get the store inventory from whatever is in 'wholesale' (for lack of a better word). Besides, LSG had big problems with Anxiety offing King, and he was trying to get a gun to protect himself from her. No way she gave it to him. She trusted me, you and Chief......and like I said, Chief is dead and I didn't get a gun.

What I should have done is not listened to her saying she could protect herself yesterday.


I see you must have missed these two quotes that happen to bookend your LSG quote
and, how am i working with sndvls and cheif? If i was working with them i would have voted for you.... i didn't, i voted for anxiety

so I guess she could have changed her vote in 7 mins, but with neither you nor I confirming with her that we voted for her as judge any rational person would not move there vote at this point.

well je thinks im bad, so he will go with you.

But path knows that I am good because i know he is good... but that doesn't mean he will follow me.

Why would cheif send me a jewel and sndvls a gun?
..... but it is weird that he 'found a gun' and got lucky twice.
Anxiety found something once, and so did i. What are the chances he found something twice?

I am not 100% on chief, and if he dies tonight and is good, blade dies tomorrow

unvote anxiety

vote chief rum

bolded part mine
sounds like you got the gun after all.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Headed off to work.

VOTE PATH

[path12]

I see you must have missed these two quotes that happen to bookend your LSG quote

and, how am i working with sndvls and cheif? If i was working with them i would have voted for you.... i didn't, i voted for anxiety

That was the vote to lynch Anxiety, not vote him for judge. You said she voted him judge. She later unvoted him and voted Chief for the lynch.

well je thinks im bad, so he will go with you.

But path knows that I am good because i know he is good... but that doesn't mean he will follow me.

Why would cheif send me a jewel and sndvls a gun?
..... but it is weird that he 'found a gun' and got lucky twice.
Anxiety found something once, and so did i. What are the chances he found something twice?

I am not 100% on chief, and if he dies tonight and is good, blade dies tomorrow

unvote anxiety

vote chief rum


bolded part mine
sounds like you got the gun after all.

How does that show I got the gun? All that shows is that she trusted me, as she trusted you. You're grasping at straws to make that an accusation of me. I'm very comfortable in my vote on you, because I don't see any other logical person that she could have given the gun to. I have no weapons other than a bulletproof vest, which I was given when I switched jobs.

[path12]

More questions I have regarding path:

Why can't he come out and say what his role is? Why would the BG have to keep quiet? Is it because he's not the BG and thinks that if he comes out and admits to it, the real BG will call him out?

JE, think about that. As you've rightly mentioned, I've done all I could to hint at my role. When I was hired I was sworn to secrecy, as to why I don't know but it's a fact. If there was another person with the role they would have come out against me already, since it's pretty obvious what I'm claiming.

[Abe Sargent]

Unvote Blade


Seems like we have an either or going on here, and Blade ain;t part of the situation.

[Blade6119]

So you buy armor, gloves, guns and bullets from me and vote for me to die since you dont need me anymore? I see how it is.

Just as a reminder in this whole gun debate, this was bsaks last post in the game(directed at sndvls). So its very possible chief gave him the gun and he passed it on because he already had one. Consider that, that even if LSG passed it to path, sndvls still could have a gun(or more, since it says guns).

[path12]

If anyone has the ability to check out what I've got feel free. I've got nothing to hide except my job description.

[Abe Sargent]

Just as a reminder in this whole gun debate, this was bsaks last post in the game(directed at sndvls). So its very possible chief gave him the gun and he passed it on because he already had one. Consider that, that even if LSG passed it to path, sndvls still could have a gun(or more, since it says guns).

I suspected this was bsak just trying to sow dissent.

[Abe Sargent]

So where is our vote going? Blade? JE? Voting Path or SnDvls?

[Blade6119]

I suspected this was bsak just trying to sow dissent.

We all felt that..consider though that we know bsak was a converted mafia now(he was the drug dealer, and one of the newspapers reported new drug trade). So they converted him, and likely he immediately sold them helpful items(makes sense to in my mind). As he dies, is it out of the real of imagination he was pissed that the mafia who converted him and used his goods helped kill him? Its interesting to look back on in my opinion.

[Blade6119]

So where is our vote going? Blade? JE? Voting Path or SnDvls?

likely sndvls...im trying to decide in my head if first of all we have a bodyguard this game(as i havent seen path prove it in any way, by use of powers or checkable facts). If i believe sndvls reporter role is good, or was able to be converted. Remember, swaggs checked sndvls and found out info. Sndvls revealed before swaggs was killed, and i think swaggs confirmed it. So that means either the role is evil(which i doubt) or he was converted if hes evil. My problem with that is were supposed to still have a muscle role(if its actually in the game, as not all listen ones are). In my encounter, whoever grabbed me was strong...so i would think it is. So if you believe swaggs was right about sndvls actually being the reporter, then you have to assume hes not the muscle. But Path, a supposedly ex-special forces who cant reveal his role...he would be strong.

So im not sure anxiety, but those are the lines of thought im looking around

[Blade6119]

and as i wrote that, my mind has changed to path...so im very much in the air

[SnDvls]

Just as a reminder in this whole gun debate, this was bsaks last post in the game(directed at sndvls). So its very possible chief gave him the gun and he passed it on because he already had one. Consider that, that even if LSG passed it to path, sndvls still could have a gun(or more, since it says guns).


no offense blade but DT and St. C said the same things...here's DT's about you.

When I come up the mafia boss (and I will), you all need to believe me...blade is the new heir. You can kill everyone else in the game, but you won't win and you'll keep losing villagers until you kill blade.


again why would I want to kill off LSG who confirmed I was good YESTERDAY...not on day 2...not 4 days ago...YESTERDAY.
Everyone who has said I was good has been killed except for Blade.

[SnDvls]

if blade isn't bad then it's path
if it's not path it's blade

LSG hinted at someone else picking up a warrent
Anxiety told of someone taking one on me and making it disappear
all of this while I was cleared by LSG too. Something doesn't doesn't add
up.

[Blade6119]

How did LSG clear you if there was no search warrant?

[Blade6119]

no offense blade but DT and St. C said the same things...here's DT's about you.




again why would I want to kill off LSG who confirmed I was good YESTERDAY...not on day 2...not 4 days ago...YESTERDAY.
Everyone who has said I was good has been killed except for Blade.

Everyone who said i was good is dead too...lsg, swaggs, DT, cronin, bsak lol.

Sndvls, you can do what you will...im not evil, and now im not really good anymore. I can win with either side, and as such im trying to let the others decide their fate. I dont want to be blamed for screwing the good guys after working literally all game to get their victory. And if i picked wrong today, being nuetral, people would think i meant to pick wrong.

[SnDvls]

i sent my day action in for sndvls




here she mentions her day action


also , i just got results back and sure enough, SNDVLS is clean as a whistle.



and here she mentions I'm cleared

[SnDvls]

Sndvls, you can do what you will...im not evil, and now im not really good anymore. I can win with either side, and as such im trying to let the others decide their fate. I dont want to be blamed for screwing the good guys after working literally all game to get their victory. And if i picked wrong today, being nuetral, people would think i meant to pick wrong.

then who is 'cause it isn't me either.

unvote blade

you've at least listened to reason today and backed off me a bit it's only fair I do the same.

[SnDvls]

vote path

self preservation at this point

[Blade6119]

I will say this about lsg now thats shes dead(i didnt want to piss her off and get an argument since i trusted her). She checks for fingerprints to clear somone...bsak, who was evil, was selling fingerprint blockers. So whoever is mafia was basically immune to LSGs scans. So while its nice she cleared you, i dont put any stock into it(or any of her scans).

Especially if she used a day action and not a search warrant, as a warrant would have found any guns or what not you may or may not have

[SnDvls]

Everyone who said i was good is dead too...lsg, swaggs, DT, cronin, bsak lol.



I wouldn't say DT said you were good :)
LSG did say you were good on day 2
I don't remember what day Swaggs check you I'd have to go back and look again.

[Blade6119]

But, path fits the description of mucular and strong...the same type of guy who tried to convert me

[Blade6119]

I wouldn't say DT said you were good :)
LSG did say you were good on day 2
I don't remember what day Swaggs check you I'd have to go back and look again.
On day one he said i was his most trusted after i scanned him...he didnt clear me, but he did say he believed me to be generally good.

Then of course he and cronin and bsak(who all stated they trusted me on day one) swapped to me day 2 :)

[SnDvls]

But, path fits the description of mucular and strong...the same type of guy who tried to convert me

do what you want Blade...I'm not ready to let the mafia win on this one.

