Werewolf 40,000: The Horus Heresy CHAOS DEFEATED; MUTANTS SURVIVE

[st.cronin]

By the way, when they kill me and I turn up like I have said the entire game. Go after Fouts and St.cronin. I think they are the ones pulling the strings. I'll check back in after 9 to see if I even need to bother scanning someone or not.

Last night was the first night I was not locked up. The idea that I am pulling strings is utter nonsense.

[st.cronin]

I've been right about so many things in this game (like who would die last night), and I feel like I'm probably right about this, but I also suspect I'll be the only one voting for Chief Rum today.

[Alan T]

For what it is worth, I am pretty convinced that Grey was good when he visited me on night 2. From the description of the encounter, I assumed that he would have killed me had I been Chaos, but I suppose a conversion could be possible.

Alan, do you have any more detail on your attack?

Mustang, do you have anything to say?

I can't quote my PM. I'll give general timelines though if you are wanting to compare it to when you were attacked:

Ready to go visit Fouts
As leaving my room a hooded figure jumps through the door and sticks a knife into my shoulder
We tumble to the floor, I violently kick and toss until one of my kicks hits a weak spot on my opponent
It hurt him enough for him to cry out, he grabbed his knife and took off.
I stood up to go chase him, but the blood gushing from my shoulder is too rapid and I collapse and lose consciousness.

In the morning i wake up groggily and still in pain. The trauma of the night before left me with no recollection of my attacker.

Thats all I can say probably without violating PM copying rules.

[Alan T]

Last night was the first night I was not locked up. The idea that I am pulling strings is utter nonsense.

You sure do seem to be tryin to get people to lynch known good guys locked up or not.

[saldana]

I've been right about so many things in this game (like who would die last night), and I feel like I'm probably right about this, but I also suspect I'll be the only one voting for Chief Rum today.

oh come on now....taking credit for predicting twothree would get killed last night is more ridiculous than taking credit for a day one vote on anxiety....every single person in the game, including twothree, knew he was gonna get killed last nigt.

[st.cronin]

oh come on now....taking credit for predicting twothree would get killed last night is more ridiculous than taking credit for a day one vote on anxiety....every single person in the game, including twothree, knew he was gonna get killed last nigt.

More than one player was spinning scenarios where twothree was either bad or was going to be set up to look bad (by me, somehow). Your quote here is pure hyperbole.

You sure do seem to be tryin to get people to lynch known good guys locked up or not.

Chief Rum is known to be good by who? Not by me. What other known good players have I pushed to get lynched? ZERO.

[BrianD]

I can't quote my PM. I'll give general timelines though if you are wanting to compare it to when you were attacked:

Ready to go visit Fouts
As leaving my room a hooded figure jumps through the door and sticks a knife into my shoulder
We tumble to the floor, I violently kick and toss until one of my kicks hits a weak spot on my opponent
It hurt him enough for him to cry out, he grabbed his knife and took off.
I stood up to go chase him, but the blood gushing from my shoulder is too rapid and I collapse and lose consciousness.

In the morning i wake up groggily and still in pain. The trauma of the night before left me with no recollection of my attacker.

Thats all I can say probably without violating PM copying rules.

A weak spot on your oppenent? Did we have anyone else get stabbed but not killed? Could this weak spot person be a mutant with some odd deformity somewhere? Would it make sense to have a mutant assassin?

[Greyroofoo]

I doubt there are three bad guys working together. It's possible grey and Alan are working together - the story doesn't make any sense no matter how you put it together. I think this is probably like the Blade situation earlier where nobody understands what actually happened. I'll keep my vote on Chief Rum.

Note - grey never said Mustang was Chaos. He said whatever he was before, now he's good. I think Mustang is definitely good now, and probably always has been.

right my pm never said chaos anywhere in it.

My understand of last night is the Mustang went out to kill Alan T, somehow failed.

I found him AWAKE and shivering in his room. So I have every reason to believe he was out of his room.

It is possible Mustang is an assassin like bulletsponge was if he was always good.

However you want to look at it though. Mustang is now loyal to the Emperor.

[saldana]

right my pm never said chaos anywhere in it.

My understand of last night is the Mustang went out to kill Alan T, somehow failed.

I found him AWAKE and shivering in his room. So I have every reason to believe he was out of his room.

It is possible Mustang is an assassin like bulletsponge was if he was always good.

However you want to look at it though. Mustang is now loyal to the Emperor.


so he was a mutant assassin, and has now seen the error of his ways...so you are saying you "unconverted" him?!...this should make for an intersting story when mustang shows up

[Fouts]

I think I will vote for either alan, saldana or grey. I need more info from guys on my trust list though.

I'd like to hear from swaggs, GE and CR. Mustang's version of things would help.

[st.cronin]

I bet Mustang tells the most confusing story possible. I'm staying away from all 4 of those guys with my vote, especially Mustang.

[Fouts]

I bet Mustang tells the most confusing story possible. I'm staying away from all 4 of those guys with my vote, especially Mustang.

Do you think the chaos and mutants are hiding behind alan and saldana's crazy stories? I can't believe we have all these seers working for us. Just no way.

[st.cronin]

Do you think the chaos and mutants are hiding behind alan and saldana's crazy stories? I can't believe we have all these seers working for us. Just no way.

Somewhat agree, but I also don't think we have more than 2 chaos left. Try to construct a version of events with only two of those guys working together, and I'll buy it. I don't see it. I think one of them is possibly a mutant, or one of them is a "deluded seer" - getting bad readings. Which might help explain the Blade lynch.

Every game, though, it seems like the bad guys are the ones who hardly post anything at all. Look at Anxiety in this game.

[Fouts]

Trying to scare me isn't going to stop me from trying to track down who the last wolves are. We're down to only 4-5 people the last 1-2 chaos people can be (excepting for possible conversions).

I honestly think our harder problem is going to be trying to find where the mutants are hiding before we eliminate the chaos.

Speaking just scientifically, the highest likelihood is the remaining chaos are one of the following:

Fouts
St.Cronin
Twothree
Mustang
Chiefrum
Swaggs
Kingfc22

And unless night death(s) hinder us, we'll know more about 2 of those 7 whether we can remove them or not after night actions.

Prophetic post. Hmmm, it seems we were hindered. Alan is unable to visit me, grey visited the same exact guy that attacked alan (says saldana). I am just amazed that all these things happened to coincide.

[BrianD]

So where are we looking tonight?

[Swaggs]

Just checking in. Lemme get caught up.

[Fouts]

So where are we looking tonight?

I think we need to lynch the person most likely to be bad, and is connected to both groups. That way, if we are wrong, we can find alot of information out.

[Swaggs]

Wow. Lots of stuff going on.

I am considering doing a role reveal here. Where are we on the vote?

[BrianD]

I think we've got one vote for Chief Rum, and everyone else is confused. Sound about right?

[Fouts]

I have been thinking it over. One guy has been suspicious to me the whole way. He pushed to kill a guy who couldn't be killed at night. He pushed to kill the bodyguard with incorrect information. He avoided telling his story so he wouldn't be lynched. He told a story about seeing an attack (which is verified by both seer types). I just don't like his story, it doesn't add up.


vote saldana

[Swaggs]

Alright... my question now is do we think Mustang could be a mutant?

Alan was attacked by someone, saldana "saw" it happen, and mutants are loyal to the emperor.

[BrianD]

Alright... my question now is do we think Mustang could be a mutant?

Alan was attacked by someone, saldana "saw" it happen, and mutants are loyal to the emperor.

Maybe? It sounds from Grey like Mustang wasn't loyal to the emperor, but now is. If mutants are loyal to the emperor, why wasn't Mustang loyal before?

[Fouts]

Alright... my question now is do we think Mustang could be a mutant?

Alan was attacked by someone, saldana "saw" it happen, and mutants are loyal to the emperor.

It is possible. Why would mustang attack alan?

[Fouts]

Here's the kicker. If the chaos killed twothree, and mutants are already loyal to the emperor (per alan's view of path), how can grey have converted mustang back to being loyal to the emperor?

[Swaggs]

Maybe? It sounds from Grey like Mustang wasn't loyal to the emperor, but now is. If mutants are loyal to the emperor, why wasn't Mustang loyal before?


No idea. I just thought that someone, earlier in the game, established that mutants were loyal to the emperor and that they just want equal rights or something (Did I imagine all of that? :) ).

Maybe he wasn't a mutant, but I guess the knife thing makes it sound like he isn't/wasn't chaos, since they are supposed to be like monsters. Having a knife makes it sound more like he is an assassin or something along those lines. I guess the knife could be related to his position, though.

I'm not sure where to go with this really--was thinking outloud. The fact that saldana did not vote for him, after indentifying him, should probably make me feel less suspicious about Mustang.

