Werewolf 40,000: The Horus Heresy CHAOS DEFEATED; MUTANTS SURVIVE

[Chief Rum]

What if swaggs comes up innocent?

Then we kill Mustang.

[Chief Rum]

Then we kill Mustang followed by Grey.

Yup.

[Greyroofoo]

if swaggs comes up innocent it probably means mustang is a mutant and I'll vote myself

[Mustang]

If you pick Swaggs.. he won't die, he will continue on for a second night. If you prolong this out, that means 2 nights of him trying to convert others instead of just one night.

You have to pick him tomorrow too to finish him.

Killing me tonight, you will give him that extra time.

[BrianD]

What if swaggs comes up innocent?

Then we kill Mustang followed by Grey.

[Fouts]

Then we kill Mustang followed by Grey.

Can't we just jump straight to grey? He is pulling the strings.

[Greyroofoo]

wow, there is some major timestamp issues

[Greyroofoo]

Fouts? Why do you think I am bad?

[Fouts]

if swaggs comes up innocent it probably means mustang is a mutant and I'll vote myself

Nah, a mutant wouldn't point at a villager.

[Alan T]

If swaggs is innocent it means you all got duped into voting off someone who had given us some previously valuable information

[BrianD]

Can't we just jump straight to grey? He is pulling the strings.

I would be willing to give that serious thought. It might be that Mustang lied to us and Grey mis-read his night action report, but I'm willing to entertain the thought that Grey is lying too. I think they would both need to go, and I don't care too much what order it happens in.

[Greyroofoo]

fouts, don't make the mistake with mustang that you made with bullet

[Chief Rum]

Can't we just jump straight to grey? He is pulling the strings.

Only if Swaggs is innocent. I don't think he is. There is a more direct evidentiary chain to conclude Swaggs is Chaos, then there is that grey is Chaos (which is largely circumstantial, and ignores a lot of players vouching for him). I would go for the more sure thing (Swaggs) than the longshot (grey).

[BrianD]

If swaggs is innocent it means you all got duped into voting off someone who had given us some previously valuable information

What was it that Swaggs gave us?

[Fouts]

I would be willing to give that serious thought. It might be that Mustang lied to us and Grey mis-read his night action report, but I'm willing to entertain the thought that Grey is lying too. I think they would both need to go, and I don't care too much what order it happens in.

Is it possible that mustang's attack on you was fake? That the chaos put that out there for information purposes? And his real attack was on Alan.?

[saldana]

If you pick Swaggs.. he won't die, he will continue on for a second night. If you prolong this out, that means 2 nights of him trying to convert others instead of just one night.

You have to pick him tomorrow too to finish him.

Killing me tonight, you will give him that extra time.

so we have a chaos lord that requires two lyches to kill and has limitless ability to perform conversions, and those converts can attempt a kill every night, plus a 3rd faction of mutants that have completely unknown powers.

if this is even close to correct, this is the most lopsided game i have ever seen

[Mustang]

I must say.. now that I don't have to hide and I know what is going on, I find this insanely humorous at all the paranoia... :D

[Fouts]

I must say.. now that I don't have to hide and I know what is going on, I find this insanely humorous at all the paranoia... :D

How can you know what is going on? You only talked to swaggs once.

[Chief Rum]

so we have a chaos lord that requires two lyches to kill and has limitless ability to perform conversions, and those converts can attempt a kill every night, plus a 3rd faction of mutants that have completely unknown powers.

if this is even close to correct, this is the most lopsided game i have ever seen

Agreed. If this is the case, I say we all kill tangle after this. ;)

[Mustang]

so we have a chaos lord that requires two lyches to kill and has limitless ability to perform conversions, and those converts can attempt a kill every night, plus a 3rd faction of mutants that have completely unknown powers.

if this is even close to correct, this is the most lopsided game i have ever seen

I do not believe it is automatic.. he could reach out but, I do not believe that it is automatic.. probably some predetermined % of conversion that may or may not happen.

[Alan T]

What was it that Swaggs gave us?

Swaggs came out vouching for me as a non mutant/non chaos. only person who has so far.

And I wouldn't just isolate yourself from Grey just yet Brian. Right now as far as I am concerned, you two are a pair.

[tanglewood]

The inquest into twothree's death does not progress far before AlanT claims that he was attacked the previous night. Saldana soon jumps in firmly confimring the attack and indeed saying that he saw the attacker in a vision, Mustang. But to further complicate the picture, Greyroofoo steps forward and says that he visited Mustang and believes his is now on the side of the Emperor. A tremendous surge of accusations on various parties is only frther fulled when Mustang arrives, corroborates with Greyroofoo's conversion tale and with AlanT's recollection of the attack and then fingers Swaggs as his former master. Opinion is once again perfectly divided and Fouts is called to break another tie, which he does quickly, condemning Mustang to death.

Mustang takes the decision suprisingly well and steps up to the executioner. His final speech is short and to the point "I have commited much wrong in my life. May I make amends for the sins I have commited in life with faith and devotion in death." With that, he gently lays his head on the block, closes his eyes and awaits the executioner's strike. When it is delivered it is swift and suprisingly clean. But before anyone can reach Mustang's body to verify it, his Space Marine robes collapse to the ground, the body is nowhere to be seen. He has simply dissapeared...

[Mustang]

How can you know what is going on? You only talked to swaggs once.

I mean, with my conversion to good. I know the bad guys.. so, the level of paranoia right now with everyone is high.

I've talked to him the last few nights actually..

[Fouts]

The inquest into twothree's death does not progress far before AlanT claims that he was attacked the previous night. Saldana soon jumps in firmly confimring the attack and indeed saying that he saw the attacker in a vision, Mustang. But to further complicate the picture, Greyroofoo steps forward and says that he visited Mustang and believes his is now on the side of the Emperor. A tremendous surge of accusations on various parties is only frther fulled when Mustang arrives, corroborates with Greyroofoo's conversion tale and with AlanT's recollection of the attack and then fingers Swaggs as his former master. Opinion is once again perfectly divided and Fouts is called to break another tie, which he does quickly, condemning Mustang to death.

Mustang takes the decision suprisingly well and steps up to the executioner. His final speech is short and to the point "I have commited much wrong in my life. May I make amends for the sins I have commited in life with faith and devotion in death." With that, he gently lays his head on the block, closes his eyes and awaits the executioner's strike. When it is delivered it is swift and suprisingly clean. But before anyone can reach Mustang's body to verify it, his Space Marine robes collapse to the ground, the body is nowhere to be seen. He has simply dissapeared...

Great, the GM is fucking with us.

[Greyroofoo]

does this mean Mustang had the ability to avoid a lynching?

I''m confused

[Mustang]

You have chosen... poorly.

[Alan T]

So mustang was obi won kanobi

[BrianD]

so we have a chaos lord that requires two lyches to kill and has limitless ability to perform conversions, and those converts can attempt a kill every night, plus a 3rd faction of mutants that have completely unknown powers.

if this is even close to correct, this is the most lopsided game i have ever seen

I'm not sure this is all accurate. Mustang said that he was Chaos but couldn't communicate with anyone. That isn't really a conversion. Mustang is also saying that Swaggs can convert people, so I don't know what to make of that. It doesn't seem consistent. There has only been one extra night attack each of the last few nights so either we have only one conversion (activated Chaos), or they don't get extra night attacks. If Swaggs is a Chaos lord and Mustang isn't on the attack anymore, there shouldn't be any extra kills tonight and we'll just have to hunt down any other converts while we hunt the mutants.

[Fouts]

So is Mustang still in the game?

[BrianD]

Swaggs came out vouching for me as a non mutant/non chaos. only person who has so far.

And I wouldn't just isolate yourself from Grey just yet Brian. Right now as far as I am concerned, you two are a pair.

I am fine with us being a pair because I firmly believe that Grey is good and Swaggs is bad. Looks like we didn't get a chance to find out though since Fouts went the safe route and we've got no new info.

[Chief Rum]

Great. That's just screwed up. We essentially learned nothing. Well, we did learn that, since killing Mustang earned us nothing, not killing Swaggs was likely a mistake.

[tanglewood]

Night actions are due by 9AM EST

[Fouts]

Night actions are due by 9AM EST

Come on, wtf is going on? So we cannot kill Mustang? Is he still in the game?

[Fouts]

Was that a Chaos death, or was Mustang what he accused Swaggs of being?

Either way, grey is full of it.

[Greyroofoo]

Night actions are due by 9AM EST

STOP MESSING WITH OUR HEADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :confused:

[BrianD]

Was that a Chaos death, or was Mustang what he accused Swaggs of being?

[Fouts]

Great. That's just screwed up. We essentially learned nothing. Well, we did learn that, since killing Mustang earned us nothing, not killing Swaggs was likely a mistake.

Mustang pulls a disappearing act and you still believe the guy? Amazing.

[Chief Rum]

Anxiety didn't die that way, IIRC.

Page 1 says Mustang is a ghost now...ummm, okay...

[tanglewood]

Come on, wtf is going on? So we cannot kill Mustang? Is he still in the game?

Mustang is dead. He is now a ghost. He can communicate at night only. He cannot vote.