[SnDvls]

On day one he said i was his most trusted after i scanned him...he didnt clear me, but he did say he believed me to be generally good.

Then of course he and cronin and bsak(who all stated they trusted me on day one) swapped to me day 2 :)

they all had the same responses as they were going down too...So and So is Bad!!! Which either means you and I are both bad or people are trying to set us up.

[Blade6119]

they all had the same responses as they were going down too...So and So is Bad!!! Which either means you and I are both bad or people are trying to set us up.

Yes and no...no offense intended to bsak, but bsak is a newer player. And, he was converted unlike DT and cronin(cronin never said anything, by the by...ironically, he was killed by barkeep, a fellow mafia man who held the tie that day).

Just saying, i view bsak in a totally different light then the others since he did not start off evil, and is somewhat less experienced.

[SnDvls]

Without giving everything away (his potential occupation), I would say his items indicate that he is a family man and gave me an idea of what type of wealth he has (I'll leave that up to him to reveal, if he chooses), but not much to give me any impression that he is doing anything shady.

Again, I appreciate your line of questioning to pull things together, but as I said, if SnDvls wants to make what type of money he has public, he may do so. In my opinion, there is a bit of benefit to keeping that underwraps, so I will respect him in that manner. If I thought he was shady, I would let everyone know.

here's Swaggs info on me
and Lathum brought up the word "family" which Swaggs quickly dismissed as meaning I have children.

if I re-read/caculated it right this was day 4 before Marathoner was lynched. Though it could have been day 5...the newspapers don't have what day we're in.

[Blade6119]

What day(real life date, like the 1st or 9th) did swaggs die?

[SnDvls]

What day(real life date, like the 1st or 9th) did swaggs die?

3-5-07

[SnDvls]

dola - same day we lost Lathum

[Blade6119]

Ok sndvls...i hate to pick on you, but path just doesnt have info out there to pick on.

Swaggs never mentioned anything about you being a reporter..i just look through his posts, and he never did. He mentions family, and that he wants to keep your money situation private.I did note however, he was murdered by the mafia the day before you revealed.


Heres the key now i never got..in my mind it totally explains bsak blowing your cover:okay I feel safe to come out now althought I do know there is at least one more mafia member out there.
I'm the investigative reporter...I was able to find out that bsak had sold a gun to DaddyTorgo a few nights ago, but I thought it was lost when he was lynched. Either it didn't happen or bsak got another one. I do know he was good to start with and was converted.
I want to see if the other mafia member slips up before I let anymore info out today.

Your the one that gave us bsak...you sold him down the river here, and if you did that he would have every reason in the world to screw you right back.

Again, this is all predicated upon you being evi

[Blade6119]

3-5-07

thanks...i was checking since i saw you revealed on 3-6-07

[path12]

Since I can't reveal any specifics, I can't put up much of a fight. I will simply point out two things:

1) If you vote me then good will likely lose this game.
2) You know that the person who protests the most in these either/or situations is usually the bad one.

I've told you everything I can. I started out neutral as the jailer. I answered the ad and became good. I tried to steer you all to vote different people as judge in order to maximize my usefulness. I was trusted by LSG.

My theory hasn't changed. LSG said she passed a gun and bullets to someone. She did not indicate trust of JE, Blade or Anxiety at that time. She did not pass me anything. She was shot. SnDvls is the only choice left, and he has worked very hard to try and convince you of facts that are demonstrably not true (LSG voted Anxiety for judge; the fact that she included me on her trusted list means she must have sent me the gun; etc.)

So it's in your guys hands. That's the best I can give you. I'm good. Period.

[SnDvls]

Ok sndvls...i hate to pick on you, but path just doesnt have info out there to pick on.

Swaggs never mentioned anything about you being a reporter..i just look through his posts, and he never did. He mentions family, and that he wants to keep your money situation private.I did note however, he was murdered by the mafia the day before you revealed.

he actually doesn't mention my role at all and even drops hints that he doesn't want to reveal what it is.


Heres the key now i never got..in my mind it totally explains bsak blowing your cover:

Your the one that gave us bsak...you sold him down the river here, and if you did that he would have every reason in the world to screw you right back.

Again, this is all predicated upon you being evi

again when I voted Bsak It was 2 on CR 2 on King and 1 on Bsak.
I put #2 on him and then it was a runaway...I didn't even get back on until after lynch. If it were Bsak and I left that would a dumb move, I hope I'm a better WW player than that. Who would want to be at 7-2 at that point in the game?

[Blade6119]

he actually doesn't mention my role at all and even drops hints that he doesn't want to reveal what it is.



again when I voted Bsak It was 2 on CR 2 on King and 1 on Bsak.
I put #2 on him and then it was a runaway...I didn't even get back on until after lynch. If it were Bsak and I left that would a dumb move, I hope I'm a better WW player than that. Who would want to be at 7-2 at that point in the game?

7-2 but hopefully totally cleared..you dint just vote bsak, you flat out told us he was evil. It mattered little if there were 0 or 100 votes on him, if you say that hes dead.

And im still of the impression there are two of you left and were at end game if we miss, so if there were 3 of you it would be easy to cast him aside(ie, JE started independant).

[Blade6119]

and anxiety may have too...especially with his warrant for you dissapearing and i believe you too both voting me the exact same time last night. He is actually pretty heavily linked to you

[SnDvls]

7-2 but hopefully totally cleared..you dint just vote bsak, you flat out told us he was evil. It mattered little if there were 0 or 100 votes on him, if you say that hes dead.

And im still of the impression there are two of you left and were at end game if we miss, so if there were 3 of you it would be easy to cast him aside(ie, JE started independant).

I was then searched/scanned by LSG after this vote too. (weather you like her results or not)
Blade like I said before do what you want I like you believe this is end game.
I'm leaving work early today so I hope the right decison is made.

[Blade6119]

I think the vote count is

Path - 2
Sndvls - 1

If im not mistaken

[Blade6119]

By the way sndvls, sorry for the late reply but i hit you back up on the other forum. Technically, the game at tempe will be a home game for me too so im happy :)

[Abe Sargent]

No votes by me yet. I'm leaning SnDvls at this point.

[Abe Sargent]

I'm going to go ahead and vote SnDvls now. I'll try to check back in before deadline to catch up, and its possibl I coul dbe convinced to hop to path.

[Blade6119]

So its 2-2 after his vote and there are 5 players...so basically the fate of the game is in my hands.

Well, i guess what they say about winners always want the ball in their hands when the game is on the line is going to be tested. Let me put some more thought into this

[SnDvls]

By the way sndvls, sorry for the late reply but i hit you back up on the other forum. Technically, the game at tempe will be a home game for me too so im happy :)

no prob I posted a response there too

[Blade6119]

Anxiety, you going to vote?

[Blade6119]

im leaning path now

[Alan T]

The Big City Herald
Edition 35

Mob Mayhem

The Big story today has been the complete lack of law and order in the town square. Normally police would provide some disclipline to the chaos of people shouting and yelling for people's heads. Today the police are hard to find, and there have been many cases of pushing, shoving, fighting and even personal attacks.

Shots heard

Just a little bit ago, shots were heard from nearby to the town square. As of yet, the herald has been unable to track down a police representative to get a public statement. We currently are not sure which direction the shots came from, nor do we know the severity of the attack. Anyone who plans to travel to town square today should think of safety first.

Bulletproof vest manufacturer mystified

A few months ago, the herald ran a story on a new bulletproof vest that a local Big City manufacturer had produced. Their claim was that it would be revolutionary in the war to protect people from harm. They felt if every citizen equiped themselves with a bulletproof vest, the number of deaths would drop tenfold. Just today the Big City Vest manufacturers have announced they will be taking the vests off the market. Their spokesperson told the Herald,"We had great hopes that people would cling to our vest.. but the reality is that they did not embrace it. We no longer can sustain the losses in making it so unfortunatly are no longer going to be producing it."

[Abe Sargent]

Anxiety, you going to vote?

Sorry, thought I already had.

Vote SnDVLS

[path12]

So Blade didn't vote? I guess he's covered either way.

[Alan T]

deadline

[Alan T]

Current Judge: Anxiety

In Jail: None

Warrants: None

Injuries: None

Job Openings: None

Pawn Shop items for sell: Closed

[Alan T]

The Big City Herald
Edition 37

Pawn Shop Closed

The official announcement has been released, the Big City Pawn shop has officially closed for good. The local store stated the inability to keep upper management was the primary factor in the store's closing. It appears local residents will now have to resort to K-mart for their daily needs.