[Chief Rum]

Chief Rum is known to be good by who? Not by me. What other known good players have I pushed to get lynched? ZERO.

So you admit I am good then? ;)

Back to being serious here, I don't really know who to vote for. Right now, I believe Alan, and that's about it.

According to Alan, saldana and GE are loyal to the emperor. That means they aren't Chaos and clears them for me. But that doesn't mean their visions are real. I like the theory that someone is getting bad readings, and my guess is saldana. We already have evidence of the incomplete information he gets from the Blade situation. But would he be shown out and out false info?

Alan was attacked, that is clear. saldana says it is Mustang, because he saw it. IMO, I don't think there is any doubt that Mustang attacked Alan, because I don't believe saldana is getting false visions.

That brings us to grey's visit with Mustang. Several facts point to grey being good. Blade was good, and if grey were a Chaos, he would not have gotten past Blade's bodyguards to GE. GE was confirmed good by AlanT (or possibly converted by grey to good that night, with Blade unwittingly protecting a wolf--regardless he seems good now). grey vouched for bullet and even led an effort to save him--and bullet ended up good.

All this leads me to believe grey is good, too, and telling the truth. So Mustang is now good. He should still be punished for his attacks, but twothree's death and the fact the game is still going tells us there is still at least one more Chaos out there.

Because of all of the above, I cannot in good conscience vote for AlanT, saldana, grey or Mustang.

So that leaves me with my original suspects, st. cronin and Fouts.

st. cronin continues to try to play me up as a suspect, but the fact is, he has made far more shady plays in this game then I have. The only thing I have done that looks weird was the voting situation on Day Three, and that was to save a good villager. And he continues to make wolfish plays, like trying to play up his role as critical to survival of the game, boldly challenging seers to scan him, primping himself up for voting for Anxiety on Day 1, as if he knew that early.

He continues to be the most suspicious to me. So...

VOTE ST. CRONIN

May your soul feed the Emperor for eternity.

[Alan T]

No idea. I just thought that someone, earlier in the game, established that mutants were loyal to the emperor and that they just want equal rights or something (Did I imagine all of that? :) ).

Maybe he wasn't a mutant, but I guess the knife thing makes it sound like he isn't/wasn't chaos, since they are supposed to be like monsters. Having a knife makes it sound more like he is an assassin or something along those lines. I guess the knife could be related to his position, though.

I'm not sure where to go with this really--was thinking outloud. The fact that saldana did not vote for him, after indentifying him, should probably make me feel less suspicious about Mustang.

Im pretty sure Saldana did vote for him. I don't think it will matter if you do a role reveal or not, people all know everything and refuse to listen to role reveals. All it will do is likely put you under fire instead.

[BrianD]

Here's the kicker. If the chaos killed twothree, and mutants are already loyal to the emperor (per alan's view of path), how can grey have converted mustang back to being loyal to the emperor?

He was somehow able to remove the Chaos taint? Do the Chaos have a taint, or are they completely non-human? The night is pretty long, seems reasonable that multiple events could happen.

I really don't get why Mustang would attack Alan though. I suppose if Mustang is a Chaos assassin, he could think Alan is a mutant and tried to kill him since we'd probably assume Saldana is a muntant and kill him too. If Mustang is a mutant assassin, he probably thought Alan was Chaos. Or maybe Mustang's role is to perform failed assassination attempts to keep us running in circles.

[Chief Rum]

Or maybe Mustang's role is to perform failed assassination attempts to keep us running in circles.

lol...now that would be a crappy role to play out.

[Fouts]

He was somehow able to remove the Chaos taint? Do the Chaos have a taint, or are they completely non-human? The night is pretty long, seems reasonable that multiple events could happen.

I really don't get why Mustang would attack Alan though. I suppose if Mustang is a Chaos assassin, he could think Alan is a mutant and tried to kill him since we'd probably assume Saldana is a muntant and kill him too. If Mustang is a mutant assassin, he probably thought Alan was Chaos. Or maybe Mustang's role is to perform failed assassination attempts to keep us running in circles.

So you are thinking that the chaos can do multiple kill actions per night? I don't buy it.

[Greyroofoo]

If Mustang was chaos (and right now I tend to believe he was), assassinating Alan T makes perfect sense since Alan can detect chaos. The other chaos then proceeded to kill twothree. Then we have two of three seers eliminated.

[Fouts]

So you admit I am good then? ;)

Back to being serious here, I don't really know who to vote for. Right now, I believe Alan, and that's about it.

According to Alan, saldana and GE are loyal to the emperor. That means they aren't Chaos and clears them for me. But that doesn't mean their visions are real. I like the theory that someone is getting bad readings, and my guess is saldana. We already have evidence of the incomplete information he gets from the Blade situation. But would he be shown out and out false info?

Alan was attacked, that is clear. saldana says it is Mustang, because he saw it. IMO, I don't think there is any doubt that Mustang attacked Alan, because I don't believe saldana is getting false visions.

That brings us to grey's visit with Mustang. Several facts point to grey being good. Blade was good, and if grey were a Chaos, he would not have gotten past Blade's bodyguards to GE. GE was confirmed good by AlanT (or possibly converted by grey to good that night, with Blade unwittingly protecting a wolf--regardless he seems good now). grey vouched for bullet and even led an effort to save him--and bullet ended up good.

All this leads me to believe grey is good, too, and telling the truth. So Mustang is now good. He should still be punished for his attacks, but twothree's death and the fact the game is still going tells us there is still at least one more Chaos out there.

Because of all of the above, I cannot in good conscience vote for AlanT, saldana, grey or Mustang.

So that leaves me with my original suspects, st. cronin and Fouts.

st. cronin continues to try to play me up as a suspect, but the fact is, he has made far more shady plays in this game then I have. The only thing I have done that looks weird was the voting situation on Day Three, and that was to save a good villager. And he continues to make wolfish plays, like trying to play up his role as critical to survival of the game, boldly challenging seers to scan him, primping himself up for voting for Anxiety on Day 1, as if he knew that early.

He continues to be the most suspicious to me. So...

VOTE ST. CRONIN

May your soul feed the Emperor for eternity.

What you are saying here is that you think everyone involved in last night's action to be good. And you suspect two people who have been involved in nothing at night. I sincerely hope I am a wolf in the next game. I can make up anything and you will believe it all.

[Chief Rum]

No idea. I just thought that someone, earlier in the game, established that mutants were loyal to the emperor and that they just want equal rights or something (Did I imagine all of that? :) ).

I think it's in the game description that way, and path turned out to be a mutant after being scanned as loyal to the emperor by AlanT, so I think mutants are on the side of good for the most part. They want to kill Chaos as much as we do. But we want to kill Chaos AND find the mutants at the same time for the ultimate victory.

Point being, for the most part, mutants will likely appear to be good to us.

[Greyroofoo]

So you are thinking that the chaos can do multiple kill actions per night? I don't buy it.

why can't a chaos person have an assassination role?

[Alan T]

So you are thinking that the chaos can do multiple kill actions per night? I don't buy it.

So now you are calling BrianD a liar too?

[Alan T]

I think it's in the game description that way, and path turned out to be a mutant after being scanned as loyal to the emperor by AlanT, so I think mutants are on the side of good for the most part. They want to kill Chaos as much as we do. But we want to kill Chaos AND find the mutants at the same time for the ultimate victory.

Point being, for the most part, mutants will likely appear to be good to us.

Mutants want to kill chaos more than we do even. They win the instant all chaos are eliminated

[Swaggs]

why can't a chaos person have an assassination role?

Why wait until Night 4 to use it, though?

[Fouts]

why can't a chaos person have an assassination role?

Where he can attempt more than one kill per game? I can't buy that.

[Chief Rum]

What you are saying here is that you think everyone involved in last night's action to be good. And you suspect two people who have been involved in nothing at night. I sincerely hope I am a wolf in the next game. I can make up anything and you will believe it all.

No, what I am saying is that there is a logical case to establish some level of goodness (or goodness "now") in all of those players. I have even laid that case out, with the logical conclusions, based on what facts we have. There may be mutants in that group, but I don't think they are Chaos (or aren't anymore).

I do not want to waste my vote on killing good villagers, so I am going after the ones I suspect of being wolves. And why the attack on me, Fouts, when St. Cronin essentially did the same thing before voting for me? I also have not done anything at night, nor was I at all involved in last night's actions, and yet you question what I have fully laid out, and you don't even bother to look closely at st. cronin who has spent a lot of time trumpeting my name, but has laid out very little evidence for why I should be a wolf?

I guess if I will believe anything you say the next game, I can also count on you establishing your own beliefs very early on, and never again questioning them, stubbornly following them to the doom of us all, regardless of what evidence comes up.