[BrianD]

Primarch of the Dark Angels - Mustang - Executed Day 5 -- GHOST

This was on the first page.

[Mustang]

If Swaggs is a Chaos lord and Mustang isn't on the attack anymore, there shouldn't be any extra kills tonight and we'll just have to hunt down any other converts while we hunt the mutants.

There might not be any kills tonight.

I'm fairly certain that it was just me and Anxiety in the beginning. No kills the first night means that Swaggs reached out to Anxiety. 1 kill the second night meant Anxiety probably killed someone and Swaggs reached out.. 2 attempted kills the 3rd night as we didn't reach out to anyone and 2 attempted kills the 4th night as we didn't reach out to anyone. My guess is that he will have to reach out tonight to someone and there will be no kills.

Sorry gents, I think you might be at square one all over again.

By the way.. if you see me floating around at night and still talking.. don't be alarmed.

[BrianD]

Either way, grey is full of it.

This doesn't prove Grey wrong. In fact, this is pretty much what he and Mustang told us would happen. Mustang said he was Chaos but is now loyal, and this death could work for a Chaos. This is why I was pushing for a Swaggs lynching since it would actually tell us something.

[Mustang]

It will take 2 kills to kill Swaggs..

I do NOT know what will happen on the first kill.

What I'm fearful of is this.. killing him will release the demon who will possess someone.. Swaggs will be out of the game and someone else will become the lord.

[Fouts]

It will take 2 kills to kill Swaggs..

I do NOT know what will happen on the first kill.

What I'm fearful of is this.. killing him will release the demon who will possess someone.. Swaggs will be out of the game and someone else will become the lord.

I don't think so. How about the first kill makes you a ghost, Chaos Lord.

[Chief Rum]

Mustang pulls a disappearing act and you still believe the guy? Amazing.

Fouts, now it is my turn. I am increasingly getting the vibe you are making things personal with comments like this. Please cease and desist from making any commentaries about me that are essentially insults to my intelligence.

[BrianD]

At this point, we deserve to lose. How many times have we gained nothing by not believing anything anybody tells us? At some point we need to trust a big reveal and kill the revealer if we find out he lied.

[Greyroofoo]

Mustang, do you have any idea what would happen if Alan T and/or I try to "convert" swaggs?

[Fouts]

Fouts, now it is my turn. I am increasingly getting the vibe you are making things personal with comments like this. Please cease and desist from making any commentaries about me that are essentially insults to my intelligence.

Not at all. I don't even know you. I am talking about the player in the game.

[BrianD]

I don't think so. How about the first kill makes you a ghost, Chaos Lord.

I would say that is possible, but it sounds like Mustang is out of the game in terms of the voting process.

TW, can you confirm that we can no longer vote for Mustang?

[Mustang]

I don't think so. How about the first kill makes you a ghost, Chaos Lord.

*L*

Nice try. Unfortunately, if you think I'm the lord and it takes 2 kills to off me.. how are you going to do that during the day when I'm not around?

Hard to kill a ghost.. No?

[Fouts]

*L*

Nice try. Unfortunately, if you think I'm the lord and it takes 2 kills to off me.. how are you going to do that during the day when I'm not around?

Hard to kill a ghost.. No?

Hell if I know. You're the one that knows what is going on, I don't know anything. I am considering withdrawing.

[Chief Rum]

Not at all. I don't even know you. I am talking about the player in the game.

Then don't make it about the player in the game. Just don't do it.

[saldana]

i honestly have no intention of believing anything mustang says about his former masters.

[Alan T]

I honestly think I learned something with the mustang death. Maybe its just me though.

[Fouts]

At this point, we deserve to lose. How many times have we gained nothing by not believing anything anybody tells us? At some point we need to trust a big reveal and kill the revealer if we find out he lied.

You are still saying we killed a good guy?

[Greyroofoo]

I honestly think I learned something with the mustang death. Maybe its just me though.

it means we've screwed the pooch so far

[BrianD]

I honestly think I learned something with the mustang death. Maybe its just me though.

Care to share with the rest of the class?

[saldana]

Mustang is dead. He is now a ghost. He can communicate at night only. He cannot vote.

this just adds to the imbalance....everyone else that died, we were told that they were a mutant, chaos, or loyal human...this time we get ghost....which does absolutely nothing to help those of us left in the game...we should at least be told his status before he died.

[tanglewood]

TW, can you confirm that we can no longer vote for Mustang?

Mustang is dead. He cannot vote nor be voted for. For all intents and purposes he is out of the game, barring that he is still allowed to communicate at night only.

[Mustang]

Mustang, do you have any idea what would happen if Alan T and/or I try to "convert" swaggs?

I don't know.

My guess is that he can not be converted. If anything, you might have to try to convert 2 nights in a row or convert and then kill. Maybe a convert counts as a kill?

Unfortunately, all that is speculation right now on my part. There are some things I just don't know. Everything I do know I've spilled the beans on and everything else is just going to be speculation by me at this point.

[BrianD]

You are still saying we killed a good guy?

I have no idea. Grey said he converted a Chaos member, and Mustang said he was a converted Chaos member. Since we killed him off right away, we can't test those assertions. What we found out from his death was totally inconclusive. This is why I was pushing to take out Swaggs. If Swaggs was Chaos, we would know we could trust Grey and Mustang. If Swaggs was good, we would know that Mustang was very bad and we would be quite positive that Grey was bad. We don't know if things are better, worse, or the same right now.

[Greyroofoo]

i say things are worse, we lost a loyalist and Swaggs has more time to do his dirty work.

[Alan T]

Care to share with the rest of the class?

I still think that its interesting the people who voted for swaggs were people I have had on my mutant suspect list. and people who voted for mustang were either people I felt good about or people I thought were chaos.

I think this vote might be helpful in trying to figure out who is on which side.

[BrianD]

I still think that its interesting the people who voted for swaggs were people I have had on my mutant suspect list. and people who voted for mustang were either people I felt good about or people I thought were chaos.

I think this vote might be helpful in trying to figure out who is on which side.

Ah, so I push for a vote which will actually tell us something, and you push for a vote which tells us nothing....so you can voice your own theories.

[Fouts]

I still think that its interesting the people who voted for swaggs were people I have had on my mutant suspect list. and people who voted for mustang were either people I felt good about or people I thought were chaos.

I think this vote might be helpful in trying to figure out who is on which side.

I was thinking that the people who voted for swaggs were chaos, and you and saldana are mutants. Don't fly off the handle, I'm just telling my thoughts. I'm going to have to put that in every one of my posts.

[saldana]

I was thinking that the people who voted for swaggs were chaos, and you and saldana are mutants. Don't fly off the handle, I'm just telling my thoughts. I'm going to have to put that in every one of my posts.

maybe you should make it your signature? fwiw, i am in the same frustration boat as you, and i still think you are a chaos, so no offense taken here.

[Fouts]

You still think Swaggs is not Chaos?

Yes. The only proof is the word of a guy who "was" Chaos, and is now a ghost. Give me some more proof.

[BrianD]

I was thinking that the people who voted for swaggs were chaos, and you and saldana are mutants. Don't fly off the handle, I'm just telling my thoughts. I'm going to have to put that in every one of my posts.

You still think Swaggs is not Chaos?

[Fouts]

Yes. The only proof is the word of a guy who "was" Chaos, and is now a ghost. Give me some more proof.

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only good guy participating in this game.

[Mustang]

I do not think anyone that was in any group is Chaos other than Swaggs. He is the only chaos I know right now.

After tonight, if there are no kills, I can not guarantee that.

[Greyroofoo]

i still can't believe you guys don't trust me yet

[BrianD]

Yes. The only proof is the word of a guy who "was" Chaos, and is now a ghost. Give me some more proof.

I don't have any more proof. He was on my un-cleared list and he was fingered by Grey - through his clearing of Mustang. I don't have anything more than that. Maybe sending one of our seers after him tonight would be worthwhile?

[Chief Rum]

i still can't believe you guys don't trust me yet

Stop saying that. ;)

[Fouts]

I don't have any more proof. He was on my un-cleared list and he was fingered by Grey - through his clearing of Mustang. I don't have anything more than that. Maybe sending one of our seers after him tonight would be worthwhile?

Yes, depends on which one.

[Fouts]

Brian confirmed the mechanics of my attempted kill...
Grey confirmed he converted me.

So, you either believe Brian & Grey or you lynch them tomorrow thinking we have all banded together and are all Chaos..

Good idea, but I can't lynch them both.

[Mustang]

Yes. The only proof is the word of a guy who "was" Chaos, and is now a ghost. Give me some more proof.


Brian confirmed the mechanics of my attempted kill...
Grey confirmed he converted me.

So, you either believe Brian & Grey or you lynch them tomorrow thinking we have all banded together and are all Chaos..

[BrianD]

Yes, depends on which one.

I'm willing to let you take your pick.

[Chief Rum]

Brian confirmed the mechanics of my attempted kill...
Grey confirmed he converted me.

So, you either believe Brian & Grey or you lynch them tomorrow thinking we have all banded together and are all Chaos..