Mob out of control

As previously mentioned in the Herald, the Mob today grew even more unruly as the day went on. Without the influence of a local police force to curtail it, the Mob started looting local stores and resorted to various forms of vandalism. In a heroic effort to try to contain the mob, a brave man wearing some form of body armor tried to hold them back. There just were too many of them, and he ended up dying due to being trampled. Has Big City lost control?

Local stores receive threats

In a new development, most local Big City stores today received a letter that contained a pretty strong threat. The Herald has received a copy of one such letter and have seen that it states the following:

We are taking control of this town. If you do not wish to purchase monthly protection from us, we are afraid very bad things might happen to you. Our representatives will be around weekly to receive payment, starting tommorrow evening.

[SnDvls]

wow...what the hell just happened?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Well, crap. I'm 0 for 2 now. So either SnDvls or Anxiety is the last mafia member. Unfortunately, both of you guys look evil to me. SnDvls could have killed Blade to keep him from voting for him, and Anxiety could have killed him to keep a tie vote and use his power as Head of the Mob to take care of path. Ugh.

[Alan T]

Sorry, didn't bring up weekend schedule. Since there are a few of you left, I will let you all decide. If you want to put in your day actions, and votes to me you can also choose to vote nightfall (meaning your action/vote is final). If you arent sure that you might want to change it then don't choose nightfall.

Any objections with Saturday 9pm EST deadline? If any of you three can't be here then we'll do sunday 9pm EST. But we probably can wrap this game up fairly soon.

[SnDvls]

no prob here PM info sent to Alan

[Abe Sargent]

Vote SnDvls


Nothing will get me to change that vote.

JE, we know either path or SnDvls got the gun from LSG. It wasn't path. SnDvls lied. That's clear. It was an either or proposition, and now we must take out SnDvls. Simple. Elegant even.

-Anxiety

AlanT - you can do any sort of accelerated game that you prefer. Vote tomorrow at 9:00 pm, until we get three votes in an hour or a few, whatever.

[path12]

Good game, guys.

[Alan T]

The Big City Herald
Final Edition

Game Moderator killed

In what can only be classified as senseless violence, while trying to set up a schedule for weekend play the game moderator has been killed. The final scenes went as follows:

In a shocking turn of events, the people of Big City could not be contained any longer. Full bore chaos had set in. Parts of the city was set on fire, people left and right were being injured. Without the police, no one could keep the city together. In what was a last ditch effort to save the town the good doctor and town judge tried to keep everyone calm.

Right in front of everyone's eyes on the steps to town hall, Sndvls walks up from behind the two and shoots Jonathan Ezarik in the back. Anxiety looks around to try to find someone, anyone to turn to for help but finds no friends around him. The Mafia was completely in control of Big City.

Game Over, the Mafia has won

Major victories:

Barkeep
Daddytorgo
Sndvls


Minor victories:

Anxiety
Bsak
Imthecrew
Marathoner
Narcizo
St.Cronin
Tyrith

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gm comments about the game:

A few things that I didn't forsee that I think had some effect on the game.. The Biggest failure for the good guys was the lack of making use of items in the game. There were quite a number of items that could have helped save lifes and hardly any of the good guys took advantage of them:

Bulletproof vest - If shot as a mafia night action, you are not instantly dead. You are in critical condition. If not treated before the end of the next game day, you will die. If the doctor treats you, then you will progressively get better over the course of two days.

Bandages - Needed by the doctor to save lifes (as said in his personal role PM to start the game)

Knifes - If facing a kidnap, pickpocket or mafia attack that does not use a gun, the knife gives you a 50/50 chance of fighting off the attacker

Gun - Only really an advantage to people with daytime kill actions. Downside to using a gun is if a gun was found in a search warrant, the ballistics trace would tell the police which of the investigated crimes that gun was used for.

----------------------------------------------

The other big hurdle the good side had is that I don't think the detectives ever made full use of their abilities. Part of that was due to Tyrith dying so early. Not sure why he came out openly so early in the game, but in doing so, it really kept information detectives received to a minimum throughout the game.

Detectives had the following actions:

Search warrant - Needed a judge to issue. The most powerful search, would find fingerprint info./dna info and any items the person had. Would be able to cross reference any of that with anything else in the police database.

Investigate Crimescene - With 3 detectives, its pretty important for 1 of the detectives to have investigated murder scenes to collect the ballistics info/fingerprints/etc. With one of the detectives dying day 1, this became a problem.

Research Person in the computer - This really was a fairly powerless search, all it really did was tell a detective info that a different detective had found out about someone. It really was mainly meant as a way for a detective to prove themselves to another detective for trust. I think this action was used too much in the game even though I pretty much came out and suggested to the detectives it not be used :)

--------------------------------------------------------------------

To start the game, I was worried that the bad guys would lose really fast. I don't see any logical reason to expect the only two mafia members to be outed on day 1 and 2. They were smart in how they used the underground messageboard to find another 2 people to quickly recruit in and save the game for them. The mafia could not convert anyone who was good. The only options they had was to convert one of the 4 people who started bad but not part of the mafia family, or try to convert one of the neutrals. (For instance Bsak as a neutral decided to convert on his own, Chief Rum decided to turn good on his own). The bad guys were given a way to get alot of people to their side, but only people who already started off shady or at best neutral. To combat that, the good guys were given several roles who together would have no problem piecing together who the shady people were vs not shady. It then would have been a problem figuring out which were neutral and which were bad.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Roles:

Mafia:

1. Boss St.cronin -
2. Mafia Heir (setup man) DaddyTorgo
-----------
3. Thug Marathoner
4. Kidnapper Sndvls
5. Hacker Barkeep49
6. Pickpocket ImTheCrew



Detectives:
7. 1 Lathum
8. 2 Ntndeacon
9. 3 Lonestargirl
11.Police Dispatcher Tyrith
12.Firewall specialist Anxiety



Professionals:

13.Banker Narcizo
14.Doctor Jonathan Ezarik
15.Janitor Swaggs
16.Jeweler Blade6119



Independants:

10.Jailer Path12
17.Pawn Shop owner Bsak16
18.Escaped Dillusional mental patient Hoopsguy
19.Card player kingfc22
20.Sports Gambler Chief Rum

[SnDvls]

vote SnDvls Judge :D

[Barkeep49]

What could Tyrith do as police dispatcher?

[Barkeep49]

Well I played a real poor game. I knew I was becoming the next Don and left my money in the bank so that when I inherited the money I suddenly had a large addition of money in my account. Alan reminded me it was in the bank, as a hint for me to take it out, but I thought it'd be even more suspicious to withdraw the money, not knowing the banker only got nightly updates and so I'd have been able to move the money safely. I also blew it with Lathum as it took me WAY too long to realize he was a police officer. I should have realized this right away but didn't. The game was a lot of fun and I'm amazed SnDvls was able to pull it out. Great job!

[SnDvls]

okay so like I'm going to be one of the most hated players in this game.

I was user #6 on the UMB and Kidnapper with my 1st major victory being to join the mafia family.

My first post on the UMB was that I wanted a gun and ammo. Bsak was the first response and offerd them for like $1200...I started w/ $500. Also the mafia contacted me privatly on there as well to take out Anxiety ($500) or Blade ($800) I told them sure, but I needed some money up front and got $400. I then told Bsak I found another gun and to forget it...then after I got the extra $400 tried to get it again at a well below market price. Soon there after I got recruited and accepted into the mafia...this was the same day Blade was accusing St. C and I as his #'s 1 & 2 suspects (he got lucky with me as I wasn't bad until the accusation)....***continued***

[SnDvls]

***after joining the mafia I got a 2nd major victory condition (kidnap DaddyTorgo and hold him for 3 days then kill him). I also didn't let bsak know I was in the mafia, but we had confirmed who each other was at this point so he knew I was bad and I knew he was "an underground arms dealer" as we called him on the UMB. Meanwhile DT & St.C had made contact w/ Barkeep and were in the process of recruiting him...though they didn't know it was him. Mistake #1 for the mafia happened here, we had agreed to recruit BK, but St. C went for Anxiety and it failed, then he was voted out and now we're down to 2 members again. *****

[SnDvls]

Oh I forgot I lied about my role to St. C & DT at first as I mulled over my 2nd Major victory condition..then decided to come clean and let them know about it, but I lied to them again and said I gain a new ability...to kidnap :)

****DT and I decide to bring in BK and keep Bsak as the next guy in, Bsak is still lead to believe I'm not in the "family" yet. Bsak is brought in and the gun that DT had is lost with his lynch and he killed with it. I get Body Armor and gloves to help with my killing. Then we lose BK and DT, a couple lucky lynches and lucky kidnaps (Tyrith and Lathum both gave me way too much info as Hostages, but I think they thought I'd let them go...it was never my intention once I got their role from them) and Bsak and I are still in it...then I make a huge error....I needed to put a vote in as I was going to be out so I voted Bsak to make a 3-way tie @ 2...turns out everyone piled on him and he outs me in the thread....I'm cleared by Swaggs just prior to this after Blade got no info about me a few days earlier..****

[Alan T]

Mafia:

1. Boss - The current boss is the one who had to put the kill orders in. The design was the boss had the ability to try to hire out people outside of the mafia to do their work for them so the boss would never show up on police scans or such. Most scans of the boss would have him show up like other townspeople with decents amounts of money. With the way the first day went, that totally made that not happen.

