How does it feel to have feedback utilized in Ncaa13

[T-Moar]

Quote: Originally Posted by Aranor

Fixing what was fixed before. Have y'all not played the old ps version? Precision passing was I the game. So was multiple passing styles. The players in the older version ran differently unlike this gens clones running the same. Take something out and add it back in years later and call it new. Seems how EA does things.

Really? Go back and play NCAA on PS2. You'll notice that throwing styles weren't significantly different, "precision passing" was the same system we had prior to this year, and leaping linebackers still existed.
People hype last-gen up like it was actually GOOD. Having recently played last gen (before I got 2010, my last iteration of the game was 2004) I can tell you personally that no, they did not take out noticeable features from last gen in creating this gen. Last gen's running game was god-awful, and the passing game was inferior to that of the current gen. The only thing I can tell that they took out was FCS teams, which I'm not really disappointed to see go.

[Aranor]

But what your saying is some of that was there back in 2004. It's what 2012 and they are coming out with NCAA 13 with still the same problems. No, they did have precision passing then, but took it out only to add it in later calling it new. The same problems they've neglected for years is showing more and more and people are starting to see it. That's why there are way more people upset about how the status quo is.

[misterkrabz]

"How does it feel to have feedback utilized in Ncaa13"????

I actually have no idea, it's never happened.

[Pokes404]

Quote: Originally Posted by T-Moar

Really? Go back and play NCAA on PS2. You'll notice that throwing styles weren't significantly different, "precision passing" was the same system we had prior to this year, and leaping linebackers still existed. People hype last-gen up like it was actually GOOD. Having recently played last gen (before I got 2010, my last iteration of the game was 2004) I can tell you personally that no, they did not take out noticeable features from last gen in creating this gen. Last gen's running game was god-awful, and the passing game was inferior to that of the current gen. The only thing I can tell that they took out was FCS teams, which I'm not really disappointed to see go.

While there were certainly problems on last-gen, the game had three critical aspects of football down much better than this generation of games.

1) Player movement - Players actually handled like human-beings. There was a noticeable difference between maneuvering an agile back, a power back, a linebacker, and a defensive tackle. There was even a noticeable difference between moving a "quick" guy and a "fast" guy. That's to say, acceleration meant a great deal. And it wasn't just the ball carrier, it was every player on the field. I was never crazy about the super-charged speed the game played at, but the player movements still felt very realistic. Not to mention the fact that the running animations looked much more natural (even including some lean in turns).

2) Passing Speeds/Trajectories - Super LBs were a problem last-gen, no doubt. On harder difficulties, defenders could pull some pretty crazy jumping, motion-shifts. However, players had much better tools to get around this. Receivers were much better about going up for the ball, instead of waiting for it to drop in their lap (a little too good sometimes). Lofted passes weren't moon shots that took an hour to get to the receiver. They still had some trajectory on them. Also, you could throw high-bullets in you needed to get the ball up, but needed to get it there. We still don't know if we'll have this option this year. The ball also traveled at a slower rate, which was not only more realistic, but allowed you to throw passes before the receiver was even out of his break. Getting the ball out before the receiver was out of his break was critical in beating tight coverage, but took awareness and good timing from the player. It really made you feel like a QB. The ball has traveled so fast in recent years that if you let it go as he goes into his cut, you'll often get a weird catch animation because the ball is on him so quick he doesn't even have time to come out of the break.

3) Much less Suction tackling/blocking - This definitely still existed, but it was to a much lesser degree. If you went sprinting full speed, downhill, with your linebacker, there was a good chance that RB would make a subtle cut and leave you in the dust. The more realistic player movement was part of it, but the other part was that you weren't going to get bailed out of a bad angle with a suction tackle animation. There was a much larger premium placed on being under control and taking a good pursuit angle. In fact, I often found myself having to use the strafe button when 1-on-1 with a RB to make sure I had him squared up. How often do you have to use strafe in this situation on the current-gen games? I'm willing to bet not that often. Now, the flip-side of this is that while you were much more free on defense to elude blocks, sometimes your line just couldn't block anyone. Zone blocking schemes were especially problematic as your lineman would clearly have a guy within range to block a defender, but just never would. Missed blocks by your OL were definitely a problem, but ironically, the downfield blocking by your TE's and WR's seemed a little better. They were good about getting downfield and not peeling back to get some guy 10 yards behind you.

Bottom line, the last-gen games aren't looked upon fondly because they were perfect games that had no problems at all. They are talked about because they replicated a lot of the fundamental aspects of football better than the current-gen games. And that was 8-10 years ago on systems that weren't as powerful. Because of this, many of us wonder why they seem to have so much trouble doing those same things now.