And if you don't believe grey is good, then you must believe GE isn't good either, as they met on Night One. And that somehow, grey being bad was ignored by Blade, the bodyguard, who was good. And that, despite being bad, grey led an effort to save bullet, who was good.

Well, sheesh, I am convinced myself--grey must be bad.

[BrianD]

Good idea, but I can't lynch them both.

I hate to keep saying this, but if you had lynched Swaggs tonight, you'd know for sure if you needed to lynch me and Grey. Do you really think I would have been pushing so hard for such a definitive answer if I wasn't confident on the outcome?

[Chief Rum]

I'm willing to let you take your pick.

I would tell both of them to scan the same guy.

[BrianD]

I would tell both of them to scan the same guy.

That would work too. Let them compare notes.

[st.cronin]

Well now. Had I been around, I would have almost certainly voted for Swaggs. But I'm not a mutant.

[kingfc22]

I have some very big information. Let me catch up before I announce my findings.

[kingfc22]

Awwww. Crap. We ran a day phase today?!?!?!?!?

[Chief Rum]

Awwww. Crap. We ran a day phase today?!?!?!?!?

Well, we were originally going to do that. It just got a late start because of TW's real life issues.

I definitely look forward to hearing what you have to say (is it from last night's night actions, I am guessing?).

[kingfc22]

Well, we were originally going to do that. It just got a late start because of TW's real life issues.

I definitely look forward to hearing what you have to say (is it from last night's night actions, I am guessing?).

Yea, it is from last night's phase. I thought since TW didn't get the night post til this afternoon EST, I figured we would push the day phase back a day. Had to work and just got home.:(

[st.cronin]

Yea, it is from last night's phase. I thought since TW didn't get the night post til this afternoon EST, I figured we would push the day phase back a day. Had to work and just got home.:(

That's probably what he SHOULD have done. I got squeezed for time a little myself.

[Greyroofoo]

well at least we had enough time to make a mistake

[GoldenEagle]

I really wish we would not have played today. With it being a holiday and all, I was no where near my computer. I guess it is time to get caught up and what not.....

[kingfc22]

Okay. Finally caught up. Lats night I investigated saldana because something just didn't seem right. To my pleasent surprise I was RIGHT.

My investigation was very hard last night. It took me a lot of sources to get any information about saldana. The biggest information is that he is not strictly a member of the imperium. IMO, he is a mutant.

As far as his role goes, he does get visions at night, but they are sometimes cloudy and there is no way to be sure when they are going to be about. The only thing I know for sure about his power is that the visions are frequent and involuntary.

[kingfc22]

As far as his role goes, he does get visions at night, but they are sometimes cloudy and there is no way to be sure what they are going to be about. The only thing I know for sure about his power is that the visions are frequent and involuntary.


This is what I meant to say. He gets these visions at night so my post saying "when" is incorrect.

[st.cronin]

Well, I would have happily voted to chop HIS head off had I known that.

[twothree]

Further examinination around the corpse of twothree reveals two cryptic words scribbled in dried blood...

vote tanglewood

;)

[BrianD]

Well now isn't that interesting.

[kingfc22]

Sorry guys. I really feel like I lost the game for us by not being here this afternoon. :(

[Greyroofoo]

If Mustang is to be believed, and I believe he is to be believed. Swaggs will try to convert someone tonight or tomorrow.

Saldana might be able to "see" this encounter.

So it is kind of a dilemma on whether to kill Saldana just yet. I say we lynch Swaggs once, saldana, and then Swaggs again.

[st.cronin]

Sorry guys. I really feel like I lost the game for us by not being here this afternoon. :(

I don't think the game is lost. And either way, it's definitely not your fault. I'm really surprised people were tempted to vote for Mustang. I could have seen voting for almost anybody else.

[BrianD]

Sorry guys. I really feel like I lost the game for us by not being here this afternoon. :(

That is alright, I felt the same way after I wasn't around to save Bullet.

I will say this shines an interesting light on those that voted for Mustang today.

[BrianD]

If Mustang is to be believed, and I believe he is to be believed. Swaggs will try to convert someone tonight or tomorrow.

Saldana might be able to "see" this encounter.

So it is kind of a dilemma on whether to kill Saldana just yet. I say we lynch Swaggs once, saldana, and then Swaggs again.

I think that depends on what happens tonight. If nobody gets killed, we should be able to double-tap Swaggs and then try to figure out who he converted.

[Greyroofoo]

good point

[kingfc22]

Here is where I'm at right now.


Fairly High Trust:
Greyroofoo - converted Mustang. Good enough for me
Brian
St. Cronin

Unsure on:
Chief Rum
GE
Fouts

Chaos:
Swaggs

Likely Mutant:
Saldana
Alan

[st.cronin]

I would be stunned if both Sal and Al turned out to be mutants. I think Al is probably ok.

[kingfc22]

Thinking about this a little more, the thing that confuses me the most is that grey converted mustang, but Alan has the same ability. Maybe it is likely that we have 2 of these roles in the game on the side of the Emperor to offset Swaggs ability to convert.

The reason I put Alan in my mutant side of the list is because I couldn't think of a way for him and grey for both to be good.

[Greyroofoo]

personally I'm having a hard time deciding on who to visit tonight.
I want to visit Swaggs, but I'm already positive he's chaos and I doubt it will change the mind of those who doubt me.

[Swaggs]

Wow... well played, guys. Looks like I got railroaded.

Catching up now.

[Swaggs]

Well, I obviously made a very big mistake by not revealing earlier today, but I wanted to protect people as well as I could.

I am cursed and as such, am abnormal, but I am loyal to the emperor. The counter to this is that I cannot be lynched, period. If I am lynched, nothing will happen, at all. I can be killed by a night action (I feel reasonably decent about revealing that now, with bullet and mustang dead). Each night, I have the ability to research the history of my gene-line to try and figure out how to overcome the curse.

Without giving away my PMs, here is what I have been up to:
Night 1: I was told that it was very important that Alan T survive this "troubling time." Without him, my chances for survival would become very small.
Night 2: I learned that there was an artifact that had been passed down through many generations. And it is currently owned by a high ranking council member.
Night 3: I learned that, it is believed that the family of Fouts once possed a spear that had, in the past, prevented my ancestors from acting upon the curse.
Night 4: It seems that, as I age, I will develop (paraphrasing here) uncontrollable vampire-like tendencies.

I think there is still more to be learned and king is welcome to check me to verify my capabilities. I am not sure how Mustang knew about the curse, but I suspect he is in a group with one of the many seers. I am guessing that there were two or three chaos remaining and he was one of them. I think the conversion thing was a ploy to buy more time and get us to re-consider the few people that have been cleared.

I understand that I look bad and this is a lot to swallow. I wish I would have revealed before Mustang swung things onto me. I hope I am not lynched tomorrow because it will just delay things and help the chaos gain numbers. If I am killed tonight, I believe we can trust Fouts and Alan T, as my "research" has indicated that they are helpful and loyal to the emperor.

Keep in mind that Mustang kept quiet and didn't accuse me of anything all day long until after we learned that he had tried to kill Alan AND it looked like he was going to be lynched. Not to mention he is a freakin' ghost now--how normal is that? ;)

[Fouts]

You have got to be kidding me. I have the least amount of info out of all of us and *I* am deciding the tie breakers??? Give me a break.

[kingfc22]

You have got to be kidding me. I have the least amount of info out of all of us and *I* am deciding the tie breakers??? Give me a break.

:eek::eek::eek:

[Fouts]

:eek::eek::eek:

My post was directed at tanglewood. He gives everyone else ways of finding out info, but I decide who dies.

However, I still think Mustang was bad.

[Chief Rum]

Wow, okay, not sure where to go with that story from Swaggs. I still believe Mustang was a converted Chaos (which somehow relates to how he ends up a ghost), mostly because there's too much evidence suggesting grey is good, thus my belief in what he proposed about Mustang.

Could Mustang have been confused about Swaggs? Not sure. Swaggs' story seems like entirely too much to be just a fake reveal, but there is probably at least some truth to it anyway. I don't know that any of what he put up excludes him from being Chaos. I do wish he had said something before Mustang came out.

I think if I were here to hear all testimony, I could make a more educated vote here. Unfortunately, I will not be. It is Tuesday, and my usual Tuesday schedule--working all day at both of my jobs--applies. This will be my last post until well after the vote.

I am putting in a vote now, but I know it won't count. I just want to be on the record as having voted.

VOTE SWAGGS

I look forward to reading what transpires when I get home tonight,

[Fouts]

I won't be on much today, since I have classes. Not that it matters, I haven't a clue on whats going on. Maybe I'll get lucky and they killed me. I'll try to get a vote in later today.

[Mustang]

Keep in mind that Mustang kept quiet and didn't accuse me of anything all day long until after we learned that he had tried to kill Alan AND it looked like he was going to be lynched. Not to mention he is a freakin' ghost now--how normal is that? ;)

I was never on the board. That was verified and stated by someone a few pages back.


Of course nothing will happen the first night, I already said that nothing might happen the first night you are killed so, you just confirmed part of what I was saying that, if lynched, either you wouldn't be killed and it would take a second night OR you would be killed and then possess someone and live on.

[Alan T]

King explain something to me...