2. Mafia Heir (setup man) - The Heir was on the mafia side, but in some ways designed to cause tension in the mafia. For the Heir to win, the boss had to die. The heir also had the ability to set up someone else once for a crime that they committed. Obviously this never happened either in this game.
-----------
3. Thug - The Thug was designed as a good person to carry out most of the kills. His special ability was that he could rarely have his kill action occur before the imposed 6pm EST time for the mafia actions. ie: he could kill someone first thing in the morning.

4. Kidnapper - Was able to kidnap someone once every 3 days. This role was set up as a way to get info from other people, extort others or even be a kill action. Sndvls ended up only using this to kill both Tyrith and Lathum. Lathum had a knife, but at that point, Sndvls had a gun so was able to kidnap him.

5. Hacker - This was the other info gaining person in the mafia. The hacker basically would give rough clues of what type of people they looked at. The hacker also could get quite rich if they hacked the banker. The downside to the hacker is they could easily be caught if they did not spend money to use the internet cafe. Since Barkeep never used the internet cafe, he was found fairly easily. That didn't come into play though since his lynch was moreso due to money handling :)

6. Pickpocket - pretty self explanitory. The main thing here is if the pickpocket joined the mafia, he gained a bigger role (Anyone who met their personal goals got rewarded with either a new role, new ability or reward challenge. The pickpocket would then have been able to break into homes to still money or items. He never made it into the mafia though.



Detectives: - Already explained
7. 1
8. 2
9. 3
11.Police Dispatcher - The police dispatcher could once a day send a message to all alive detectives. They could tell them anything they knew other than mention their name to try to setup a CoT. They found out any actions the detectives did, they found out any time a crime was reported and they had the ability to help direct the detectives as a whole to let them know what each other were doing. This never happened and was probably a huge missing piece for the good guys.

12.Firewall specialist - You probably figured out what he was able to do. Anxiety probably was the good guy who played his role to its fullest capability (Narcizo also did probably)



Professionals:

13.Banker - Each night at 9pm EST the banker received a listing of everyone's accounts in the bank. This led to the actual capture of Barkeep during the game.

14.Doctor - A wounded patient can do day actions that do not require movement such as voting, warrants, etc. A critical patient can not do any actions. The doctor if healing a wounded patient healed them (such as he did with Hoopsguy), if he heals a critical patient, that patient becomes only wounded. A critical patient not treated had a chance of dying. Since almost no one used body armor or knifes, the doctor was more insignificant than he should have been.

15.Janitor - His main goal was to help the good guys win and pick up money on the way. The janitor was poor, so poor to not be able to afford protection. if he found someone like the banker, he would have found some account slip and been able to get money from that account. If he found someone who kept their money at home, he had a chance of "finding" some of their money (such as Blade) Everyone else they just found two small clues that could be pieced together to explain someone's role, but not what allegiance someone had.

16.Jeweler - This role was another role designed to try to have a good role that could seem shady. The jewler needed to find two rare gems that they could buy. Along the way they could find out info on how much money someone started with by their ring. Since the money was evenly split throughout both sides, this was meant to be more of a red herring than help. In this game's case, Blade felt with his gut that DaddyTorgo and Cronin were guilty and then used his "evidence" to support his beliefs. So he did well at guessing who the bad guys were, but got lucky with his evidence. If he had scanned Narcizo and Lonestargirl instead at the start, they would have had rings similar to what he saw on Cronin and DT. If the Jeweler met his goal, he would have been rewarded a one time ability to look at someone's family jewels and do a research on that family history and identify if they came from the mafia or not.


Independants:

10.Jailer - This role was setup as the tripwire for the detectives. He was on the city government payroll and thus showed up as such for Lonestargirl when she scanned PAth. He was neutral however, and his goal was to make money. The idea was more people would have been in prison that Path then could have interacted with and caused some alternate scenerios (such as King using his 1700 he had to break himself out of prison). Path instead decided to take up a job change offer and became good.

17.Pawn Shop owner - Neutral role designed to want money. because of such he should have been willing to get all kinds of items out to people. I don't think bsak necessarily played the role poorly, I think people were just hesitant to get items other than a few exceptions.

18.Escaped Dillusional mental patient - This was my fun role of the game. He had a list of people randomly picked who were out to get him. His goal was to see to the death of them to meet his objective. It was pretty funny for me when he was elected judge first, and I was sad he died. His list was:

Mental patient targets:

4 Bsak16
8 Lathum
18 Chief Rum
20 Lonestargirl
14 Barkeep49
12 Blade6119
16 Marathoner
17 Narcizo
2 Jonathan Ezarik

19.Card player
20.Sports Gambler

- These two gambler roles were something I wanted to try out. I'm not sure if I liked how out of the game they felt. They were the true neutrals of the game. I liked how Chief involved his role into the story though, king's was a bit more difficult to do so though. I gave both an option on switching jobs if they wanted to however.. The main focus here was that both of them needing money could be bought.. and with the underground board the mafia could have paid them off for their votes perhaps. That never happened either though.

[SnDvls]

****then I get the head of lynch mob role 2 days in a row and plan out my strategy...protect CR and also try and recuit him...I'm in a win/win either way...he says no and he's saved from a lynch people will go after him tomorrow...he says yes and I vote him and he turns up mafia I still get another day....next day I get the lynch mob again and put it on Blade and make my last effort to get at least one more mafia member to help me...everyone pretty much trusts him at this point so it was a last ditch effort...he refuses and now he's also safe from lynch...oops!!!....it was a hell of a ride that is for sure....soooo

sorry Hoops for killing you on your B-day
sorry Narc for killing you with one vote
sorry bsak for killing you with a misplaced vote
sorry everyone else....it was a hell of a game Alan my thoughts will follow shortly.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Bandages - Needed by the doctor to save lifes (as said in his personal role PM to start the game)

Wow. I totally missed this in the PM. In the end, I don't think it mattered. The only person I had the chance to heal was Hoopsguy. On the day he was killed, I visited him in the hospital because I wasn't sure if he needed more medical attention after Marathoner's attack, and since that was my one day action, when he got attacked later in the day I couldn't do anything to save him. I think the rest of the players that were killed I didn't find out about until they were already dead.

All in all, I pretty much sucked in this game. Not being able to be around during the day kept me out of the flow of the game and I never got a good handle on anyone. I'm glad SnDvls killed me there at the end to prevent me from having to make another mistake and voting for Anxiety (as I was leaning). It's probably a good thing that this will be my last WW game.

Thanks to Alan for a good game. Although I didn't get to dive into it like other games because of work, I did enjoy it.

[SnDvls]

oh ya and pass Blade his ring now

[SnDvls]

thanks Alan very fun game.

I think we were able to exploit the UMB a bit as you could see between bsak and I. This was pretty easy for the bad roles to do as no one could really find out who we were. I only posted one "public" message on there and it started to die down later in the game...but a great idea.

I felt like the mafia was behind the 8-ball all game and part of that is probally to Blade's ring check of St. C and a lucky hunch too...I never thought being down 8-1 would get me here that is for sure...a little luck went a long way. Might have been too many "seer" type roles in this game IMO. Plus with leaving evidence behind at crime scenes it made it even that much harder.

I always had to be careful about the "job postings" as I never got any info on one and never really knew if one was open as the newspaper never said until Bsak was killed so that really threw me for a loop.

Again over all great game I never thought I'd be here.

thanks all again

[Alan T]

Oh, and about the head of the lynch and the lucky person of the day.. those were two other things I wanted to try out..

Every day randomly one person was selected as each. Head of the lynch mob had that day's tiebreaker, and could pick one person to be immune from the next day's lynch. (Mini-duke powers).

The lucky person of the day could find either: Money, an item or a gem.