[Fouts]

So now you are calling BrianD a liar too?

Nice one. Keep stirring the pot. I asked him if he was thinking that way, and I don't think it is probable. I am not calling him a liar, because he never said that was the way it is.

[Chief Rum]

Mutants want to kill chaos more than we do even. They win the instant all chaos are eliminated

Yup, you're right on there.

[Fouts]

No, what I am saying is that there is a logical case to establish some level of goodness (or goodness "now") in all of those players. I have even laid that case out, with the logical conclusions, based on what facts we have. There may be mutants in that group, but I don't think they are Chaos (or aren't anymore).

I do not want to waste my vote on killing good villagers, so I am going after the ones I suspect of being wolves. And why the attack on me, Fouts, when St. Cronin essentially did the same thing before voting for me? I also have not done anything at night, nor was I at all involved in last night's actions, and yet you question what I have fully laid out, and you don't even bother to look closely at st. cronin who has spent a lot of time trumpeting my name, but has laid out very little evidence for why I should be a wolf?

I guess if I will believe anything you say the next game, I can also count on you establishing your own beliefs very early on, and never again questioning them, stubbornly following them to the doom of us all, regardless of what evidence comes up.

Why ignore this evidence? - Saldana pushed for realdeals death, and blades death.

However, you are willing to pin bullets death on me.

[Alan T]

Nice one. Keep stirring the pot. I asked him if he was thinking that way, and I don't think it is probable. I am not calling him a liar, because he never said that was the way it is.

Maybe I misread it then. Im pretty sure he was attacked one night when another killing occurred. And honestly why do I care what you think about me anymore. Just do me a favor and duke me.

[saldana]

No idea. I just thought that someone, earlier in the game, established that mutants were loyal to the emperor and that they just want equal rights or something (Did I imagine all of that? :) ).

Maybe he wasn't a mutant, but I guess the knife thing makes it sound like he isn't/wasn't chaos, since they are supposed to be like monsters. Having a knife makes it sound more like he is an assassin or something along those lines. I guess the knife could be related to his position, though.

I'm not sure where to go with this really--was thinking outloud. The fact that saldana did not vote for him, after indentifying him, should probably make me feel less suspicious about Mustang.

i voted for him in my first post of the day, before i revealed.

[Fouts]

Oh and I don't suspect st. cronin because he hasn't been involved in any of the shady things happening. I don't trust people moving around at night.

[Chief Rum]

Why ignore this evidence? - Saldana pushed for realdeals death, and blades death.

However, you are willing to pin bullets death on me.

He pushed for realdeal on Day 1. You knwo the value of Day 1 votes, and realdeal made an odd move, too. I'm not going to hang a guy because he made a bad call there.

And he explained the issue with Blade. Also an understandable error, and part of what we has to take into consideration with saldana's visions (not all info may have been presented to him).

On top of that, AlanT, who has come out good in this game and was apparently attacked by Chaos, has confirmed saldana's loyalty to the emperor.

I'm not going to hang a guy for a couple bad judgment calls.

It's not a matter of "willing" with bullet. You did kill him. And then you said you didn't regret it, even after he came out as good. Don't try and make it out like it's a matter of "public opinion". You as much slammed bullet's head down on the block and gave the executioner his order.

[saldana]

Oh and I don't suspect st. cronin because he hasn't been involved in any of the shady things happening. I don't trust people moving around at night.

i am more confident than ever that you are a chaos...at this point, i am asking you to kill me so everyone can see i am a good guy, then mustang followed by you will be the lynches the next two nights....but i am willing to wager you dont have the stones to duke me, becasue you know it will play out exactly as i said

[Swaggs]

i voted for him in my first post of the day, before i revealed.

What do you think after hearing that Grey said he was now loyal to the emperor? Are you holding your vote on him?

To me, if they choices are between you, Chief Rum, st. cronin, and Mustang, I think the information you provided, and the fact that Alan cleared you earlier, makes me lean towards voting for Mustang.

[Alan T]

i am more confident than ever that you are a chaos...at this point, i am asking you to kill me so everyone can see i am a good guy, then mustang followed by you will be the lynches the next two nights....but i am willing to wager you dont have the stones to duke me, becasue you know it will play out exactly as i said

I honestly bet he's just bluffing about having a duke power. I think all he has is a tiebreaker and we have seen plenty of games with bad guy tiebreakers before. (I was one in one game). He's full of BS.

[Fouts]

i am more confident than ever that you are a chaos...at this point, i am asking you to kill me so everyone can see i am a good guy, then mustang followed by you will be the lynches the next two nights....but i am willing to wager you dont have the stones to duke me, becasue you know it will play out exactly as i said

LOL. You think I am the chaos duke? Wow, then I am one great player to be accusing everyone and their brother and still not be lynched. If you really wanted to, you could get all your brothers in arms to vote for me and the people here will lynch me.

[Greyroofoo]

call me a werewolf newbie, but what exactly is duke powers?

[Alan T]

LOL. You think I am the chaos duke? Wow, then I am one great player to be accusing everyone and their brother and still not be lynched. If you really wanted to, you could get all your brothers in arms to vote for me and the people here will lynch me.

As annoying as you and St.cronin have been this past day or two in totally hindering us from trying to systematically route out chaos, I think the best play is to probably vote Mustang despite what Grey said.

[Fouts]

call me a werewolf newbie, but what exactly is duke powers?

The duke can change the target once per game at lynch time. Very powerful ability, and very powerful bargaining chip.

[Alan T]

call me a werewolf newbie, but what exactly is duke powers?

Duke powers allows you usually to one time change the vote to kill someone else at your choosing.

[Greyroofoo]

i just hope mustang will post sometime, if he was chaos, he should be able to tell us who the other chaos are right?

[Fouts]

Unlike the chaos assassin, who can attack at will, never be successful, and wait until mid-game to start attacking.

[Fouts]

i just hope mustang will post sometime, if he was chaos, he should be able to tell us who the other chaos are right?

Wow, nice setup. I look forward to this information.

[saldana]

What do you think after hearing that Grey said he was now loyal to the emperor? Are you holding your vote on him?

To me, if they choices are between you, Chief Rum, st. cronin, and Mustang, I think the information you provided, and the fact that Alan cleared you earlier, makes me lean towards voting for Mustang.

i dont know what to think of grey's story...but having not heard a thing from mustang about what he was doing, and the fact that he was in 2 of my visions, and both nights, there were attacks, makes me not buy the "unconverted" story.

[Alan T]

i dont know what to think of grey's story...but having not heard a thing from mustang about what he was doing, and the fact that he was in 2 of my visions, and both nights, there were attacks, makes me not buy the "unconverted" story.

Eh, to be fair, Mustang hasnt been on I dont think since night actions were done. He likely doesn't even know he was outed.

[Greyroofoo]

all I know is that right now I will stick my neck out for Mustang

[Alan T]

all I know is that right now I will stick my neck out for Mustang

You sure made it sound like you wernt sure if he was converted or not.

[saldana]

LOL. You think I am the chaos duke? Wow, then I am one great player to be accusing everyone and their brother and still not be lynched. If you really wanted to, you could get all your brothers in arms to vote for me and the people here will lynch me.

well if you are really the duke, and you are so sure i am a bad guy, whip that shit out and duke me already.

i double dog dare ya!

[Fouts]

well if you are really the duke, and you are so sure i am a bad guy, whip that shit out and duke me already.

i double dog dare ya!

Gather up your homeboys and start voting for me.

[Swaggs]

all I know is that right now I will stick my neck out for Mustang

Do you think he could be a mutant assassin or do you feel like he was a chaos and converted to "loyal to the emperor" last night?

[Greyroofoo]

I know that Mustang is good NOW.

While I am 80% sure I converted him, there's a chance he wasn't chaos before I visited him, which would lead me to believe he's a mutant assassin.

[BrianD]

So you are thinking that the chaos can do multiple kill actions per night? I don't buy it.

It sounds wrong to me too, but I'm not sure how else to explain it...unless he is a mutant assassin. I'm not sure that makes any more sense, but I've given up thinking I know what does make sense.

[saldana]

all I know is that right now I will stick my neck out for Mustang

the thing that has me worried about this is that i have never ever ever seen a reverse conversion...in all the ww games i have played, i have never seen someone that is totally a bad guy suddenly become a good guy...i know there have been doctors that have saved people in 2 stage conversions, where the conversion hasnt been instant, but i believe mustang killed fozzie and know he tried to kill alan, so that is not a two day conversion, thats a bad guy from the beginning

[Alan T]

I know that Mustang is good NOW.

While I am 80% sure I converted him, there's a chance he wasn't chaos before I visited him, which would lead me to believe he's a mutant assassin.