If your power lets you know someone is a mutant (ie: Saldana), then why do you suspect I am a mutant after you already scanned me? Is this just guilt by association?

For whatever its worth, for almost the entire game I have acknowledged that Saldana was possibly a mutant, so if he is one, its not a huge suprise to me. My point up until we found Mustang was that with 2+ chaos out there we should focus on them more.

Now that we might be down to one chaos, that changes in my mind, and rooting out the mutants is probably in our best interest...

I think mustang knew a little too much about Swaggs's abilities to think Swaggs' role reveal was real. Explain to me how a chaos person would know Swaggs won't die when lynched if Swaggs is a good guy? I guess the biggest question would be if Swaggs really can keep converting people. If so, then I don't understand why not continue trying (like the spawn game you were often better off just trying to convert someone), since their assassination attempts don't seem too sturdy (failing twice)...

Something here just doesn't add up for me... I guess today's big question is if we go after Swaggs assuming it will be lynch #1 of 2, or do we go after Saldana being a mutant and see if we can validate King's story/role more.

[saldana]

Okay. Finally caught up. Lats night I investigated saldana because something just didn't seem right. To my pleasent surprise I was RIGHT.

My investigation was very hard last night. It took me a lot of sources to get any information about saldana. The biggest information is that he is not strictly a member of the imperium. IMO, he is a mutant.

As far as his role goes, he does get visions at night, but they are sometimes cloudy and there is no way to be sure when they are going to be about. The only thing I know for sure about his power is that the visions are frequent and involuntary.

wow king, that is indeed big news....its a good thing you revealed that about me, otherwise no one would have ever known that.:rolleyes:



you are correct, i am not part of the imperium. the navigators guild operates independantly, but that does not mean i am against you by any means. in fact, the guild has one simply objective, and that is stability throughout the galaxy.

[saldana]

dola...the post of mine is number 209....so kings big announcement is only about 1900 posts late.

i have admitted that i am not a member of the imperium, and i have admitted that i am a psyker...all members of the guild are, its how we are able to perform our jobs....check wikipedia if you dont believe me. none of this makes me a mutant for the purposes of this game.

[Swaggs]

Wow, okay, not sure where to go with that story from Swaggs. I still believe Mustang was a converted Chaos (which somehow relates to how he ends up a ghost), mostly because there's too much evidence suggesting grey is good, thus my belief in what he proposed about Mustang.

Could Mustang have been confused about Swaggs? Not sure. Swaggs' story seems like entirely too much to be just a fake reveal, but there is probably at least some truth to it anyway. I don't know that any of what he put up excludes him from being Chaos. I do wish he had said something before Mustang came out.

I think if I were here to hear all testimony, I could make a more educated vote here. Unfortunately, I will not be. It is Tuesday, and my usual Tuesday schedule--working all day at both of my jobs--applies. This will be my last post until well after the vote.

I am putting in a vote now, but I know it won't count. I just want to be on the record as having voted.

VOTE SWAGGS

I look forward to reading what transpires when I get home tonight,

Unfortunate, but understandable.

Voting for me will do nothing but give the bad guys a free day without a chance for a lynching.

[Swaggs]

I think mustang knew a little too much about Swaggs's abilities to think Swaggs' role reveal was real. Explain to me how a chaos person would know Swaggs won't die when lynched if Swaggs is a good guy? I guess the biggest question would be if Swaggs really can keep converting people. If so, then I don't understand why not continue trying (like the spawn game you were often better off just trying to convert someone), since their assassination attempts don't seem too sturdy (failing twice)...


King knew that Brian would have a counterstrike if attacked. There are three seers. Why is it so far fetched to believe that Mustang would know that I cannot die during the day?

I hope people will consider the fact that Mustang was spotted trying to kill someone last night, the fact that he turned on me when he got into danger with the voting, and the fact that he turned into a freaking ghost, rather than dying and revealing his true form, and, I think the biggest thing, is that he brought up the point of conversions. Bringing conversions into the picture, to me, appears to be an attempt to get us to waste time re-examining things we have already examined, buying them enough time to get numbers a little more in their favor.

[Swaggs]

I'm out until lunchtime.

Just thinking things over, if everything Mustang has accused me of is true, then I have the ability to kill twice per night (yet haven't), the ability to convert people, and I cannot be killed. Does that make sense at all?

[Alan T]

Not much in this game makes sense so far.

[tanglewood]

You once more awake and are greeted by screams. It seems one of the servants found the body of AlanT, gruesomely half devoured and impaled upon one of the flag poles hanging from the walls. He is a sorry sight. However, something even more startling becomes apparent when you enter the chamber for the daily session. It seems that Blade, the lord Commander Militant, is once again with you. How can this be? The day ahead will ceratinly not be uneventful one feels.

[BrianD]

I'm going to withhold judgement until the results of the night actions become available. Swaggs story sounds good, but I can't discount Grey sticking up for Mustang. If Swaggs says that conversion to Chaos can't happen, then I have to believe Grey even more about Mustang.

[BrianD]

Ok, who brough Blade back?

[Alan T]

lol

well good luck people who actually are on my team.

Everyone else I hope you die in a fire!

[BrianD]

lol

well good luck people who actually are on my team.

Everyone else I hope you die in a fire!

Sorry to see you go. I think we had a chance to kick a little tail in this game, but couldn't quite get on the same page. We'll have to talk after and see what went wrong.

[BrianD]

I see dead people. :)

[BrianD]

I see dead people. :)

[BrianD]

Oops, silly board hiccup.

[Abe Sargent]

I cc: Dead People

[Greyroofoo]

i visited fouts last night because i was unsure whether he was chaos or just an overzealous villager.

It turns out the latter is true. I hope this means he'll trust me now and we can focus on getting rid of the bad guys.

vote swaggs

[BrianD]

i visited fouts last night because i was unsure whether he was chaos or just an overzealous villager.

It turns out the latter is true. I hope this means he'll trust me now and we can focus on getting rid of the bad guys.

vote swaggs

Thank you. I was figuring he was an overzealous villager, but I just wasn't sure. I'll join you and

Vote Swaggs

[st.cronin]

VOTE SWAGGS

I want to know why Blade is back in game, though.

[Swaggs]

So, last night I converted someone and killed Alan, right? Alan, who is one of the guys I said could help me and stood up for a few days ago.

Oh well... there have been some very good moves this game and I will have some respect for the bad guys if you guys actually vote for me everyday, while they kill people at night.

Since Alan is dead, my only hope is that Fouts can somehow verify that I am cursed, but I am not holding my breath.

I'll go ahead and vote now, since I don't figure there will be much going on for me today.

Vote Greyroofoo

I don't know for sure that he is bad, but he sure has been pulling some strings the past few days, and since we now know, for certain, that Alan was a loyal human, their redundant roles don't pass the smell test for me.

[Greyroofoo]

So, last night I converted someone and killed Alan, right? Alan, who is one of the guys I said could help me and stood up for a few days ago.

Oh well... there have been some very good moves this game and I will have some respect for the bad guys if you guys actually vote for me everyday, while they kill people at night.

Since Alan is dead, my only hope is that Fouts can somehow verify that I am cursed, but I am not holding my breath.

I'll go ahead and vote now, since I don't figure there will be much going on for me today.

Vote Greyroofoo

I don't know for sure that he is bad, but he sure has been pulling some strings the past few days, and since we now know, for certain, that Alan was a loyal human, their redundant roles don't pass the smell test for me.

i for one want to hear what fouts posts too

[Swaggs]

Man, I still can't believe I got set up so well in such a short period of time and, after yesterday, people believe Mustang so much.

I am impressed.

[BrianD]

Man, I still can't believe I got set up so well in such a short period of time and, after yesterday, people believe Mustang so much.

I am impressed.

Actually, it was people believing Grey so much.

[Swaggs]

Actually, it was people believing Grey so much.

Has he viewed me yet?

[Swaggs]

BTW, no hard feelings guys.

I would probably vote for me with the way things are layed out right now. It just stinks that it will take you guys two straight days of it before realizing you got duped.

[saldana]

ok, i am still alive...i dont remember ever playing a game of ww where i was unhappy about that...

fouts, brianD, anything notable to report?

[Blade6119]

Well hello ladies :)

[saldana]

Well hello ladies :)

care to explain your ubiquitous return to our little party.

[Lorena]

Wow, what a turn of events; I'm a little glad I didn't participate or I would have gone senile by now :)

[saldana]

dola, i would love to hear the opinions of someone that has been on the sidelines...your perspective should be totally unique. (and i mean that with all sincerety, not taking a pot shot or anything)

[Blade6119]

care to explain your ubiquitous return to our little party.
I could, but you would prob. just call me a liar repeatedly :mad:

[Blade6119]

;)

[saldana]

I could, but you would prob. just call me a liar repeatedly :mad:


apparently, you have all the memories of the last iteration of blade.

[saldana]

dola, i thought grudges were not transportable from one incarnation to the next. ??