I don't think I liked how either ended up in the game though, mostly because random.org hates me passionately. Was something I wanted to try but won't do it again.

I also think that I liked the 24 hour clock a good bit, but I think some things need to be tweaked some with it to not give a bigger advantage to the bad guys.

Also, thanks everyone for playing. I hope you enjoyed it and tried to drop a personal pm note to each of you as you died. A few times in the game I wasn't super sharp because of everything I am dealing with, so it wasn't my smoothest game ever but I didn't see much that change the end outcome in any way. Personal apologies to Chief, who I did totally mess up with. I had a note to send from him all typed out and ready, and then never sent it (got distracted by doctors or something and never remembered I didn't send it).

[Alan T]

thanks Alan very fun game.

I think we were able to exploit the UMB a bit as you could see between bsak and I. This was pretty easy for the bad roles to do as no one could really find out who we were. I only posted one "public" message on there and it started to die down later in the game...but a great idea.

I felt like the mafia was behind the 8-ball all game and part of that is probally to Blade's ring check of St. C and a lucky hunch too...I never thought being down 8-1 would get me here that is for sure...a little luck went a long way. Might have been too many "seer" type roles in this game IMO. Plus with leaving evidence behind at crime scenes it made it even that much harder.

I always had to be careful about the "job postings" as I never got any info on one and never really knew if one was open as the newspaper never said until Bsak was killed so that really threw me for a loop.

Again over all great game I never thought I'd be here.

thanks all again


I actually intended for the bad guys to use the UMB to that extent. I felt it would give an advantage to the bad guys, but thats one of the reason there were so many roles that also gained information back. I think at times both sides got frustrated with limitations set on their roles too. Basically the idea was to try to give everyone in the game some kind of action or involvement. Doing so often tips the game into the good guy's favor though, so I needed a balance for the bad guys.

[Alan T]

Oh forgot, a few other things I didn't explain.

When the first judge in the game was killed by the mafia, it triggered a new job for people to apply for. The bodyguard role that path ended up getting. They basically had to sacrifice all of their money, items and couldn't do any vote or action for a day for a role they didn't have all of the info on before hand.

Once he got the role, he was given pretty strict limitations. He was not allowed to say he was the bodyguard to anyone. He was not allowed to guard himself, and he was not allowed to guard the same person more than once in the game. If he guarded someone who was attacked by any physical mean (Mafia, lynchmob, etc) He would throw himself in front of them and save them, taking their damage for them. He was given a bulletproof vest so if he had been shot, he wouldnt have been killed, but would have died without doctor's care. So if he got lucky with one protect, he could have had alot of trust in the game, and really made it very hard for the bad guys to win.


The other latent triggered action was the first time the judge made an error on their decision and sentenced an innocent man (kingfc22). It then gave the head of the mafia a one time power for the next day to block one of the judge's warrants. He had to choose beforehand if it would be the search or arrest warrant. In this game Sndvls picked the Search warrant, which Anxiety almost immediately used to issue for a search of Sndvls. That created some fun drama, but nothing much ever came from it I don't think. It wasn't blocked because it was of Sndvls, he just got lucky there. If sndvls had been searched, they would have found a gun that did multiple killings, and all kinds of other incriminating evidence. Even if the crime scenes had not been investigated, its really hard for me to think you all wouldn't have voted him out. I think king's death is probably what won the game for Sndvls.

[LoneStarGirl]

This game was extremely fun. I am glad I played, Alant you have some of the best games.

I never saw where it was hinted that detectives not use the computers to do their daily activities. I thought it was the best way to track people but in the end it didn't help me convict anybody, just clear people.

Also, I never did get to send my gun to anybody. I was going to do it after I saw if Cheif was good or bad. And seeing how chief was good, i probably would have sent it back to sndvls... so we would have been screwed either way.

[Lathum]

I got the message about the computer so I never used that option.

To be honest I wasn't sure how to play my role, there were some people I had semi cleared but to post that nformation would have gotten me killed so I wasn't sure what to do.

Once I was kidnapped I tried to convince my kidnappers I was the poker player and they could turn me, I was hoping to go under deep cover like Leonardo but that same day king came out and killed me. Had I gotten away with it who knows what would have happened.

[Alan T]

I got the message about the computer so I never used that option.

To be honest I wasn't sure how to play my role, there were some people I had semi cleared but to post that nformation would have gotten me killed so I wasn't sure what to do.

Once I was kidnapped I tried to convince my kidnappers I was the poker player and they could turn me, I was hoping to go under deep cover like Leonardo but that same day king came out and killed me. Had I gotten away with it who knows what would have happened.

I think thats one thing that was shortsighted on my part. The rules would have made it impossible for you to have converted since you were good. I wonder if instead, for the detectives, I should have given the possibility of going undercover or such like you say. I honestly didn't think the bad guys would have tried converting people without finding them via the UMB is all. I assumed the progression would have been:

Set up conversations through UMB, develop trust, attempt to convert.

When they didn't have a convert target, they just kill someone good. I think Blade hunting down Cronin and DT at the start really made alot of that rushed for the bad guys and put them in a real bad spot. I honestly started to worry day 1 if this would be the shortest WW game in history with both bad guys getting lynched day 1 and day 2

[kingfc22]

Alan - What would have happened if I would have been online and gone to the docks? What job would I have been given?

[Alan T]

Alan - What would have happened if I would have been online and gone to the docks? What job would I have been given?

The way I had it was there were only a handful of people who could switch jobs. (This was to keep some balance in the game). If multiple people went, then I did the following:

1) First person offered bodyguard role. They wern't described the full role but had to accept/decline with the rough introduction. If they turn it down, it went to the next person and so on until someone accepts it.

2) If another person still waiting for a job offer (whether second in line, third, fourth, whatever) they would have been given the chance at being the courthouse page. The page would have had the same powers as was executed by sndvls only activated if the judge sentenced an innocent person, but instead of the mafia boss getting the role the way it happened, it would have been a mafia informant role with that ability, but your powers wouldn't activate until the same latent trigger.

3) Anyone else that still hadn't been given an opportunity (however unlikely) would have been offered a job that opened next (pawn shop or jeweler.) Blade later on took the pawn shop role in fact.


I didn't really see most of the job moving to be key in the game, the main role that was key was the bodyguard. I mainly wanted to give those who had roles that were a bit more on the outside to be able to change to something else if they wern't enjoying it. Some people I assumed just wouldn't have much fun being a sports better and they came to play WW. I think in that sense, I was lucky at who got some of the roles, I thought Chief was a perfect person to be the sports better. I didn't get a good feel for how you (king) felt about the gambler.

[Abe Sargent]

And if Blade had joined us in lynchign SnDvls, the game would have been ours. Ah well, at least I was the last good guy left in teh end,.

[st.cronin]

Unbelievable game by SnDvls, just a hall of fame performance.

Also another great game by Alan, probably my favorite yet.

[Swaggs]

If Narcizo would have come out as the Banker a day earlier, I would have known that SnDvls was in the mafia. The clue I found in his trash was that he had a fine cloth napkin and a baby's rattle, so I assumed he was a well-to-do businessman from the napkin and that he was a good person, since he had a small child. Once I found out that JE was the doctor, I knew (since most of the remaining players' roles were out in the open) that SnDvls was either the Banker or mafia (likewise, I felt the same about Narcizo). SnDvls whacked me at just the right time.

Thanks for the game, Alan. The janitor role was pretty fun--I was surprised that I was not killed earlier, since I seemed to have some seer-like powers. I thought I played a pretty good game, with the exceptions being trusting SnDvls for too long and mentioning that (and probably outting) LSG had a picture of Chuck Norris, as once I heard about the Erik Estrada thing, I figured that each of the detectives must have had a sort of popular TV detective hero that they identified with.

[hoopsguy]

Had fun with the game. My biggest regret is that I didn't get Blade lynched on Day 2 - he was on my list and Cronin was not :) Seriously, I wonder just how different the game would have been if that had taken place.

I failed miserably at getting my targeted people eliminated - they kept being runner-up and the mob didn't do me any favors.

Really liked the game concept, wish I could have been around a little longer as it was potentially a fun role. But hard for me at times to put together coherent arguments and then act unstable in the next post ...

[Blade6119]

I waited too long on the final day to play sndvls...as Alan can attest, i was 99.9% sure it was sndvls...i was trying to walk him into a trap. I had a huge case ready to be posted to sway JE and win the thing, but sndvls killed me(even thought i could have won with him, the bastard).