I also dont understand how you have the exact same role as me. Down to the possible ability to convert and everything.

[Fouts]

I know that Mustang is good NOW.

While I am 80% sure I converted him, there's a chance he wasn't chaos before I visited him, which would lead me to believe he's a mutant assassin.

Alan said path was loyal to the emperor, yet path was a mutant. How do you explain this?

[Alan T]

the thing that has me worried about this is that i have never ever ever seen a reverse conversion...in all the ww games i have played, i have never seen someone that is totally a bad guy suddenly become a good guy...i know there have been doctors that have saved people in 2 stage conversions, where the conversion hasnt been instant, but i believe mustang killed fozzie and know he tried to kill alan, so that is not a two day conversion, thats a bad guy from the beginning

My role clearly says I have a chance to reverse convert bad guys. If I am supposed to believe Grey has the -exact same role- then its possible.. I still dont understand how this makes sense.

[saldana]

Gather up your homeboys and start voting for me.

you shouldnt need votes....just change the vote....you have been saying all game you were the duke...the duke can do as he pleases...you threatened to duke me 2 days ago when i didnt have any votes....why should i have to round people up...this is between you and me

[Swaggs]

I feel like I am championing this cause more than I intend to, but is it worthwhile to take a stab at someone we think could be Chaos over someone we think could be a mutant?

The only downside I see to the mutants sticking around, besides the minor victory thing, is that, in a close vote, they can vote together and swing things away from themselves and onto a human.

[Fouts]

you shouldnt need votes....just change the vote....you have been saying all game you were the duke...the duke can do as he pleases...you threatened to duke me 2 days ago when i didnt have any votes....why should i have to round people up...this is between you and me

Because I represent the villagers. The only way I will use it is if I know a villager is being lynched.

[Greyroofoo]

being a mutant and being loyal to the emperor is not mutually exclusive.

rereading my pm it says I saved Mustang. The only thing the makes me less than 100% sure is that the pm does not explicitly say Chaos.

Mustang should be able to finger out other chaos if he ever gets on.

[Alan T]

I feel like I am championing this cause more than I intend to, but is it worthwhile to take a stab at someone we think could be Chaos over someone we think could be a mutant?

The only downside I see to the mutants sticking around, besides the minor victory thing, is that, in a close vote, they can vote together and swing things away from themselves and onto a human.

Who do you have in mind?

[Swaggs]

My role clearly says I have a chance to reverse convert bad guys. If I am supposed to believe Grey has the -exact same role- then its possible.. I still dont understand how this makes sense.

Maybe attacking you or being in your presence somehow converted him?

[Greyroofoo]

being a mutant and being loyal to the emperor is not mutually exclusive.

rereading my pm it says I saved Mustang. The only thing the makes me less than 100% sure is that the pm does not explicitly say Chaos.

Mustang should be able to finger out other chaos if he ever gets on.

dola

less than 100% sure that I CONVERTED him.

[Fouts]

being a mutant and being loyal to the emperor is not mutually exclusive.

rereading my pm it says I saved Mustang. The only thing the makes me less than 100% sure is that the pm does not explicitly say Chaos.

Mustang should be able to finger out other chaos if he ever gets on.

But couldn't you and mustang be making it all up? If mustang fingers the wrong guy, you two will both look very bad.

[Greyroofoo]

i also want to hear if kingfc scanned anybody's role last night

[Swaggs]

Who do you have in mind?

I have Mustang in mind as a mutant. Just wondering whether or not it is smart to try and take out a possible mutant, who is almost certainly not chaos (if we believe Grey), or should we take out a possible Chaos?

[Alan T]

I think I have come to the conclusion that Swaggs is the only sane person left in this game

[saldana]

Because I represent the villagers. The only way I will use it is if I know a villager is being lynched.

thats not what you said thursday...you were threatening me unless i revealed my role...now all of the sudden you are backing away from that....


translation: fouts is not the duke, he is simply a weighted vote for a tiebreaker, just like the masons were. there is absolutely no reason to believe Fouts is not a chaos or mutant, and your "power" is a total ruse.

[Fouts]

I think I have come to the conclusion that Swaggs is the only sane person left in this game

Agreed.

[Alan T]

I have Mustang in mind as a mutant. Just wondering whether or not it is smart to try and take out a possible mutant, who is almost certainly not chaos (if we believe Grey), or should we take out a possible Chaos?

I personally am guessing there are 2 chaos left. I think we'd be best off trying to eliminate 1 more chaos and then try to lock down on the mutants some.. I still think our circle of who isnt chaos looks good. So thats still 7 people to look through.

The only issue is if Grey isnt making stuff up and mustang was converted chaos, there might be 1 left.. If thats the case, this game feels very unbalanced.

[Fouts]

thats not what you said thursday...you were threatening me unless i revealed my role...now all of the sudden you are backing away from that....


translation: fouts is not the duke, he is simply a weighted vote for a tiebreaker, just like the masons were. there is absolutely no reason to believe Fouts is not a chaos or mutant, and your "power" is a total ruse.

No, my power is there to make people talk. But you can believe I don't have it, if you like.

[Swaggs]

I think I have come to the conclusion that Swaggs is the only sane person left in this game

Believe me when I tell you I have my shortcomings in this game. :)

[Chief Rum]

Because I represent the villagers. The only way I will use it is if I know a villager is being lynched.

bullet sends his regards from beyond.

[BrianD]

Alan said path was loyal to the emperor, yet path was a mutant. How do you explain this?

It appears that mutants are loyal to the emperor. They also want to get rid of Chaos.

[Fouts]

It appears that mutants are loyal to the emperor. They also want to get rid of Chaos.

My point is that grey says he converted him and he is NOW loyal to the emperor. If mutants are already loyal to the emperor, how can he have converted him? I know that he backed off that statement in later posts.

So if mustang was a chaos, then we have to believe that the chaos can kill once per night, and attempt a second kill multiple times per game.

[BrianD]

So Fouts, who is/are your main target/s right now? I get the feeling that you are spreading a lot of distrust, but I can't tell if you are leading us toward someone, or away from someone.

[BrianD]

My point is that grey says he converted him and he is NOW loyal to the emperor. If mutants are already loyal to the emperor, how can he have converted him? I know that he backed off that statement in later posts.

So if mustang was a chaos, then we have to believe that the chaos can kill once per night, and attempt a second kill multiple times per game.

So it doesn't make sense for Mustang to be a mutant or a Chaos, but he was converted from something? Please don't let there be a fourth faction in this game. :)

[Greyroofoo]

So if mustang was a chaos, then we have to believe that the chaos can kill once per night, and attempt a second kill multiple times per game.


that could be something that would balance the multiple seers. After all, if Mustang would have suceeded we would have 2 seers down, with me most likely being killed tonight. No more seers then.

[Swaggs]

My point is that grey says he converted him and he is NOW loyal to the emperor. If mutants are already loyal to the emperor, how can he have converted him? I know that he backed off that statement in later posts.

So if mustang was a chaos, then we have to believe that the chaos can kill once per night, and attempt a second kill multiple times per game.

I don't buy the multiple kill thing. Otherwise, why wouldn't they be doing it every night or have already done it? No way the chaos sit on a kill to use later on in the game.

[Fouts]

My theory is that Alan and his followers are either mutant/chaos, and Grey and his followers are the other faction. The only thing I don't get is the connection with GE. GE hasn't told us alot though.

I don't think I'm getting anywhere though, as people are slamming me left and right. I think I'll bow out for the rest of the day.

[BrianD]

I don't buy the multiple kill thing. Otherwise, why wouldn't they be doing it every night or have already done it? No way the chaos sit on a kill to use later on in the game.

Well, they did try to use it at least twice so far. I won't try to explain the other two nights though.

[tanglewood]

The deadline will NOT be moved. It will remain at 9pm EST. There is approximatley 2 hours to go.

[BrianD]

I think I know who I am going to vote for, but I'll wait for Mustang to see if he can tell us anything interesting.

[Alan T]

Other than night one, when for whatever reason there seemed to be 0 night attacks, who was locked up in prison each night and what night did the double attacks start? Anyone have that info handy?

I think off top of my head it was:

1: No kills - St.cronin + no one
2: 1 attack - St.cronin + fouts
3: 2 attacks - St.cronin + twothree
4: 2 attacks - no one jailed.

Is that right?

[saldana]

So Fouts, who is/are your main target/s right now? I get the feeling that you are spreading a lot of distrust, but I can't tell if you are leading us toward someone, or away from someone.

this is exactly what he is doing...spreading distrust and suspicion on everyone else, and trying to deflect any from himself, and at the same time pressuring people to reveal their roles in an effort to "earn their trust"

if it werent for the fact that i saw mustang attack alan as clear as crystal last night, i would be voting for fouts.