[Blade6119]

Ive got classes for the next 3-4 hours, and will need time to really read, not skim like when i was dead, the last 20 or so pages...i will say this much:

How is grey soo trusted? He didnt get past my guards because he was good, as some reasoned, he got past because his position in our government is 2nd only to the emporer. GE is still alive, which doesnt make sense. They kill fozzie, the mutant hunter, but leave the one guy who can hunt them? I call BS. I might be missing some key evidence, but right now im still stunned grey is alive and trusted. The fact GE is alive in my mind casts a terrible light on grey, not some good one. Can anyone tell me why grey isnt dead, and further why he is becoming trusted(i saw this in the reasoning for why people were voting swaggs, which i have no idea about, havent read that far)

[Blade6119]

dola, i thought grudges were not transportable from one incarnation to the next. ??
Do you not see the smiley in the next post? It was a joke, and alan's death has taken you off my radar, for now...

[saldana]

Do you not see the smiley in the next post? It was a joke, and alan's death has taken you off my radar, for now...

i knew that...i was dicking with you the whole time...i would have been more surprised if you werent pisses.


as far as grey goes, he vouched for bullet, who came up clean....and as far as i am concerned, he is #1 on my suspect list....i am just waiting to vote until i hear from fouts and brian about what happened to them last night, since i saw both of them involved with someone else....one of whom i do know, the other i dont.

[Swaggs]

What a cruel irony...

Blade returns from the dead and is making sense to me, but it is probably going to fall upon deaf ears.

[Blade6119]

i knew that...i was dicking with you the whole time...i would have been more surprised if you werent pisses.


as far as grey goes, he vouched for bullet, who came up clean....and as far as i am concerned, he is #1 on my suspect list....i am just waiting to vote until i hear from fouts and brian about what happened to them last night, since i saw both of them involved with someone else....one of whom i do know, the other i dont.
I dont know what happened to mustang, and i have to go, but yesterday before he died, he and grey were playing off each other. They were def. setting each other up to make comments and to look good. It says hes a ghost, which i dont fully understand yet(though i think i have an idea), but if it means hes bad i think that casts a bad light on grey as well. Hopefully someone can present the cases on everyone while im gone, but from what ive read grey is by far the best target today.

[Swaggs]

Blade, do you have a vote today?

[Blade6119]

What a cruel irony...

Blade returns from the dead and is making sense to me, but it is probably going to fall upon deaf ears.

I wont be around much today, so i cant be of too much help. I just see more of an argument against him then you, tough i havent read everything so maybe im missing ket evidence.

I trust 1 person entirely, and i thank them for helping me come back to life. Everyone else is going to be analyzed pretty heavily later today.

I really have to go, someone please help me catch up a bit with a summary or something. THANKS!! :eek:

[Blade6119]

Blade, do you have a vote today?

Yes, i am back to my full self. I can vote, protect, the whole shebang. I wont vote until later when im better informed, but wanted to get this in before the bandwagon started

[Swaggs]

Yes, i am back to my full self. I can vote, protect, the whole shebang. I wont vote until later when im better informed, but wanted to get this in before the bandwagon started

Well, I fear the bandwagon has already taken off, but I am hoping that maybe Fouts will help me out a bit, and now maybe you can see some of the bigger picture and help others see it, too.

[saldana]

blade, i will try to get a summary type post up for you around 7 eastern.

[saldana]

dola, i am out for work, be back on between 6 and 7

[Swaggs]

Alright fellas... I'm out for awhile.

Should be back before the deadline.

[BrianD]

as far as grey goes, he vouched for bullet, who came up clean....and as far as i am concerned, he is #1 on my suspect list....i am just waiting to vote until i hear from fouts and brian about what happened to them last night, since i saw both of them involved with someone else....one of whom i do know, the other i dont.

Nothing happened to me last night. If anyone viewed me, it must have been remotely. I didn't see anyone, talk to anyone, or go anywhere.

Mustang, were you watching me sleep again? We've talked about that. :)

[Abe Sargent]

An hour during the day without a post? Wow

[Mustang]

http://www.tombraider4u.com/pictures/casper_casper-pictures-04_ghost.jpg

[BrianD]

An hour during the day without a post? Wow

There seem to be a bunch of people not around today. Kind of sad.

[path12]

Always people around when I check in. Of course they're all dead, but still......

[Fouts]

Grey visited me last night to verify I'm loyal. It appeared he left satisfied. It convinces him that I'm non-choas, but 'm not sure how that makes him non-chaos. I can see how people he visits are convinced though.

Swaggs, what am I supposed to be helping with?

[BrianD]

Grey visited me last night to verify I'm loyal. It appeared he left satisfied. It convinces him that I'm non-choas, but 'm not sure how that makes him non-chaos. I can see how people he visits are convinced though.

Swaggs, what am I supposed to be helping with?

You didn't get the feeling that you'd be in big trouble if you weren't Chaos? Not that the description of your encounter would say that specifically, but you didn't feel that way?

[Fouts]

Yeah, he seed a bit intimidating, but nothing I saw confirms him to be non-chaos.

[bulletsponge]

is Blade a zombie or some other undead?

[Fouts]

Well I reread Swaggs story, and I don't know anything about a family spear. Sorry. You said night 4 that you are turning into a vampire, which sounds bad for us.

I'm afraid the only two targets we have are swaggs and saldana. Everyone is convinced of Swaggs' guilt, but nobody will scan him.

[Fouts]

Brian, answer this; Why has there been no attempt on Grey, but 2 attempts on Alan?

[BrianD]

Yeah, he seed a bit intimidating, but nothing I saw confirms him to be non-chaos.

Wow, you are a tough critic (though possibly smarter than the rest of us).

Grey got past the bodyguard to interrogate GE, he left me feeling that the only reason I was alive was that I was loyal, he cleared Bullet before we found out he was loyal, and he intimidated you with his interrogation.

About the only thing we can't confirm was his statement that he converted Mustang. All of that adds up to trust for me.

[BrianD]

Brian, answer this; Why has there been no attempt on Grey, but 2 attempts on Alan?

That is a good question. I would guess it is because there have been so many people who refuse to believe Grey and the Chaos don't want to take that lynching option away from us, but it could be that he is safe because he is Chaos.

I just think that if we are going to have any chance at all, we have to get some clues as to who is good and who is bad. We can't be guessing randomly through the whole game, so I'm taking Grey's interrogation as being one of those clues. I was in the camp who believed both Grey and Alan. In fact, I was going to vote for you yesterday until the big reveals came out. Now I put you at the same level of trust that I give to Grey. My list of untrusted is getting smaller and smaller.

[Greyroofoo]

This is my offical sucking up to Blade post. I dunno how he was brought back, by who, or for what purpose.

I just know that blade is my only hope for survival tonight.

[Fouts]

That is a good question. I would guess it is because there have been so many people who refuse to believe Grey and the Chaos don't want to take that lynching option away from us, but it could be that he is safe because he is Chaos.

I just think that if we are going to have any chance at all, we have to get some clues as to who is good and who is bad. We can't be guessing randomly through the whole game, so I'm taking Grey's interrogation as being one of those clues. I was in the camp who believed both Grey and Alan. In fact, I was going to vote for you yesterday until the big reveals came out. Now I put you at the same level of trust that I give to Grey. My list of untrusted is getting smaller and smaller.

So you are buying that Mustang was converted? Hard pill for me to swallow.

I don't like Swaggs story, but he hasn't been scanned. King says saldana is a mutant, which is what I thought all along.

vote saldana

[Fouts]

I guess I don't see the game balance where twothree, alan, grey, and king are all human. Although, all of this has only brought us one confirmed chaos kill. We got a crap load of seers, but most of them suck.

[Greyroofoo]

The Paternoval Envoy of the Navigators is the elected representative of the Navigator's guild and therefore is de facto in charge of intra-Imperium commerce and trade. <B>Whilst not technically under the Imperium's control</B>, the Navigator's guild and the Imperium generally have the same goals at heart, namely stability, so have established a working relationship, the Paternoval Envoy being the liason officer.

aren't the bolded words basically king's reasoning?

[Fouts]

Mustang, why won't you give us more chaos members. The rules say that you guys can freely PM with each other.

[BrianD]

So you are buying that Mustang was converted? Hard pill for me to swallow.

I don't like Swaggs story, but he hasn't been scanned. King says saldana is a mutant, which is what I thought all along.

vote saldana

Normally I wouldn't, but I've been trusting Grey for this whole game, and it would seem silly to stop the trust now. Honestly, he has been pretty much dictating my game-play since he viewed me. He was the one thing I thought I "knew" for sure. If it turns out that he was playing me, I'll lynch him first in every other game I see him in.

A vote for Saldana is not a bad thing since the mutants need to go too. I'd like to get in one of the two votes needed for Swaggs first, but I won't be sad if I get outvoted and Saldana goes. I am a little curious what he thinks he saw me do last night (or what he thinks was done to me), but he might just be setting me up for something.

[Fouts]

I dont know what happened to mustang, and i have to go, but yesterday before he died, he and grey were playing off each other. They were def. setting each other up to make comments and to look good. It says hes a ghost, which i dont fully understand yet(though i think i have an idea), but if it means hes bad i think that casts a bad light on grey as well. Hopefully someone can present the cases on everyone while im gone, but from what ive read grey is by far the best target today.