I was right with DT, cronin, and sndvls(the three i listed at the time ironically, whether sndvls was evil yet or not). I mentioned bsak, but let it slide. Barkeep totally fooled me.


I think one of my biggest complaints with this game was seeing some mafia die and it not say mafia(ITC) while others did(barkeep). Linked to this, it would be nice in the future if the lynch post says who died...it got a little annoying having to keep going back to the main post.

Other then that, it was a good game...we had some great breaks early, then some terrible breaks late...I think it was tough with so many seers who could do very little(including the detectives) and the ability of the mafia to convert anyone we even remotely tried to clear.

Without DT and cronin dying early(and bsak setting himself up somewhat), i think we would have gotten blown out..so in that regard, im not sure how balanced i believe it was. But it was still great play by sndvls to keep being tomorrows lynch(after 3 seer scans too)

[Narcizo]

That has to have been the most frustrating couple of days I've ever experienced. I was (almost literally) screaming at you that it was SnDvls. I had presumed that LSG had been hinting at path being the detective. I thought he started neutral as the ex-Ops and then switched to a detective, which was why he lost money and LSG gained money at the same time. As soon as LSG made it clear that path wasn't the detective and that whoever was the detective wasn't picking up warrants I was pretty sure it was SnDvls. Then when Anxiety said the search warrant on SnDvls disappeared it pretty much confirmed it. (As I hinted in a PM with Alan).

Grrrrr.....

On the plus side I got a bad guy and I didn't even think he was one. I targeted Barkeep for purely selfish reasons, to ensure my victory conditions. I honestly didn't think he was in the mob.

[DaddyTorgo]

THAT'S FRIKKIN HOT...WE WON!!!!!

WOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[DaddyTorgo]

i <3 SNDVLS!!!!

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah blade. You've been playing out of your mind. Cronin and I about crapped our pants when you named us as mafia on D1 (or early on D2). And then to add SnDvls into that when we were just thinking of converting him...I gotta give props to everyone in the mafia who came after me and continued the recruiting, as after we went down 2 in the first 2 days that was the only way we had a chance.

and that was the point behind my whole dying statement of "you're actually worse off than you were d1". I figured that if we could recruit everyone in that was possible we could almost outwait the village and let them kill off each other here and there and then night-kill them and sneak a win.

i'm AMAZED SnDvls managed to last so long. Mind-boggling man. I know how that kind of isolation can be so hard.

[Alan T]

I waited too long on the final day to play sndvls...as Alan can attest, i was 99.9% sure it was sndvls...i was trying to walk him into a trap. I had a huge case ready to be posted to sway JE and win the thing, but sndvls killed me(even thought i could have won with him, the bastard).

I was right with DT, cronin, and sndvls(the three i listed at the time ironically, whether sndvls was evil yet or not). I mentioned bsak, but let it slide. Barkeep totally fooled me.


I think one of my biggest complaints with this game was seeing some mafia die and it not say mafia(ITC) while others did(barkeep). Linked to this, it would be nice in the future if the lynch post says who died...it got a little annoying having to keep going back to the main post.

Other then that, it was a good game...we had some great breaks early, then some terrible breaks late...I think it was tough with so many seers who could do very little(including the detectives) and the ability of the mafia to convert anyone we even remotely tried to clear.

Without DT and cronin dying early(and bsak setting himself up somewhat), i think we would have gotten blown out..so in that regard, im not sure how balanced i believe it was. But it was still great play by sndvls to keep being tomorrows lynch(after 3 seer scans too)

ITC and Marathoner never joined the mafia, so didn't know who the mafia were or such. That is the difference in why they didn't say mafia whatever when they died. I tried to make that be the clue for people to know when they killed someone in the family or not. Ie: Bsak said mafia drug dealer when he died since he had joined the mafia family. Hopefully that makes sense :)

[Narcizo]

So, I had the right guy for the wrong reasons, it seems. :D

I enjoyed the game a lot. I thought the conflict between personal victory conditions and team victory conditions made for interesting decisions. The UMB was fun but I was actually going to suggest that it was too powerful a tool for the good guys - as it basically gave PM privelages if you could work out who was good. (Like I did Anxiety - although I didn't actually feel any need to PM him).

I think I made a few newbie mistakes, basically talking too much, which could have got me in trouble. (I said that I'd blown my victory condition and then a couple of days later said that I'd made it - I was mistaken the first time, my report was just late, but I was sure Blade was going to use it to say that I'd been converted). I could probably have come out as the banker sooner but I didn't think it would gain much and I used the UMB to say pretty much all I had to say. I thought everyone had worked it out anyway.

And I ignored LSG going on about there being another detective. Correctly as it turns out but if I hadn't I might have come to the right conclusion for the wrong reasons.

I have to agree with Blade that the game seemed a bit skewed to evil. You can't account for lynching the two main mob members on day 2 and 3. If that hadn't happened surely it would have been a mob walkover? I guess good had bad luck with the detectives.

However having not voted a good guy all game long (Chief turned after I died I believe) I think I did pretty well.

[Narcizo]

So, I thought it was a great game. Loved the divergent victory conditions and the UMB. Maybe there was a few too many random events.

[Alan T]

I think in the end, I probably would agree that it probably was a little easier for the bad guys than I would have liked this game.. however I think a big part of that isn't the game design fault as much as the bad guys made good use of most of their tools. They used the UMB fully, they used items to about 75% of their effectiveness, the only tool they didn't really use was their cash in trying to bribe votes off of neutrals that were dependant on cash.

I think the good guys in some cases used the UMB ok, but in most cases didn't. Anxiety for instance who did reach his goal during the game was one of the better users of the UMB and it paid off for him. The Good guys really didn't use the items very well to their effectiveness, and I think they didn't get full use out of the judge/detective infrastructure which was a game breaker. Partially due to losing a detective day 1.

I think the things I would change as far as design goes would probably have been to cut back a little bit on a role or two that I thought was a bit too strong for the bad guys.. but I think most of the problems was that I obviously did not convey how important items were in this game. If the key roles had spent money on getting bulletproof vests, the bad guys could likely had been restricted to either 1 kill every 3 days or 2 every 3 days depending on who they converted over.

I guess I would have loved to have seen all of the detectives getting bulletproof vests, the banker getting one and a bigger push from people to try to get judges in. I think thats one thing I made a bit too hard was with so many neutral roles in with the bad guys, it was really tough to elect a judge at the beginning. I should have perhaps used a different method of getting a judge in I think, so there wern't so many days with -no- judge.

Thanks for the comments, and I'm interested in any others also. It helps me with future games. I hope everyone enjoyed it, I didn't necessarily enjoy it as much as my last one, but I think that is because of other reasons not related to WW right now.

I also hope Narcizo and Bsak keep playing as well as King continuing to come back and play again with us some more in the future. And I also hope those who get frustrated at other players in the game don't use it as a reason to not play anymore. Its easy to get riled up at each other in a game where you make direct accusations. I hope each game people can try to wipe the slate clean and start over again when possible.

[Alan T]

Oh, and if there is one thing that I really did like how it worked out this game and will most likely use again is the goal system I had here. When people met their personal goals it gave them rewards, new roles or special one time abilities. I think some of the people in this game had tougher goals to accomplish than others, and most of that is due to this game taking a much bigger turn than I expected at the start, and money was not used nearly as much as I had expected. I did like how it ended up working out though when people did meet goals or objectives.

[st.cronin]

I think the game was fairly well balanced, possibly tilted towards good. There were only two of us at the beginning (me and DT). We got lucky with Tyrith, and SnDvls played out of his mind in the last half of the game. Otherwise the game might have been over day 6.

On the other hand, if Barkeep doesn't wreck his car...

[Alan T]

Well the one thing i have found in games that are pretty wide open (with alot of roles) is that they very easily can go either way with excellent play by someone. In the Tombstone game, I felt the bad guys had no shot near the end, and Lathum played amazingly well and convinced enough people to go other ways long enough to survive till the end. Likewise in this game, Sndvls did really well at holding off enough suspicion long enough to survive.

On the other hand, Blade the first two days this game nearly ended the game day 2 if not for them getting Sndvls converted pretty quickly. I also think that Narcizo did a good job at slamming the door on the middle of the game with not only Barkeep, but also he (and others) putting the pressure on the other bad guys who just happened to not be mafia yet.

I guess I like having a game that rewards great play, I try to make a game more open for people to adlib more (both good guys and bad guys), but the big risk is having an unbalanced game. I definitly see things that I could have improved, and I thank everyone for their thoughts, most of which I either agree with or can see that perspective.

[Poli]

Dang, game over already!? I hope you run another game similar to this.