[Swaggs]

I don't think I am going to be online for a whole lot longer tonight--had a long day.

I don't really have a great feel and I don't think he is a chaos, but he sounds an awful lot like a mutant, so...

Vote Mustang

I'll try to check back in before the deadline and see if he has a good explanation or something else revealing happens.

[Greyroofoo]

Other than night one, when for whatever reason there seemed to be 0 night attacks, who was locked up in prison each night and what night did the double attacks start? Anyone have that info handy?

I think off top of my head it was:

1: No kills - St.cronin + no one
2: 1 attack - St.cronin + fouts
3: 2 attacks - St.cronin + twothree
4: 2 attacks - no one jailed.

Is that right?

who were the two attacks night 3?

[Greyroofoo]

I really hope mustang gets on tonight, it would be a crying shame if we lynch someone who has info on who the other chaos are.

[Alan T]

who were the two attacks night 3?

Path died, and BrianD said he was. He assumed it was bulletsponge who tried to kill him but changed his mind after what bullet told him. He never did bring it up much after that.

its a small fact that fouts has been trying to gloss over all day.

[Alan T]

I really hope mustang gets on tonight, it would be a crying shame if we lynch someone who has info on who the other chaos are.

Im tempted to vote fouts instead of mustang for partially that reason.

Either that or I just want to be duked to put myself out of my misery.

[BrianD]

Path died, and BrianD said he was. He assumed it was bulletsponge who tried to kill him but changed his mind after what bullet told him. He never did bring it up much after that.

its a small fact that fouts has been trying to gloss over all day.

I didn't bring it up much since it seemed like a dead end. Nobody saw anyone that was out and nobody claimed to be part of the attack.

Now though, we've got a second attack and a witness to the person that was out. Seems a little convenient, but possible.

[Greyroofoo]

dola tangle

can we get a vote count please?

[BrianD]

Tanglewood, when this is all finished, you'll have to let us know how much fun you've been having watching us twisting in the wind. :)

[tanglewood]

Current Vote Count Day 5

Mustang 2 - saldana, Swaggs
Chief Rum 1 - st.cronin
saldana 1 - Fouts
st.cronin 1 - Chief Rum

Still To Vote: GoldenEagle, Greyroofoo, kingfc22, AlanT, BrianD, Mustang

[Greyroofoo]

dola, does anyone NOT think Alan T and I are prime targets? Except perhaps Mustang if he was converted and doesn't speak.

[Greyroofoo]

being killed at night.

[Greyroofoo]

dola,

being killed at night.

[BrianD]

dola, does anyone NOT think Alan T and I are prime targets? Except perhaps Mustang if he was converted and doesn't speak.

Prime targets for lynching, or for being killed at night?

[Alan T]

vote fouts

Have fun.

[Fouts]

vote fouts

Have fun.

So you are going to buy the whole situation from last night and vote for me? Come on Alan, you are a better player than that.

[Abe Sargent]

*pokes through the veil*


BOOOO!!!

[Greyroofoo]

well looks like mustang is finally here

[Alan T]

So you are going to buy the whole situation from last night and vote for me? Come on Alan, you are a better player than that.

What is there for me to buy? My PM very clearly tells me I have a shoulder wound from last night.

I honestly don't know who to trust anymore , even people I have cleared or have been cleared via association just are acting weird.

All I know is that despite me having at least 7-8 people who vouch for me to the 0 that vouch for you, you still refuse to believe I am good. I just can't believe you aren't evil after today with everything you have said.

[Fouts]

What is there for me to buy? My PM very clearly tells me I have a shoulder wound from last night.

I honestly don't know who to trust anymore , even people I have cleared or have been cleared via association just are acting weird.

All I know is that despite me having at least 7-8 people who vouch for me to the 0 that vouch for you, you still refuse to believe I am good. I just can't believe you aren't evil after today with everything you have said.

How can anyone vouch for me? I cannot pm anyone or visit them. So you are condemning me for not having night actions.

[Greyroofoo]

How can anyone vouch for me? I cannot pm anyone or visit them. So you are condemning me for not having night actions.

sounds like someone has night-action-envy ;)

[Mustang]

(sorry, been away from the computer all day)

It is true.. my master wished for me to kill Alan last night but, I failed and I see the error of my ways.

I deserve to die but, I can help in death as much as living.

[Fouts]

(sorry, been away from the computer all day)

It is true.. my master wished for me to kill Alan last night but, I failed and I see the error of my ways.

I deserve to die but, I can help in death as much as living.

This is like watching a light night B movie. Please continue.

[Alan T]

(sorry, been away from the computer all day)

It is true.. my master wished for me to kill Alan last night but, I failed and I see the error of my ways.

I deserve to die but, I can help in death as much as living.

Tell us who your master is/was and I might not vote for you.

[BrianD]

(sorry, been away from the computer all day)

It is true.. my master wished for me to kill Alan last night but, I failed and I see the error of my ways.

I deserve to die but, I can help in death as much as living.

Gee, cryptic much? :)

[Fouts]

Anyone notice the new user, just created today, that is viewing this thread?

[Mustang]

Vote Swaggs

[Greyroofoo]

so swaggs is chaos? is he the only one?

[Alan T]

How can anyone vouch for me? I cannot pm anyone or visit them. So you are condemning me for not having night actions.

No I am condemning you for the utter chaos you have been trying to cause by pointing people in five hundred different directions and trying to cast doubt in almost every single thing. Maybe I am just instantly suspicious of people who come out accusing me knowing what we know.

[Alan T]

Well Mustang, I have to say, you just made things as clear as mud for me.

THanks.

[Fouts]

No I am condemning you for the utter chaos you have been trying to cause by pointing people in five hundred different directions and trying to cast doubt in almost every single thing. Maybe I am just instantly suspicious of people who come out accusing me knowing what we know.

Well, there are a lot of bad guys and I am using everything at my disposal to find them. Unfortunately, I only have guesses, I cannot come up with these wacked out stories that people are willing to blindly follow.

[Mustang]

so swaggs is chaos? is he the only one?

He is the only one I know of and the only one I took orders from. He may have kept others hidden from me for all I know.

[Fouts]

Well, swaggs is one of the only people I trust, so I will not vote for him.

[Greyroofoo]

as I know the Mustang is loyal to the emperor

vote swaggs

[saldana]

Vote Swaggs

so are we to believe that mustang is voting for his former master here....maybe i am a bit paranoid, but that just seems too convenient to believe.

[Mustang]

(sorry guys for being cryptic.. I've been trying to catch up and answer questions as I plow through the 3-4 pages.. just wanted to get something out there ASAP as the deadline is nearing)

[Fouts]

so are we to believe that mustang is voting for his former master here....maybe i am a bit paranoid, but that just seems too convenient to believe.

I'm with you on this one. This feels scripted.

[Greyroofoo]

wow, there seems to be issues with my quick reply

[Fouts]

I am shocked you didn't point at me or cronin, you might have gotten more votes.

[Mustang]

so are we to believe that mustang is voting for his former master here....maybe i am a bit paranoid, but that just seems too convenient to believe.


Ya well.. considering I botched BOTH Brian AND Alan.. I'm sure he isn't too happy with me right now.

[BrianD]

Ya well.. considering I botched BOTH Brian AND Alan.. I'm sure he isn't too happy with me right now.

Anything you can tell us about your mechanics to explain that?

[Greyroofoo]

actually, what do you guys think of having me and/or alanT visiting swaggs tonight, is it possible to convert a chaos lord? or is it just too risky?

[Chief Rum]

Well, swaggs is one of the only people I trust, so I will not vote for him.

Why do you trust him?

When Mustang offered him up, it kinda made sense to me. Swaggs has been pretty UTR for a long time vet player. I could see him playing this one quiet, after we started to rip into each other.

[Fouts]

Why do you trust him?

When Mustang offered him up, it kinda made sense to me. Swaggs has been pretty UTR for a long time vet player. I could see him playing this one quiet, after we started to rip into each other.

In an earlier post, I stated who I trusted based on posts and gut feeling. That list was twothree, st. cronin and swaggs. While this is damning information, it comes from a guy who was supposedly converted. I have never seen a conversion in this game, and that seems like a ton of power for the good guys. Not likely to be true.

[Alan T]

unvote fouts
vote mustang

Considering Chaos players are free to communicate to each other through PMs according to the rules and its the mutants that might not necessarily know each other.. I don't really buy his story.

Maybe he will show up as more useful to us dead than alive like he said.

[Chief Rum]

I am shocked you didn't point at me or cronin, you might have gotten more votes.