I am right with you blade. It looked setup to me, too, but without proof that Mustang was chaos when he died it will be hard to vote for him. I think its crappy of Tangle to not give us Mustangs affiliation.

[BrianD]

I guess I don't see the game balance where twothree, alan, grey, and king are all human. Although, all of this has only brought us one confirmed chaos kill. We got a crap load of seers, but most of them suck.

I would say 4 crappy seers balances well with 1 good one. :)

I'm not sure they are that crappy though. They all give us some information, and we should be able to piece them together. Twothree gave us Chaos/non-Chaos. King gives us their roles. Alan and Grey seemed to give us loyal/non-loyal, but that seems a little odd and redundant.

If we put viewings of twothree together with either Grey or Alan, we should get normal/abnormal and loyal/non-loyal. Normal+anything is human, abnormal+loyal=mutant, abnormal=non-loyal=chaos. Maybe Alan and Grey had the same role so we could be sure to match some things up before they both died...though it would be nice to double up on twothree then too.

I'm not sure what to say about Saldana since his "visions" were totally unhelpful until the Mustang situation.

[BrianD]

I am right with you blade. It looked setup to me, too, but without proof that Mustang was chaos when he died it will be hard to vote for him. I think its crappy of Tangle to not give us Mustangs affiliation.

Too bad we didn't get King's view of him. It would have been nice to know that he would go poof before we killed him.

[Fouts]

I would say 4 crappy seers balances well with 1 good one. :)

I'm not sure they are that crappy though. They all give us some information, and we should be able to piece them together. Twothree gave us Chaos/non-Chaos. King gives us their roles. Alan and Grey seemed to give us loyal/non-loyal, but that seems a little odd and redundant.

If we put viewings of twothree together with either Grey or Alan, we should get normal/abnormal and loyal/non-loyal. Normal+anything is human, abnormal+loyal=mutant, abnormal=non-loyal=chaos. Maybe Alan and Grey had the same role so we could be sure to match some things up before they both died...though it would be nice to double up on twothree then too.

I'm not sure what to say about Saldana since his "visions" were totally unhelpful until the Mustang situation.

Good post, and what you say about the seers matching up makes alot of sense. Alan and Grey are the only copies of each other? Hmm.

[BrianD]

Good post, and what you say about the seers matching up makes alot of sense. Alan and Grey are the only copies of each other? Hmm.

The only ones that we know about at least. I suppose there could be others. I'm really curious who is able to raise the dead. Any thoughts on that one? Any thoughts on the goodness/badness of Blade? I'd hate to just kill him again right away, but who knows why he was raised?

[Blade6119]

The only ones that we know about at least. I suppose there could be others. I'm really curious who is able to raise the dead. Any thoughts on that one? Any thoughts on the goodness/badness of Blade? I'd hate to just kill him again right away, but who knows why he was raised?
Thank you...i was waiting for someone to step in a defend grey, as well as cast doubt on me. You have filled both roles wonderfully. I was not raised from the dead, i am not an undead like bullet suggested. I am back in a different form, yes, but all this new form does is allow me to continue my mission.

Fouts, you wont vote for grey, but will you vote for brian?

[Fouts]

Ive got classes for the next 3-4 hours, and will need time to really read, not skim like when i was dead, the last 20 or so pages...i will say this much:

How is grey soo trusted? He didnt get past my guards because he was good, as some reasoned, he got past because his position in our government is 2nd only to the emporer. GE is still alive, which doesnt make sense. They kill fozzie, the mutant hunter, but leave the one guy who can hunt them? I call BS. I might be missing some key evidence, but right now im still stunned grey is alive and trusted. The fact GE is alive in my mind casts a terrible light on grey, not some good one. Can anyone tell me why grey isnt dead, and further why he is becoming trusted(i saw this in the reasoning for why people were voting swaggs, which i have no idea about, havent read that far)

Forgot to reply to this one.

I have been untrusting of Grey for quite awhile, but nobody will go with me on it. I wanted to lynch Grey during the Bullet/St.Cronin tie, but couldn't get the votes and I had to choose Bullet over St.Cronin. Grey just has a lot of info for somebody checking for loyal/non-loyal. Grey worked hard to keep Bullet alive, but how could he know Bullet wasn't a mutant? Although, Grey had zero info on St.Cronin, other than path locked him up every night, but that is ok info to lynch cronin? I don't buy it, Grey knows too much.

It looks like they will lynch Swaggs twice, because they have the backing. I might have had a problem with this, but Swaggs hasn't explained how Mustang knows that he needs to be killed twice.

[BrianD]

Thank you...i was waiting for someone to step in a defend grey, as well as cast doubt on me. You have filled both roles wonderfully. I was not raised from the dead, i am not an undead like bullet suggested. I am back in a different form, yes, but all this new form does is allow me to continue my mission.

Fouts, you wont vote for grey, but will you vote for brian?

Chill dude, I didn't say you were bad, I'm just saying you are an unknown. I have no intentions to vote for you until we learn more about you. I would really love for someone to admit to helping you come back, but you aren't on my target short-list.

[BrianD]

Forgot to reply to this one.

I have been untrusting of Grey for quite awhile, but nobody will go with me on it. I wanted to lynch Grey during the Bullet/St.Cronin tie, but couldn't get the votes and I had to choose Bullet over St.Cronin. Grey just has a lot of info for somebody checking for loyal/non-loyal. Grey worked hard to keep Bullet alive, but how could he know Bullet wasn't a mutant? Although, Grey had zero info on St.Cronin, other than path locked him up every night, but that is ok info to lynch cronin? I don't buy it, Grey knows too much.

It looks like they will lynch Swaggs twice, because they have the backing. I might have had a problem with this, but Swaggs hasn't explained how Mustang knows that he needs to be killed twice.

I'm curious why you think Grey viewed you and then told the world of your loyalty. Do you think he was just trying to gain your trust?

[Blade6119]

Forgot to reply to this one.

I have been untrusting of Grey for quite awhile, but nobody will go with me on it. I wanted to lynch Grey during the Bullet/St.Cronin tie, but couldn't get the votes and I had to choose Bullet over St.Cronin. Grey just has a lot of info for somebody checking for loyal/non-loyal. Grey worked hard to keep Bullet alive, but how could he know Bullet wasn't a mutant? Although, Grey had zero info on St.Cronin, other than path locked him up every night, but that is ok info to lynch cronin? I don't buy it, Grey knows too much.

It looks like they will lynch Swaggs twice, because they have the backing. I might have had a problem with this, but Swaggs hasn't explained how Mustang knows that he needs to be killed twice.
The 2nd day, the day i died, grey confirmed my story and claimed they discussed my alignment as being good. He then aids in getting my lynched. So far, besides trying to save the assasin(which can be a good or bad power if used wrong) he has done everything in his power to lead us down the wrong path. The fact as well that somehow his trusted group, which includes the biggest threat to the chaos, isnt getting killed off should raise eyebrows.

Saldana has said hes with me, as is swaggs...if you join, we have a solid voting block on grey

[kingfc22]

Okay. I have a 30 minute break right now before I have to get back to work.

I investigated GE last night because he hadn't given us any new info lately and I thought he might be sandbagging. He is part of the imperium and can spot a Chaos member from a mile away.

[Fouts]

Thank you...i was waiting for someone to step in a defend grey, as well as cast doubt on me. You have filled both roles wonderfully. I was not raised from the dead, i am not an undead like bullet suggested. I am back in a different form, yes, but all this new form does is allow me to continue my mission.

Fouts, you wont vote for grey, but will you vote for brian?

I have serious doubt about grey, but I'm not sure where you are coming from. What role do you think Brian has? Keep in mind, Anxiety and Mustang were chaos. How many chaos can there be?

[Blade6119]

Okay. I have a 30 minute break right now before I have to get back to work.

I investigated GE last night because he hadn't given us any new info lately and I thought he might be sandbagging. He is part of the imperium and can spot a Chaos member from a mile away.

Yet hasnt.....right now grey, brian, king, and GE are my suspect list....gotta go work #s, one second

[BrianD]

Chill dude, I didn't say you were bad, I'm just saying you are an unknown. I have no intentions to vote for you until we learn more about you. I would really love for someone to admit to helping you come back, but you aren't on my target short-list.

And for the record, I didn't vote for you the first time.

[Blade6119]

I have serious doubt about grey, but I'm not sure where you are coming from. What role do you think Brian has? Keep in mind, Anxiety and Mustang were chaos. How many chaos can there be?

We dont know mustang was chaos, we just assume. All 4 primarch have different roles and powers, and mustangs very well may have been just this, that after his death he can still contribute at night. I only count anxiety as a bad guy. I need to review his posts, 1 sec

[Fouts]

I'm curious why you think Grey viewed you and then told the world of your loyalty. Do you think he was just trying to gain your trust?

Yes, that is what I think.

[Blade6119]

Chill dude, I didn't say you were bad, I'm just saying you are an unknown. I have no intentions to vote for you until we learn more about you. I would really love for someone to admit to helping you come back, but you aren't on my target short-list.