[Dr. Sak]

I don't know if you guys recall but I made up a story on Swaggs that said if the detective clears him he would then gain all of your trust and turn bad. Well that's exactly what I did. When Anxiety got hacked, I mentioned something about he should have bought firewall software. So that got everyone all fired up, and I got the good guys to get a warrant and search me.

While this was going on SnDvls and I were talking via the underground and we gained each other's trust. I was telling him everything that was going in and out of my shop. The first day I got to be the person that offed Swaggs. But I couldn't hang on much longer before getting lynched. So I outted SnDvls in my last post before getting lynched and knew everyone wouldn't believe me once they found out I was bad.

[Narcizo]

SnDvls played an excellent game it has to be said. He was under suspicion from day one (well, two then) but he kept on managing to slide away from it. His fake reveal was perfectly timed as well. I think the main problem good had was setting too much store in vouches based on partial scans. (Swaggs scan of SnDvls being the most obvious). Great as SnDvls played I think it was there for good to win at the end and I was part of that, getting tunnel vision about Chief Rum. I noticed I did the same thing while I was reading the Apocolypse game (I was convinced Prof X was bad) so when I play again I'll have to think about that more. By the end I didn't really think CR was bad but I had concentrated on him so much that I couldn't find anyone else to be suspicious of. As soon as I died it seemed to clear my head though and I saw it pretty quickly.

I have to admit I was surprised at the fact that people like JE and LSG didn't spend any money all game - I could see their finances. I mean not joining the USB was just baffling when you had 1000 in the bank. I started with a shedload of money but I thought it was there for spending, even if I didn't really have a clear idea what to do with it.

Alan I'm just wondering if the firewall software gave full protection. If it did then I wasted $150 and wasted 2 days of Anxiety's time. I was presuming that it only offered partial protection.

In retrospect I think the game probably was very well balanced. I think the good guys are probably under-estimating the amount of work the wolves put in to get the win, particularly after early set backs.

[Alan T]

SnDvls played an excellent game it has to be said. He was under suspicion from day one (well, two then) but he kept on managing to slide away from it. His fake reveal was perfectly timed as well. I think the main problem good had was setting too much store in vouches based on partial scans. (Swaggs scan of SnDvls being the most obvious). Great as SnDvls played I think it was there for good to win at the end and I was part of that, getting tunnel vision about Chief Rum. I noticed I did the same thing while I was reading the Apocolypse game (I was convinced Prof X was bad) so when I play again I'll have to think about that more. By the end I didn't really think CR was bad but I had concentrated on him so much that I couldn't find anyone else to be suspicious of. As soon as I died it seemed to clear my head though and I saw it pretty quickly.

I have to admit I was surprised at the fact that people like JE and LSG didn't spend any money all game - I could see their finances. I mean not joining the USB was just baffling when you had 1000 in the bank. I started with a shedload of money but I thought it was there for spending, even if I didn't really have a clear idea what to do with it.

Alan I'm just wondering if the firewall software gave full protection. If it did then I wasted $150 and wasted 2 days of Anxiety's time. I was presuming that it only offered partial protection.

In retrospect I think the game probably was very well balanced. I think the good guys are probably under-estimating the amount of work the wolves put in to get the win, particularly after early set backs.

The firewall software did offer full protection. There were a few places for both bad and good where people were offered multiple ways of accomplishing something, just some were far better choices than others.

[Swaggs]

I thought the game was pretty well balanced.

SnDvls played a great game, but we had a chance to win for the last several days, so the opportunity was there.

[path12]

In hindsight I don't think I used the bodyguard power as well as I might have. I used it the first day on JE, and then once Anxiety was voted judge I used it on him, but I was holding off on some other days because my victory condition was to protect a judge and since I could only protect someone once I was wary of not burning all our judge candidates. As it turned out we couldn't ever get a new judge elected so I should have used it on LSG that day -- I actually sent in the order but then recinded it after she indicated she had a gun and I thought she would be elected for sure that day.

[SnDvls]

This game was extremely fun. I am glad I played, Alant you have some of the best games.

I never saw where it was hinted that detectives not use the computers to do their daily activities. I thought it was the best way to track people but in the end it didn't help me convict anybody, just clear people.

Also, I never did get to send my gun to anybody. I was going to do it after I saw if Cheif was good or bad. And seeing how chief was good, i probably would have sent it back to sndvls... so we would have been screwed either way.

ya I always had a 2nd gun so I passed it to gain some trust

[SnDvls]

And if Blade had joined us in lynchign SnDvls, the game would have been ours. Ah well, at least I was the last good guy left in teh end,.

I had put in my kill order before he could vote thus eliminating him. It was either him or you and since you hadn't put in an "official vote" yet I took him out...lucky for me he had mentioned he was leaning towards path so that took some pressure off me too.

Alan how was the last tie breaker between path & I determined?

[SnDvls]

I think one of my biggest complaints with this game was seeing some mafia die and it not say mafia(ITC) while others did(barkeep). Linked to this, it would be nice in the future if the lynch post says who died...it got a little annoying having to keep going back to the main post.



problem was ITC was never mafia he was just a thug...we never talked to him or tried to recruit him

[SnDvls]

On the other hand, if Barkeep doesn't wreck his car...


you said this before...I'm confused did I miss something? Is BK okay?

[Alan T]

I had put in my kill order before he could vote thus eliminating him. It was either him or you and since you hadn't put in an "official vote" yet I took him out...lucky for me he had mentioned he was leaning towards path so that took some pressure off me too.

Alan how was the last tie breaker between path & I determined?


In any case where there was no head of the lynch mob (the last 5 people in the game, or he died), or when the head of the lynch mob voted for someone not involved in a tiebreaker, then it fell to a second tiebreaker of oldest held vote. If both of you were tied at 2, then the person who got and kept their 2nd vote first was lynched. Since Path got his second vote before you received your second vote (Anxiety's vote for you), Path was killed.

[Alan T]

you said this before...I'm confused did I miss something? Is BK okay?


The mafia was working with Barkeep through the UMB the night when he was the deciding vote to lynch one of the mafia members. They kept trying to get him to move his vote but he never did (because he wasn't on the board since he had wrecked his car)

[SnDvls]

I thought the game was pretty well balanced.

SnDvls played a great game, but we had a chance to win for the last several days, so the opportunity was there.

Swaggs you were my key to victory in this game....after you scanned my trash I knew I had to kill you as I wasn't sure what you really knew and tried to play up that fact in my post where you talk about what to say about me. This was my one opening to keep it going and so I thought up my reporter role and ran with it....do or die so to speak. Then I got a few more days when LSG semi-cleared me too...I had no info in the police system because I didn't commit a crime where prints would be found...this bought me a few more days...finally Nazcio almost cost me the game when he said I never put money in the bank..I thought I was gone then.

[SnDvls]

BTW - Jonathan I saw you mention this was your last WW game...I hope that isn't the case

[Barkeep49]

The mafia was working with Barkeep through the UMB the night when he was the deciding vote to lynch one of the mafia members. They kept trying to get him to move his vote but he never did (because he wasn't on the board since he had wrecked his car)
And I further could have protected cronin from the following day's vote as well. Though if I hadn't blown it with the money thing I'd likely have been able to ride that action a long way as I don't think with just Anxiety coming out against me as the hacker that there'd have been enough support to lynch me.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

BTW - Jonathan I saw you mention this was your last WW game...I hope that isn't the case

As long as my work schedule stays as it is, this will be my last game. I hated not being able to get into any discussions and having to put my vote in before most people had even checked in for the day. And I really hated that most of my votes were pure guesses (since I wouldn't be around to see how things developed throughout the day). A case in point is yesterday. When I got home from work and read through the thread, if I'd been around I would have pulled my vote from path.

I'll keep following the games and wishing I could get in them, but for now this is it.

[Chief Rum]

I thought this was a terrific game. I think I made two key errors, one major and one minor. More on that in a second.

Alan, did you have any idea I would take the sports bettor role the way I did? Did you see there was a way for me to actually run a business with it or did I surprise you with that? I was wondering all along if you intended me to do that.

The betting was a neat side thing for this game, but unfortunately, hardly anyone took advantage of it. Lathum lost $100 on the first day, and I returned a $20 st. cronin bet to him when he wanted to go against the bettors bet (and he would have won; Lathum and I lost). kingfc was the big winner. He went in with me with $400 on the Blazers in the third game. LSG was the final bettors. We lost when the Lakers lost a few days ago. I bet every day I was alive. I had a victory goal of $10,000 and I started with $500. Losing the KState game hurt, because I lost most of my start up money. I turned $100 into almost $2500, though with the five straight wins, so I thought I could still make a victory condition if I lived a couple more days. And then that Lakers double OT loss. Stupid Lakers.