More reason to believe him then, wouldn't you think?

[Fouts]

unvote saldana

vote mustang

[Fouts]

Alan, can you explain Grey visiting GE on night 1, but you stating that GE is loyal to the emperor?

[Mustang]

Anything you can tell us about your mechanics to explain that?

I went into your room to kill you.. unfortunately, in my haste, I hit a chair over and woke you up. I tried to go for the kill right away but, you stopped me by knocking the knife away.. We rolled around on the ground for a bit and, hoping to not be caught, I just took off and evaded you by taking a route that you weren't familiar with...

[BrianD]

Vote Swaggs

Grey seems to trust that Mustang is loyal to the emperor, so I'll take his recommendation with the understanding that he is very dead tomorrow if he is leading us in the wrong direction.

[BrianD]

I went into your room to kill you.. unfortunately, in my haste, I hit a chair over and woke you up. I tried to go for the kill right away but, you stopped me by knocking the knife away.. We rolled around on the ground for a bit and, hoping to not be caught, I just took off and evaded you by taking a route that you weren't familiar with...

That matches well with my recolection of the night's events.

[Mustang]

I suck at killing... :(

:D

[Alan T]

Vote Swaggs

Grey seems to trust that Mustang is loyal to the emperor, so I'll take his recommendation with the understanding that he is very dead tomorrow if he is leading us in the wrong direction.

I think for now I would rather kill mustang. His death can answer some questions I have about Greyfooroo. I think parts of mustang's story still seems fishy. You mean to tell me the chaos havent been PMing together from the start of the game like it says they can in the rules?

Combine that with the fact that we have multiple seers and all these cool abilities just seems this game was setup for us to win easily. Something here doesn't seem right.

[Fouts]

Looks like swaggs needs to reveal his role, unless I missed it.

[Chief Rum]

(sorry, been away from the computer all day)

It is true.. my master wished for me to kill Alan last night but, I failed and I see the error of my ways.

I deserve to die but, I can help in death as much as living.

Hmm, he seems to be saying he can help in death as well as life. But he doesn't seem to be harmful now. If we need to, we can kill Mustang tomorrow.

If Swaggs is the only Chaos left, we could win by lynching him today, although it does smell like a set up to me. Once again, this comes down ot my faith in grey and his story on Mustang. grey, you damn well better be telling the truth.

UNVOTE ST. CRONIN

VOTE SWAGGS

[Fouts]

Did swaggs ever reveal his role?

[Fouts]

ok fouts, now do you believe me....mustang has confirmed my vision was correct.

Yes I do. Doesn't mean you aren't a mutant.

[Greyroofoo]

unless my pm is lying to me, Mustang is now loyal to the Emperor.

Like I said before, I am willing to stick my neck out on this.

[saldana]

ok fouts, now do you believe me....mustang has confirmed my vision was correct.

[Chief Rum]

I think for now I would rather kill mustang. His death can answer some questions I have about Greyfooroo. I think parts of mustang's story still seems fishy. You mean to tell me the chaos havent been PMing together from the start of the game like it says they can in the rules?

Combine that with the fact that we have multiple seers and all these cool abilities just seems this game was setup for us to win easily. Something here doesn't seem right.

That might have been countered with a larger than normal number of Chaos, not to mention the mutants. And we certainly have enough suspects.

I think there's some evidence to support Mustang's story, and we can always still kill him tomorrow. I say go after the likely CHaos today, and leave the converted Chaos for tomorrow, if need be.

Plus, you could always have a conversation with grey tonight if you have any doubts. Not sure that we need to kill Mustang to get the answers you seek.

[Mustang]

I think for now I would rather kill mustang. His death can answer some questions I have about Greyfooroo. I think parts of mustang's story still seems fishy. You mean to tell me the chaos havent been PMing together from the start of the game like it says they can in the rules?

Combine that with the fact that we have multiple seers and all these cool abilities just seems this game was setup for us to win easily. Something here doesn't seem right.

I was only contacted a few nights ago. I have no idea what he was up to prior to that.. Killing Swaggs today will not automatically mean a win for the Imperials as I don't know if there are other converted Chaos members that he has kept hidden from me.

[BrianD]

I think for now I would rather kill mustang. His death can answer some questions I have about Greyfooroo. I think parts of mustang's story still seems fishy. You mean to tell me the chaos havent been PMing together from the start of the game like it says they can in the rules?

Combine that with the fact that we have multiple seers and all these cool abilities just seems this game was setup for us to win easily. Something here doesn't seem right.

Grey visited me earlier in the game to make sure I was loyal to the emperor, so I'm willing to trust him pretty completely. If he now trusts Mustang, I will as well.

[Mustang]

I'm going to step away for a bit.. I dont' think there is anything I can add right now. I'll check back in a few..

[Alan T]

That might have been countered with a larger than normal number of Chaos, not to mention the mutants. And we certainly have enough suspects.

I think there's some evidence to support Mustang's story, and we can always still kill him tomorrow. I say go after the likely CHaos today, and leave the converted Chaos for tomorrow, if need be.

Plus, you could always have a conversation with grey tonight if you have any doubts. Not sure that we need to kill Mustang to get the answers you seek.

I doubt I will be alive after tonight to do that anyways.

[BrianD]

I was only contacted a few nights ago. I have no idea what he was up to prior to that.. Killing Swaggs today will not automatically mean a win for the Imperials as I don't know if there are other converted Chaos members that he has kept hidden from me.

Did you start out Chaos, or were you converted to Chaos?

[Greyroofoo]

Grey visited me earlier in the game to make sure I was loyal to the emperor, so I'm willing to trust him pretty completely. If he now trusts Mustang, I will as well.

Not to mention I also visited GoldenEagle night 1 and bulletsponge night 3

[Chief Rum]

Well, considering grey and king are kinda like seers, too, and st. cronin's death could mean the "death of the emperor", as he claims, I am not so sure you are an automatic kill tonight.

And besides, you won't know that until after the night actions are processed anyway, so you will still be sending an action in. If you live, we will likely have our answer, at least on grey.

[Chief Rum]

Anyone got a vote count now?

[Fouts]

I think mustang and his friends have tied it up.

[Greyroofoo]

I really think Alan T and I will be the targets. After all Alan T was a target last night and they already got twothree.

[saldana]

mustang, please clarify, are you a mutant or a chaos

[Fouts]

The way I see it, killing mustang will tell us alot. What does killing swaggs tell us?

[BrianD]

Not to mention I also visited GoldenEagle night 1 and bulletsponge night 3

True, but I can only trust what I know about you, and I know the content of our visit. I don't know the content of your visit with them.

[Chief Rum]

The way I see it, killing mustang will tell us alot. What does killing swaggs tell us?

That the game might be over?

[saldana]

I think mustang and his friends have tied it up.

if the same people that made the late swing last night are on the opposite side of mustang again tonight, i think running the table on them for they lynches should be out remaining strategy....with the exception of the situation last game with dr reiman no longer haing any powers, i cant think of a reason to keep a bad guy alive, especially since greyroofoo is now only pretty sure that he saved him, not totally convinced like he was earlier in the day

[Fouts]

if the same people that made the late swing last night are on the opposite side of mustang again tonight, i think running the table on them for they lynches should be out remaining strategy....with the exception of the situation last game with dr reiman no longer haing any powers, i cant think of a reason to keep a bad guy alive, especially since greyroofoo is now only pretty sure that he saved him, not totally convinced like he was earlier in the day

If you look back at the realdeal lynch, and combine it with todays vote, you will see alot.

[Alan T]

Well if mustang and swaggs were the last two chaos, killing swaggs ends the game with a mutant win.

Or mustang might be lying.

Two reasons swaying me here. Right now I am suspicious of anyone voting for swaggs being a mutant.

[Chief Rum]

if the same people that made the late swing last night are on the opposite side of mustang again tonight, i think running the table on them for they lynches should be out remaining strategy....with the exception of the situation last game with dr reiman no longer haing any powers, i cant think of a reason to keep a bad guy alive, especially since greyroofoo is now only pretty sure that he saved him, not totally convinced like he was earlier in the day

Huh? Quit using negatives. :)

Are you trying to say that those of us who saved bullet should be on the chopping block if we try to kill Mustang?

[BrianD]

If you look back at the realdeal lynch, and combine it with todays vote, you will see alot.

Voting for RealDeal was me, Mustang, Grey, Saldana, a Chaos, a mutant, and a human. That tells us what exactly?

[Alan T]

Voting for RealDeal was me, Mustang, Grey, Saldana, a Chaos, a mutant, and a human. That tells us what exactly?

That it was a day 1 vote? lol

[Greyroofoo]

i voted for realdeal because I thought he was trying to draw out a seer.