Id love if they didnt. They have my trust, and possibly my protection tonight if i think its a repeatable power(not likely, ill likely guard someone with higher value)...im have 4 days of suspicion all built up, bear with me for a bit

[BrianD]

Okay. I have a 30 minute break right now before I have to get back to work.

I investigated GE last night because he hadn't given us any new info lately and I thought he might be sandbagging. He is part of the imperium and can spot a Chaos member from a mile away.

That doesn't make sense, GE hasn't voted for a Chaos member yet.

[Fouts]

Yet hasnt.....right now grey, brian, king, and GE are my suspect list....gotta go work #s, one second

Dude, where were you 2 days ago. Oh wait, we killed you. :)

GE has been non-existent, so that might explain his not helping us. How many chaos do you think there are? We started with 18.

What about your return from death? Care to explain that?

[Blade6119]

And for the record, I didn't vote for you the first time.

I didnt accuse you of it...in regards to the first vote, the one who stood out to me(besides alan and saldana) was grey. He confirmed my story, then turned on me. It was a highly irregular move.

[BrianD]

The 2nd day, the day i died, grey confirmed my story and claimed they discussed my alignment as being good. He then aids in getting my lynched.

This is an interesting point, and scary if true. Didn't Grey interrogate GE on the first night? I've been through my own interrogation with him, and there was no actual communication. Fouts, I'm assuming you agree with this?

[Blade6119]

Dude, where were you 2 days ago. Oh wait, we killed you. :)

GE has been non-existent, so that might explain his not helping us. How many chaos do you think there are? We started with 18.

What about your return from death? Care to explain that?

If he wants to share, hes welcome to. When i revealed info, it got me killed...im not going to get him killed as well. If he wishes to share, ill support his claims. But i know who brought me back, how he did it, and when he ordered it.

[kingfc22]

I think it is almost too convienent that grey "converted" mustang and then "cleared" fouts last night. They may have been working together all along. If mustang knew his death would leave to ghost form from the beginning then it is a great move for grey to say he converted him.

[BrianD]

I think it is almost too convienent that grey "converted" mustang and then "cleared" fouts last night. They may have been working together all along. If mustang knew his death would leave to ghost form from the beginning then it is a great move for grey to say he converted him.

Who is "they", Grey and Mustang or Grey and Fouts?

[Blade6119]

King says saldana is a mutant, which is what I thought all along.

vote saldana

If true, this is a bad move...the mutants count in the villager ratio when calculating chaos win. Yes, they impede our total victory. But eliminating them also move the chaos closer to their victory. We should only kill muntants when we have rooted out the chaos and have enough ratio left to spend time gunning for total victory. But chaos should be our first and last objective with this lynch

[Fouts]

This is an interesting point, and scary if true. Didn't Grey interrogate GE on the first night? I've been through my own interrogation with him, and there was no actual communication. Fouts, I'm assuming you agree with this?

No communication at all. He was there only to determine my loyalty. I'm starting to think he is the Mutant Psyker.

[BrianD]

No communication at all. He was there only to determine my loyalty. I'm starting to think he is the Mutant Psyker.

So he can telepathically communicate with mutants and interrogate people? That seems like too much for one role.

[Fouts]

Alright blade, you have convinced me. If you are a once good guy, come back as bad guy, then call me a fool.

unvote saldana

vote greyroofoo

[kingfc22]

The only way I see grey as good is if he is a mutant. I don't think tangle would make alan and grey both regular good guys since they seemingly have the same ability.

[BrianD]

If true, this is a bad move...the mutants count in the villager ratio when calculating chaos win. Yes, they impede our total victory. But eliminating them also move the chaos closer to their victory. We should only kill muntants when we have rooted out the chaos and have enough ratio left to spend time gunning for total victory. But chaos should be our first and last objective with this lynch

I agree with this.

I'm out for dinner. Hopefully I'll be back before the deadline.

[Fouts]

So he can telepathically communicate with mutants and interrogate people? That seems like too much for one role.

The mutants are 'led' by a Mutant Psyker who has gained some rudimentary psychic powers. He can contact the other mutants in the game by sending out one PM per night. He does not know the idendity of the other mutants, but has a chance of discovering the identity of one every time he sends a night message. The other Mutants know the identity of the Mutant Psyker but not of each other.

Yeah, it is alot of power.

[kingfc22]

That's scary. All 3 of us pretty much posted the same theory at the same time.

[Blade6119]

Dude, where were you 2 days ago. Oh wait, we killed you. :)

GE has been non-existent, so that might explain his not helping us. How many chaos do you think there are? We started with 18.

I will say this. As it becomes more and more apparent that each and every one of us has a role, i think that increases the number of baddies. Counting the fact the mutants want the villagers to win, i think we have 4-5 bad guys(with 1, pos. 2 dead now). I also believe, despite their alignment, they hold the power of their roles most likely. So i dont doubt grey has been visiting people, or anxiety was scanning people. I just dont think they are doing it in good heart.

The fact GE is our best weapon against the chaos, and has helped us 0, voted for 0, found us 0, and is not dead yet worries me highly. The fact grey talked his way past my guard and both agreed had a conversation on night 1 worries me as well. A lot worries me, but thats WW

[kingfc22]

Okay, got to go back to work.

Going to Vote Greyroofoo.

I think he has been playing us the entire time.

[Fouts]

Blade, what is Swaggs then? Did you read his story about his reveal? Isn't it likely that Grey is the mutant leader and Swaggs is the chaos leader?

[Blade6119]

VOTE GREYROOFOO

It will be fitting if im wrong after how i got screwed on day 2, but i THINK this should be a pretty solid lynch

[st.cronin]

What exactly is the argument against grey? That he has the same role as Alan, and Alan was good, therefore grey is bad? I'm not sure I see it. This seems like villagers talking themselves into a crazy scenario when the simple scenario makes the most sense.

[Blade6119]

Blade, what is Swaggs then? Did you read his story about his reveal? Isn't it likely that Grey is the mutant leader and Swaggs is the chaos leader?

What confused me about his reveal, and one reason im leaning towards trust with him, is his reveal was loaded with evidence that gave us reasons to vote for him. What bad guy claims hes turning into a vampire?
Couple things stick out here. He said he was abnormal, said you were preventing him from becoming normal, and he said he was becoming a vampire. That screamed mutant to me, i dont know about you. The AlanT thing is was threw me for a loop, i havent figured out how alan fits in with the curse. I figured you were mentioned, as the head of adminisomething, you would be key in putting into law what the mutants want, and you dont want to do that. Everything to me points to mutant, except the alan thing which confuses me.

Now, he also mentioned mustang knowing about the curse, which i never saw. If anyone would link that for me, id appreciate it.

Here are the relevant sections of his reveal for reference in my mind:I am cursed and as such, am abnormal. The counter to this is that I cannot be lynched, period. If I am lynched, nothing will happen, at all.Each night, I have the ability to research the history of my gene-line to try and figure out how to overcome the curse.
Night 1: I was told that it was very important that Alan T survive this "troubling time." Without him, my chances for survival would become very small.
Night 3: I learned that, it is believed that the family of Fouts once possed a spear that had, in the past, prevented my ancestors from acting upon the curse.
Night 4: It seems that, as I age, I will develop (paraphrasing here) uncontrollable vampire-like tendencies.

[Fouts]

What confused me about his reveal, and one reason im leaning towards trust with him, is his reveal was loaded with evidence that gave us reasons to vote for him. What bad guy claims hes turning into a vampire?
Couple things stick out here. He said he was abnormal, said you were preventing him from becoming normal, and he said he was becoming a vampire. That screamed mutant to me, i dont know about you. The AlanT thing is was threw me for a loop, i havent figured out how alan fits in with the curse. I figured you were mentioned, as the head of adminisomething, you would be key in putting into law what the mutants want, and you dont want to do that. Everything to me points to mutant, except the alan thing which confuses me.

Now, he also mentioned mustang knowing about the curse, which i never saw. If anyone would link that for me, id appreciate it.

Here are the relevant sections of his reveal for reference in my mind:

Wow. You are not suspicious of a wacky reveal like that? I liken the role he has claimed to one like Lathum had a couple games back, when Lathum summoned me as the avatar, and ended up winning the game for himself.

If Swaggs isn't connected to Mustang, he needs to explain how Mustang knows that he has to be lynched twice. Mustang needs to provide us with his cohorts, because he is holding something back.

[Blade6119]

What exactly is the argument against grey? That he has the same role as Alan, and Alan was good, therefore grey is bad? I'm not sure I see it. This seems like villagers talking themselves into a crazy scenario when the simple scenario makes the most sense.

Grey supported my claims, then turned and got me lynched. he talked his way past our bodyguards to our biggest weapon against the chaos on night one, openly admitted to having a conversation(where others he has scanned have said no talking was involved), and the person he met, our biggest weapon, is suprisingly still alive and not suprisingly not helping us in any way.

[Fouts]

What exactly is the argument against grey? That he has the same role as Alan, and Alan was good, therefore grey is bad? I'm not sure I see it. This seems like villagers talking themselves into a crazy scenario when the simple scenario makes the most sense.

What do you suggest we do? I haven't trusted Grey since the bullet lynch.