I was then converted to good (BTW, Narcizo, I was good the day you died, so you did vote for a good guy), so I only had to make $3000 (but help good win). I won a blind five-to-one bet to get a lot of my Lakers losses back, but I died the next day, so I didn't get to my goal (either one actually).

I am surprised more people didn't bet. I think they were being overly cautious with their money. It's there to be spent.

Now to my mistakes. It boils down to the same thing. Emotion. I let my emotions color my normally rational outlook. My minor mistake involved sndvls. I should have questioned his role, which wasn't in the list. The bsak attack on himw as key to that, so good move there by bsak. I was fooled. The main thing, though, was near the end sndvls coming out so strongly for me. That should have raised red flags with me. I mean, everyone and their mother suspected me; why would me sending him a gun convince him of my honesty? But I was just so glad to see someone, anyone, actually believe me after all the bickering with Blade that I bought into it.

My major mistake goes to Blade, and I think we're both equally responsible for that. I think we were the focus of the game for much of the middle to end stretch. We were so polarizing among the remaining players, that they couldn't focus on anything except our back-and-forth and trying to prove the other was evil. Blade frustrated me in this game because I kept presenting some logical conclusions on why I wasn't evil, but he was absolutely convinced I was. I was torn on being open, but not too open, because I thought the mafia would come after me if they knew I had the gun that would used to kill hoopsguy and/or Tyrith. So Blade was also asking about things I couldn't risk revealing, and that made me seem more cagey. His focus on me only turned me to focusing on him, and so emotion again clouded my judgment. Obviously, it would have been quite a turn for Blade to have been evil after all. But he was so gung ho on me when I wasn't evil at all, it made me think he was going after me so strong to hide the fact he was evil or divert attention from other mafia. Reality was, it was good versus quasi-good, and we gave Sndvls the under-the-radar corridor that he needed.

BTW, Alan, where did the gun and gem come from? Who dropped them? Was the gun used in crimes, such as hoopsguy's or Tyriths murders?

I, too, would hope this isn't Jon Ezarik's last WW game. I don't know if it is something personal, but I hope he would look past that. He's a good player, and I enjoy playing with him.

[Chief Rum]

As long as my work schedule stays as it is, this will be my last game. I hated not being able to get into any discussions and having to put my vote in before most people had even checked in for the day. And I really hated that most of my votes were pure guesses (since I wouldn't be around to see how things developed throughout the day). A case in point is yesterday. When I got home from work and read through the thread, if I'd been around I would have pulled my vote from path.

I'll keep following the games and wishing I could get in them, but for now this is it.

Oh, I hear ya there. Obviously, my schedule is similar to yours. I do still make it work, though, and have fun with it. Early on it will suck mor ebecasue you have absolutely nothing to go on for votes. But after that, if you're following along on the thread and people know that you leave early, you can still be an active particpant in your time. I find that coming home from work and reading all the stuff that went down after my vote is a ton of fun.

[Chief Rum]

Oh, yeah, and thanks Alan for another terrific game. I thought you did very well, especially given the circumstances, and this was a pretty balanced game. It reminds me a little of my JTR game, in which I thought most of my design decisions were fairly well balanced, but bad luck (Lathum buying it really early) unbalanced it badly (and then my bad design decisions came far more into play).

Don't worry about the missed UMB post, either. So everyone knows, what Alan was talking about was a UMB post I tried to send out which revealed I had the gun and the gem, and laid out the story Blade and others were asking for publically that I felt I couldn't do. It was a last ditch effort to get the story out there before I died. As it turned out, I lived for another couple days and the story pretty much all get out anyway.

I was really torn about going good or bad when I was offered the chance by Sndvls (unbeknownst to me). That's why I didn't make my decision right away. I actually slept on it, that's how close it was. I ended up going good because I had acted good most of the game, and, simply, because I felt I was about to die that day (didn't know I was protected yet) and didn't want to come up evil, thus giving Blade any validation with his accusations. So I really wanted to turn mafia and decided to go good instead. How about that, SnDvls? :)

[Alan T]

Chief, your role and King's roles were both setup in a way where it wouldn't be impossible to win, but you would need alot of help. I wasn't suprised in how you took it, but in my mind I had thought both of you would have ended up in a situation where you felt desperate enough for money that you could be "bought". Scenerios like this is what the UMB was mainly in play for.. I was hoping you would let yourself be "prostituted out" so to speak to get some extra cash.

The early games for you purposely were going to be harder than the later games as the desire wasn't to keep you from making your mark but moreso to push you and King both to different ways to reach it and thus being more involved in the WW game than just a side parlor game.

The gun and gem (as well as other items, like King found a bulletproof vest, and others found cash) were just a random way to insert more items into the game as we went. You found a brand new item, was not used in any murders or anything. If they had checked your gun into the police evidence, it would have shown clean for ballistics matches.

[st.cronin]

I hope JE finds the time to play again, as well.

[st.cronin]

And I further could have protected cronin from the following day's vote as well. Though if I hadn't blown it with the money thing I'd likely have been able to ride that action a long way as I don't think with just Anxiety coming out against me as the hacker that there'd have been enough support to lynch me.


That would have been just a phenomenal sequence of events - the random bandwagon started by hoops getting blade lynched, then actually being immune the next day. The mayhem that would have been resulted would have been priceless. Alas.

[SnDvls]

I was really torn about going good or bad when I was offered the chance by Sndvls (unbeknownst to me). That's why I didn't make my decision right away. I actually slept on it, that's how close it was. I ended up going good because I had acted good most of the game, and, simply, because I felt I was about to die that day (didn't know I was protected yet) and didn't want to come up evil, thus giving Blade any validation with his accusations. So I really wanted to turn mafia and decided to go good instead. How about that, SnDvls? :)

the gun was DT's and used to kill Hoops..no idea on the gem
I did have the ring that Blade wanted thought DT gave it to me.

I protected both you and Blade in hopes of converting either of you and had even told alan if either of you called it was an invite into the family...neither of you took me up on it and yes I got the same PM you both got about what happened....thanks for the hot dog ;)

I don't know how many times I typed a post in here then deleated it only to see someone save my butt with some screwed up story on someone else...being down 8-1 sucked and I got a lot of lucky breaks by the good guys and was as Blade put it "tomorrows lynch" almost every day.

[SnDvls]

ahh guess the gun was clean...I had assumed all along it was DT's old gun

[Alan T]

Nope, items went to the grave with people. I didn't want things coming back after their death to condemn others.

[Swaggs]

Alan, what determined the contents of the trash?

For the most part, they all made sense, but SnDvls' items really never clicked with me. I thought the napkin indicated that he was a man of wealth and that the baby's toy (I can't remember exactly what it was, a toy or rattle or pacifier) indicated that he was a family man and therefore, likely good.

[Blade6119]

Question for alan...if LSG bought the bullet proof vest from me that day, how did she die? She was shot, but she had just bought a bullet proof vest from me.

[Alan T]

Alan, what determined the contents of the trash?

For the most part, they all made sense, but SnDvls' items really never clicked with me. I thought the napkin indicated that he was a man of wealth and that the baby's toy (I can't remember exactly what it was, a toy or rattle or pacifier) indicated that he was a family man and therefore, likely good.

Was more a play on words than anything. Rattle = KID, NAPkin

Most of your clues were not meant for you to be able to just come right out and say , oh he is a <fill in the blank>.. so you got stuff like a Kiss begins with K, or Eric Estrada.

[Alan T]

Alan, what determined the contents of the trash?

For the most part, they all made sense, but SnDvls' items really never clicked with me. I thought the napkin indicated that he was a man of wealth and that the baby's toy (I can't remember exactly what it was, a toy or rattle or pacifier) indicated that he was a family man and therefore, likely good.

Question for alan...if LSG bought the bullet proof vest from me that day, how did she die? She was shot, but she had just bought a bullet proof vest from me.

In the rules, items passed around didn't have as much effectiveness the day they were passed. It was to prevent a group of 4 people from getting one pair of Fingerprintless gloves, or such. While the bad guys did pass around all kinds of items, and LSG got the item from you as well, if you have something invoke the item the day you received it, there was a 50% chance of failing. So for the record, this game every time that came up, the people involved failed their roll. I didn't once come out and directly say that to anyone, I wanted to leave it just at the hint earlier on in the game that sharing items might not be fully effective.