Anyways has anyone seen goldeneagle lately? He seems our best chance to find a mutant.

[Fouts]

Voting for RealDeal was me, Mustang, Grey, Saldana, a Chaos, a mutant, and a human. That tells us what exactly?

A late vote switch at the end. Mustang, Grey and BrianD made realdeal the lynch target.

[BrianD]

Well if mustang and swaggs were the last two chaos, killing swaggs ends the game with a mutant win.

Or mustang might be lying.

Two reasons swaying me here. Right now I am suspicious of anyone voting for swaggs being a mutant.

So you are advocating keeping Swaggs alive as the (possible) last Chaos while we hunt down the mutants?

[Greyroofoo]

path voted for realdeal

[Chief Rum]

Voting for RealDeal was me, Mustang, Grey, Saldana, a Chaos, a mutant, and a human. That tells us what exactly?

Wait a sec-- who is the mutant? I thought we only confirmed path?

[Mustang]

Did you start out Chaos, or were you converted to Chaos?

I was friendly to Chaos but, didn't know who to contact... I had to wait for someone to contact me.

[Fouts]

I was friendly to Chaos but, didn't know who to contact... I had to wait for someone to contact me.

Dude, you're lying.

The Chaos players may PM each other freely throughout the game and each night attack a player in their quarters, killing them.

[Alan T]

So you are advocating keeping Swaggs alive as the (possible) last Chaos while we hunt down the mutants?

I don't know that swaggs is the last one.. but I do know killing mustang will tie up several loose ends for us. While killing swaggs could possibly end the game with a mutant win.

We always will have tommorrow to kill swaggs.

[tanglewood]

Current Vote Count Day 5

Swaggs 4 - Mustang, Greyroofoo, BrianD, Chief Rum
Mustang 4 - saldana, Swaggs, AlanT, Fouts
Chief Rum 1 - st.cronin

Still To Vote: GoldenEagle, kingfc22

[Fouts]

That vote count doesn't look right.

[BrianD]

I don't know that swaggs is the last one.. but I do know killing mustang will tie up several loose ends for us. While killing swaggs could possibly end the game with a mutant win.

We always will have tommorrow to kill swaggs.

According to Mustang, he is a non-Chaos but a Chaos sympathizer. If we kill him, we will probably see that he is human (mutant or not is unknown), so I'm not sure what that will tell us.

[Alan T]

According to Mustang, he is a non-Chaos but a Chaos sympathizer. If we kill him, we will probably see that he is human (mutant or not is unknown), so I'm not sure what that will tell us.

That we can trust Greyfoo and you more for one. That Swaggs is pretty surely a bad guy. And we arent any worse off than we were yesterday. We killed someone who was bad yesterday at least.

[Chief Rum]

That vote count doesn't look right.

I think Fouts is right. Didn't AlanT vote for Mustang?

[Alan T]

That vote count doesn't look right.

Its not right. I voted for mustang. not swaggs

[Mustang]

If you pick me to lynch me tonight, I will be shown to be good..

Swaggs will then take the opportunity to find others to convert tonight. If anyone converts, once that happens, you'll be starting with complete unknowns... those that were good can no longer be trusted..

[BrianD]

That we can trust Greyfoo and you more for one. That Swaggs is pretty surely a bad guy. And we arent any worse off than we were yesterday. We killed someone who was bad yesterday at least.

Confused, didn't we kill Bullet last night?

[Greyroofoo]

Confused, didn't we kill Bullet last night?

i think meant that mustang was bad yesterday

[tanglewood]

Its not right. I voted for mustang. not swaggs

I apologise. I misread that post. Vote Count fixed.

[Fouts]

I was Chaos but, couldn't do anything.

If you would have killed me up to this point, I would have shown to be Chaos.

Then tell us who you were working with because you can freely PM with them.

[saldana]

Huh? Quit using negatives. :)

Are you trying to say that those of us who saved bullet should be on the chopping block if we try to kill Mustang?

no.

i am saying you should be on the chopping block if you do anything BUT try to kill mustang

[Mustang]

According to Mustang, he is a non-Chaos but a Chaos sympathizer. If we kill him, we will probably see that he is human (mutant or not is unknown), so I'm not sure what that will tell us.

I was Chaos but, couldn't do anything.

If you would have killed me up to this point, I would have shown to be Chaos.

[BrianD]

If you pick me to lynch me tonight, I will be shown to be good..

Swaggs will then take the opportunity to find others to convert tonight. If anyone converts, once that happens, you'll be starting with complete unknowns... those that were good can no longer be trusted..

Agreed, isn't it better to lynch those that can convert before we track down all of those that have been converted?

[Alan T]

Confused, didn't we kill Bullet last night?

Not quite what I meant.. I meant at least we would today be killing someone who was bad yesterday. So no worse off than yesterday

[Fouts]

i dont believe there are infinite conversions in this game...it would make it utterly impossibly to win.

If people can convert back and forth, I am going strangle tanglewood.

[saldana]

If you pick me to lynch me tonight, I will be shown to be good..

Swaggs will then take the opportunity to find others to convert tonight. If anyone converts, once that happens, you'll be starting with complete unknowns... those that were good can no longer be trusted..

i dont believe there are infinite conversions in this game...it would make it utterly impossibly to win.

[Chief Rum]

no.

i am saying you should be on the chopping block if you do anything BUT try to kill mustang

Okay, now that I have that understand, please explain your logic again on why one equates with the other?

[Mustang]

Then tell us who you were working with because you can freely PM with them.

I did.. Swaggs.

While I was Chaos, I could not contact anyone until I was contacted by Swaggs. I assume there could be others that are hidden from me that can not contact us until they are contacted.

Sleeper cells.. so to speak.

[Alan T]

If people can convert back and forth, I am going strangle tanglewood.

lol

[BrianD]

no.

i am saying you should be on the chopping block if you do anything BUT try to kill mustang

Can you explain that logic? If Mustang is right and Swaggs converted him, how does killing Mustang help? Sure, it will help us trust Grey, but I already do. If we kill Swaggs and he really is Chaos, that will help us trust Grey and Mustang. If we kill Mustang and he is a mutant, we won't know anything about Swaggs or Grey. Swaggs could be Chaos or he could have been a distraction. I think killing Swaggs tells us the most.

[Greyroofoo]

I probably have done more to gain trust then just about anyone here, and you guys are still going to kill mustang?

[saldana]

Okay, now that I have that understand, please explain your logic again on why one equates with the other?

because mustang is a known bad guy...we have nothing but his word to incriminate swaggs. we also dont know for sure that he was "saved" greyroofoo openly admitted he is not sure he saved him. we still have grey, GE, and Alan to perform their versions of scans tonight and find out what the story with swaggs is...if i were a bad guy that got nailed dead to rights, i would immediately point my finger at someone that wasnt on the board at the time and say they were also bad....and i would be lying when i did it.

the safest strategy here is to eliminate the known quantity...let the seers/savers take a look at swaggs tonight instead of taking the word of someone that has tried to kill at least two of our members.

[Alan T]

Can you explain that logic? If Mustang is right and Swaggs converted him, how does killing Mustang help? Sure, it will help us trust Grey, but I already do. If we kill Swaggs and he really is Chaos, that will help us trust Grey and Mustang. If we kill Mustang and he is a mutant, we won't know anything about Swaggs or Grey. Swaggs could be Chaos or he could have been a distraction. I think killing Swaggs tells us the most.

Im not willing to risk that move ending the game with a mutant victory just yet.

[Fouts]

because mustang is a known bad guy...we have nothing but his word to incriminate swaggs. we also dont know for sure that he was "saved" greyroofoo openly admitted he is not sure he saved him. we still have grey, GE, and Alan to perform their versions of scans tonight and find out what the story with swaggs is...if i were a bad guy that got nailed dead to rights, i would immediately point my finger at someone that wasnt on the board at the time and say they were also bad....and i would be lying when i did it.

the safest strategy here is to eliminate the known quantity...let the seers/savers take a look at swaggs tonight instead of taking the word of someone that has tried to kill at least two of our members.

Stroke of genius. Well done (mutant).

[saldana]

for those of you voting for swaggs instead of mustang, answer this

WHY IN THE HELL WOULD MUSTANG GIVE UP HIS DAEMON LORD????....IF THE CHAOS WIN THE GAME, HE STILL WINS!!! HE WILL BE DEAD, BUT HIS TEAM WILL STILL WIN THE GAME!!!

let the seers check on swaggs....vote mustang

[Greyroofoo]

for those of you voting for swaggs instead of mustang, answer this

WHY IN THE HELL WOULD MUSTANG GIVE UP HIS DAEMON LORD????....IF THE CHAOS WIN THE GAME, HE STILL WINS!!! HE WILL BE DEAD, BUT HIS TEAM WILL STILL WIN THE GAME!!!

let the seers check on swaggs....vote mustang

because mustang was converted?