[Blade6119]

Wow. You are not suspicious of a wacky reveal like that? I liken the role he has claimed to one like Lathum had a couple games back, when Lathum summoned me as the avatar, and ended up winning the game for himself.

If Swaggs isn't connected to Mustang, he needs to explain how Mustang knows that he has to be lynched twice. Mustang needs to provide us with his cohorts, because he is holding something back.

Mustang cant speak until tonight, and then i would like him to tell us a bit more. But i got the strong vibes swaggs was a mutant, and as such has reason to try and hide information. But if he were chaos, if you were, would you tell people you were turning into a un-controllable vampire? That seems like its begging to be lynched. If i was bad, id do what grey is doing, going about his day acting normal as can be(oh, and killing off every seer who can verify his role, except for two people he scanned, king and GE(he scan king, im not sure))...anywho, i figured he was telling us hes a mutant, and therefore not our best target

[st.cronin]

What do you suggest we do? I haven't trusted Grey since the bullet lynch.

Mustang hasn't been proven WRONG yet, has he? Why are we getting tricky with this? Mustang's story made sense, and it matched up what we knew to have happened at night.

I am somewhat suspicious of Blade. I would like somebody to step forward and admit that they raised Blade - except my best guess is that it was in fact Swaggs.

[Fouts]

Mustang hasn't been proven WRONG yet, has he? Why are we getting tricky with this? Mustang's story made sense, and it matched up what we knew to have happened at night.

I am somewhat suspicious of Blade. I would like somebody to step forward and admit that they raised Blade - except my best guess is that it was in fact Swaggs.

Swaggs raising blade worries me. What posted role can bring back the dead?

[Blade6119]

Grey came to me last night and we discussed Blade. I do not know why he came to me. He told me Blade was not chaos and I have every reason to believe him. Blade may be human or he may be a mutant, but he is not chaos.

This is key...he says they had a talk, and not only that they had it about me. There was no grey saying GE is loyal to the emporer, none of that. It was highly odd

This comment was before he voted for me and accused me of lying about my role...interesting again:
personally i think this is a huge case of villagers trying to execute villagers.

And both of their inital responses about the night 1 meeting:
Grey and I did meet last night. He came into my quaters and we had a heart to heart discussion about Blade. We both came to the conclussion that Blade is not chaos. I was prepard to kill Blade on the spot like I did Daddy Torgo, but it would be a mistake.

sorry, I was reading through the last 5 pages.

<seriousness>Blade speaks truth.</seriousness>

<joking>GE wanted to show me his copy of FOF 40k :)</joking>

[st.cronin]

Swaggs raising blade worries me. What posted role can bring back the dead?

I would rather not lynch Blade until we know this for sure. I think the safest bet is to stick with Swaggs. Possibly we will know more about Blade tomorrow. If nobody admits to raising him, then surely it must have been Swaggs, right?

[Fouts]

Blade will have his vengeance.

[Blade6119]

dola:
Grey came to me last night and we discussed Blade. I do not know why he came to me. He told me Blade was not chaos and I have every reason to believe him. Blade may be human or he may be a mutant, but he is not chaos.
So grey tells GE im not a chaos, then calls me a liar and votes for me/encourages others to? Obviously its a bald faced lie, question is what reason do they have to lie?

[st.cronin]

The problem is if Grey was chaos, why would he even get involved in that pissing match? Why would he pick a side? Why wouldn't he just say, "I visited GE. GE is not chaos." Or something like that. That he picked a side tells me he's a misguided villager, not a chaos.

[Blade6119]

Blade will have his vengeance.

If i wanted vengeance i would be after saldana. He is the total reason i got lynched, and the reason i didnt get to finish baiting GE and grey on day 2. But alan's death has earned saldana trust.

[Fouts]

I would rather not lynch Blade until we know this for sure. I think the safest bet is to stick with Swaggs. Possibly we will know more about Blade tomorrow. If nobody admits to raising him, then surely it must have been Swaggs, right?

So are we to believe that Swaggs killed Alan, and raised blade?

[Blade6119]

What exactly is the argument against grey? That he has the same role as Alan, and Alan was good, therefore grey is bad? I'm not sure I see it. This seems like villagers talking themselves into a crazy scenario when the simple scenario makes the most sense.

You mean like how on day 2 my crazy bodyguard scenario made no sense so it had to be false? Ya, simple scenario is always the right way to go :rolleyes:

[Blade6119]

So are we to believe that Swaggs killed Alan, and raised blade?

lol, if you do your stupid

[st.cronin]

So are we to believe that Swaggs killed Alan, and raised blade?

Or perhaps there is another chaos out there - or even a human assasin, who went after Alan last night.

[Blade6119]

dola, stupid is a harsh word...more like truth-challenged

[st.cronin]

lol, if you do your stupid

Ok, tell us who raised you then.

[Blade6119]

Ok, tell us who raised you then.

He can tell you if he chooses. It shouldnt be too tough to guess considering most players have claimed roles. I will not say until i have given him time to do so. Its his role, his power, his reveal. He may do with it as he pleases, im just grateful he chose me

[st.cronin]

Well, I'm out til after lynch. My vote is on Swaggs, and I think he's the best bet. Blade is fishy. I don't believe anything he says.

[Blade6119]

Alright guys, whats the plan? Lynch grey, then have king scan swaggs? Everybody like that plan, or no?

[saldana]

Wow. You are not suspicious of a wacky reveal like that? I liken the role he has claimed to one like Lathum had a couple games back, when Lathum summoned me as the avatar, and ended up winning the game for himself.

If Swaggs isn't connected to Mustang, he needs to explain how Mustang knows that he has to be lynched twice. Mustang needs to provide us with his cohorts, because he is holding something back.

it would stand to reason that if alan is a counter balance to grey (they have the same role for different teams), then mustang could be a counter balance to king....king is able to find out what our powers are, what if mustang could do the same thing for the chaos and he scanned swaggs, providing him with the 2x lynch information.

just a thought since we were looking for possible explanations, and the mirror image roles seem to be permeating this game

as i said this morning, i have never trusted grey, and have nothing but the word of a ghost to suspect swaggs of anything
vote greyroofoo

[saldana]

Well, I'm out til after lynch. My vote is on Swaggs, and I think he's the best bet. Blade is fishy. I don't believe anything he says.

funny, i dont believe anything you say. i think it is highly unlikely that the chaos or mutants have the ability to perform conversions AND resurrect a dead player as another of their cadre...the permutations of how many bad guys are left in this game are already ridiculous.

[Blade6119]

it would stand to reason that if alan is a counter balance to grey (they have the same role for different teams), then mustang could be a counter balance to king....king is able to find out what our powers are, what if mustang could do the same thing for the chaos and he scanned swaggs, providing him with the 2x lynch information.

just a thought since we were looking for possible explanations, and the mirror image roles seem to be permeating this game

as i said this morning, i have never trusted grey, and have nothing but the word of a ghost to suspect swaggs of anything
vote greyroofoo

Path was a mutant and he had the other bodyguard like role...anxiety seemed to have a seer like role, the same one twothree had i believe. I actually see a lot now that i look. Ironically, the primarch, who everyone assumed were the same on day 1, may be the one group most unique

[Fouts]

Going to leave my vote on Grey. I'm found him suspicious for quite awhile. I'm going to a class and won't be back until late tonight. I think we'll get this one right, but I'm not convinced Tangle will tell us if we were right.

[saldana]

Alright guys, whats the plan? Lynch grey, then have king scan swaggs? Everybody like that plan, or no?

works for me....although i am now interested in seeing what golden eagle has to say about his night activities....the other people i asked gave me the responses i expected.

[saldana]

Path was a mutant and he had the other bodyguard like role...anxiety seemed to have a seer like role, the same one twothree had i believe. I actually see a lot now that i look. Ironically, the primarch, who everyone assumed were the same on day 1, may be the one group most unique

like i said when you showed up this afternoon, i was anxious to see your perspective while you were dead...its always easier to pick stuff up when you are only reading.

[Blade6119]

like i said when you showed up this afternoon, i was anxious to see your perspective while you were dead...its always easier to pick stuff up when you are only reading.

To be honest i didnt read much. I still havent read much, only about 5 of the 20 or so i need to. I skimmed then when dead, but didnt read. Leaving ASU in a sec, and intend to read it all when i get home in like an hour. I may be missing things, but i think i hit the key points(the mustang saving/death claims, swaggs reveal, who has scanned who)

[Blade6119]

BrianD, can you tell me about your role at all? You and cronin are the roles i really am interested in right now, and cronin has claimed what his is repeatedly(claimed being the key word there)

[Blade6119]

Well well, here is GE...lets hear what our resident chaos hunter has to say...

[Blade6119]

dola, and id love to hear a night by ngiht rundown of what GE has done

[saldana]

just to mark the time since blades last post...i am sure ge is still reading, but he is still in the thread at this point

[Blade6119]

and GE is gone...i love how helpful he is...really

[Blade6119]

and hes back! Its like musical chairs!

[Blade6119]

I have to leave...i think its rather imperitive that grey is lynched today. That result will give us a strong path to follow, whatever the outcome. If GE talks in the next hour or so to deadline, dont sway your votes. Grey needs to be lynched, its rather key now.