[BrianD]

because mustang is a known bad guy...we have nothing but his word to incriminate swaggs. we also dont know for sure that he was "saved" greyroofoo openly admitted he is not sure he saved him. we still have grey, GE, and Alan to perform their versions of scans tonight and find out what the story with swaggs is...if i were a bad guy that got nailed dead to rights, i would immediately point my finger at someone that wasnt on the board at the time and say they were also bad....and i would be lying when i did it.

the safest strategy here is to eliminate the known quantity...let the seers/savers take a look at swaggs tonight instead of taking the word of someone that has tried to kill at least two of our members.

But Mustang isn't a known bad guy. You say you saw him attack Alan, and Grey immediately responds by saying he converted him. Grey cleared me, which I know to be right, and he cleared Bullet. I can't ignore him clearing Mustang.

[Fouts]

But Mustang isn't a known bad guy. You say you saw him attack Alan, and Grey immediately responds by saying he converted him. Grey cleared me, which I know to be right, and he cleared Bullet. I can't ignore him clearing Mustang.

Brian, isn't it possible that each faction can scan/visit people? If twothree was human, what does that make grey and alan?

[Mustang]

I'd give up my Lord because I no longer follow him.

Nicely played Mutant.

By the way, Swaggs won't go away easy. It will take several nights to dispatch him. All the time while he tries to convert people...

[Alan T]

I think in this list:

Swaggs 4 - Mustang, Greyroofoo, BrianD, Chief Rum

We have 2 or possibly 3 mutants trying to winthe game tonight.

[BrianD]

Im not willing to risk that move ending the game with a mutant victory just yet.

Then why are you looking to kill a converted Chaos? Killing a non-mutant because you don't want to kill a Chaos sounds pretty goofy.

[saldana]

I think killing Swaggs tells us the most.


if he is a good guy, all it tells us that you guys got swindled by a chaos, and we have one less loyalist left.

[Chief Rum]

for those of you voting for swaggs instead of mustang, answer this

WHY IN THE HELL WOULD MUSTANG GIVE UP HIS DAEMON LORD????....IF THE CHAOS WIN THE GAME, HE STILL WINS!!! HE WILL BE DEAD, BUT HIS TEAM WILL STILL WIN THE GAME!!!

let the seers check on swaggs....vote mustang

BECAUSE HE WAS CONVERTED!!

(just tongue-in-cheek yelling in response ;) ).

I am serious about the content of the response, though.

[Greyroofoo]

JUST VOTE FOR SWAGGS

[saldana]

because mustang was converted?

are you sure....you said you were sure, then you said you were 80 percent sure, then you said you believed he was.....that doesnt imbue me with confidence.

[Alan T]

Then why are you looking to kill a converted Chaos? Killing a non-mutant because you don't want to kill a Chaos sounds pretty goofy.

Why does it sound goofy? I was guessing we had 2 chaos left. If mustang is telling the truth, he was #1, Swaggs was #2.. So either 1) Killing swaggs ends the game with a mutant win, or 2) there were more chaos left then we had originally thought.

Either way, I think risk/reward killing either of them tells us stuff about people.

Killing swaggs is much riskier to ending the game

[Mustang]

all it tells us that you guys got swindled by a chaos

Well, if I'm still Chaos and Swaggs is innocent then I demand an Oscar for my performance...

[Greyroofoo]

well Alan T, do you think its me or you that'll die tonight

[Fouts]

OMG another tie. I am so lucky to decide the kill yet again.

[BrianD]

for those of you voting for swaggs instead of mustang, answer this

WHY IN THE HELL WOULD MUSTANG GIVE UP HIS DAEMON LORD????....IF THE CHAOS WIN THE GAME, HE STILL WINS!!! HE WILL BE DEAD, BUT HIS TEAM WILL STILL WIN THE GAME!!!

let the seers check on swaggs....vote mustang

Again, I trust Grey when he says he can clear Mustang. I can't believe you wouldn't trust him after the situation with Bullet.

[saldana]

I know that Mustang is good NOW.

While I am 80% sure I converted him, there's a chance he wasn't chaos before I visited him, which would lead me to believe he's a mutant assassin.

this sound familiar...this is not a chance i think we should be taking...and we definitely shouldnt be following his advice

[Alan T]

looks like we end in a tie.

[Greyroofoo]

well voting seems to be over and there seems to be timestamp issues with my posts. I can't believe you guys don't trust me yet.

[Chief Rum]

are you sure....you said you were sure, then you said you were 80 percent sure, then you said you believed he was.....that doesnt imbue me with confidence.

He went over this. He is 100% sure he left him as good. He is less than 100% sure Mustang was anything before that (but he 80% suspects him of being a former Chaos).

[tanglewood]

Voting closed.

[tanglewood]

FINAL Vote Count Day 5

Swaggs 4 - Mustang, Greyroofoo, BrianD, Chief Rum
Mustang 4 - saldana, Swaggs, AlanT, Fouts
Chief Rum 1 - st.cronin

Did Not Vote: GoldenEagle, kingfc22

Write-up coming.

[BrianD]

Brian, isn't it possible that each faction can scan/visit people? If twothree was human, what does that make grey and alan?

By that logic, Grey and Alan would be Chaos and Mutants. Since Grey visited me and let me live without conversion, I would have to assume that he is loyal to the emperor. That means Alan would be Chaos. I suppose that could be possible, Alan voted for Bullet, Blade, Anxiety, and me. He cleared GE after Grey cleared GE, so he could be bad. He just doesn't feel that way to me. Am I letting him dupe me?

[Chief Rum]

If Alan is Chaos, it is the most amazing role play I have seen.

[Mustang]

Well.. this should be interesting.

[saldana]

not to mention the fact that there has never ever ever ever ever ever been such a thing as a reverse conversion....and who ever said that they would strangle tanglewood if such a thing existed, i will be in line right behind them

[Chief Rum]

bullshit...scroll up about 3 posts from yours...i quoted grey.

Read my post. Then review what you quoted.

[saldana]

He went over this. He is 100% sure he left him as good. He is less than 100% sure Mustang was anything before that (but he 80% suspects him of being a former Chaos).

bullshit...scroll up about 3 posts from yours...i quoted grey.

[Greyroofoo]

bullshit...scroll up about 3 posts from yours...i quoted grey.

and from my quote you should know we are killing a person loyal to the emperor

[Alan T]

not to mention the fact that there has never ever ever ever ever ever been such a thing as a reverse conversion....and who ever said that they would strangle tanglewood if such a thing existed, i will be in line right behind them

Hate to say it, but my role says I can reverse convert

[Mustang]

not to mention the fact that there has never ever ever ever ever ever been such a thing as a reverse conversion....and who ever said that they would strangle tanglewood if such a thing existed, i will be in line right behind them

Well... prepare for the first one.

[Fouts]

Well... prepare for the first one.

Convince me to kill swaggs, you got 1 minute.

[Mustang]

Although... this explains my role and meaning a hell of alot more. :)

[Greyroofoo]

i'll repeat this, my pm told me that Mustang is LOYAL to the EMPEROR

[saldana]

Hate to say it, but my role says I can reverse convert

then this game is officially impossible. fouts if you can kill me, please do.

[BrianD]

Why does it sound goofy? I was guessing we had 2 chaos left. If mustang is telling the truth, he was #1, Swaggs was #2.. So either 1) Killing swaggs ends the game with a mutant win, or 2) there were more chaos left then we had originally thought.

Either way, I think risk/reward killing either of them tells us stuff about people.

Killing swaggs is much riskier to ending the game

It sounds goofy because killing Mustang seems pointless. You say we don't want to kill Swaggs because that could end the game and give us a minor victory. Fine, but the alternative would be to take out mutants. Mustang isn't going to be a mutant if he is a converted Chaos, so his death doesn't help us toward a major victory. If we don't want to kill Swaggs, then we need to try to find a mutant and view Swaggs tonight. Mustang seems the 'safe' choice since it can't hurt us, but it doesn't really help.

[Chief Rum]

Everything grey has said checks out so far.

grey said Mustang is good now, but was likely Chaos.

Mustang said he was Chaos, and he received his orders from Swaggs.

There's the evidence chain.

[Fouts]

then this game is officially impossible. fouts if you can kill me, please do.

Try doing it from my end, without a night action. Its almost impossible.

[Fouts]

Everything grey has said checks out so far.

grey said Mustang is good now, but was likely Chaos.

Mustang said he was Chaos, and he received his orders from Swaggs.

There's the evidence chain.

What if swaggs comes up innocent?