[shaunlmason]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Let me ask this and it comes from something someone posted before in the Madden forum, that I have been curious about ever since. If they truly started from scratch, why are so many legacy issues from last-gen still present in next-gen? On topic, like others have said, it always feels good to be heard but it's how that feedback gets implemented that counts. I think it was a great idea to bring in CD attendees much earlier because a lot of nuances can get lost in translation through just reading feedback. Having gamers with various POV's in the EA football community, working directly with devs to understand, not just hear what we want, should help better transition our feedback into the game. Time will tell.

Keep in mind that I am not an EA developer, but I am a developer.

What you think of as last gen issues likely comes from using a similar implementation. Imagine if it is NCAA '07 time and you have to start from scratch...you aren't going to reinvent the wheel you are going to get the basic idea down (likely in the same way you did before) then try to build on it.

There are times when I write applications that have very similar architecture underneath, it isn't uncommon for me to find a bug in one and have to go back and fix it in the others. They were still developed independently. The solution that worked last time is usually the solution you go back to.

[kingsofthevalley]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pokes404

While there were certainly problems on last-gen, the game had three critical aspects of football down much better than this generation of games. 1) Player movement - Players actually handled like human-beings. There was a noticeable difference between maneuvering an agile back, a power back, a linebacker, and a defensive tackle. There was even a noticeable difference between moving a "quick" guy and a "fast" guy. That's to say, acceleration meant a great deal. And it wasn't just the ball carrier, it was every player on the field. I was never crazy about the super-charged speed the game played at, but the player movements still felt very realistic. Not to mention the fact that the running animations looked much more natural (even including some lean in turns). 2) Passing Speeds/Trajectories - Super LBs were a problem last-gen, no doubt. On harder difficulties, defenders could pull some pretty crazy jumping, motion-shifts. However, players had much better tools to get around this. Receivers were much better about going up for the ball, instead of waiting for it to drop in their lap (a little too good sometimes). Lofted passes weren't moon shots that took an hour to get to the receiver. They still had some trajectory on them. Also, you could throw high-bullets in you needed to get the ball up, but needed to get it there. We still don't know if we'll have this option this year. The ball also traveled at a slower rate, which was not only more realistic, but allowed you to throw passes before the receiver was even out of his break. Getting the ball out before the receiver was out of his break was critical in beating tight coverage, but took awareness and good timing from the player. It really made you feel like a QB. The ball has traveled so fast in recent years that if you let it go as he goes into his cut, you'll often get a weird catch animation because the ball is on him so quick he doesn't even have time to come out of the break. 3) Much less Suction tackling/blocking - This definitely still existed, but it was to a much lesser degree. If you went sprinting full speed, downhill, with your linebacker, there was a good chance that RB would make a subtle cut and leave you in the dust. The more realistic player movement was part of it, but the other part was that you weren't going to get bailed out of a bad angle with a suction tackle animation. There was a much larger premium placed on being under control and taking a good pursuit angle. In fact, I often found myself having to use the strafe button when 1-on-1 with a RB to make sure I had him squared up. How often do you have to use strafe in this situation on the current-gen games? I'm willing to bet not that often. Now, the flip-side of this is that while you were much more free on defense to elude blocks, sometimes your line just couldn't block anyone. Zone blocking schemes were especially problematic as your lineman would clearly have a guy within range to block a defender, but just never would. Missed blocks by your OL were definitely a problem, but ironically, the downfield blocking by your TE's and WR's seemed a little better. They were good about getting downfield and not peeling back to get some guy 10 yards behind you. Bottom line, the last-gen games aren't looked upon fondly because they were perfect games that had no problems at all. They are talked about because they replicated a lot of the fundamental aspects of football better than the current-gen games. And that was 8-10 years ago on systems that weren't as powerful. Because of this, many of us wonder why they seem to have so much trouble doing those same things now.

Perfect. I couldn't have said it better man. Drastically different player movement and interaction no doubt about it. Way more realistic than what we have now. Once again, I'm going to remind everyone, the devs switched it up intentionally (player movement) and what we need is to get back to basics. Make the players move like humans move not like these arcade/tourney players want them to move. They have NFL Blitz for that crap .

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by ShaunLMason

Keep in mind that I am not an EA developer, but I am a developer. What you think of as last gen issues likely comes from using a similar implementation. Imagine if it is NCAA '07 time and you have to start from scratch...you aren't going to reinvent the wheel you are going to get the basic idea down (likely in the same way you did before) then try to build on it. There are times when I write applications that have very similar architecture underneath, it isn't uncommon for me to find a bug in one and have to go back and fix it in the others. They were still developed independently. The solution that worked last time is usually the solution you go back to.

I am no programmer on any level but what's the big difference in copying the same foundation opposed to porting it over wholesale if the same issues are there?

When I think about starting from scratch, in relation to gaming, I think of them doing things completely different. Now I fully understand if that's not the case but them using that as an excuse for the game not being as fundamentally feature filled in 7 years on more powerful consoles as it was last-gen, seems like an intentional business plan, not a programming limitation.

Not you but it seems EA/Tiburon would be trying to have it both ways then.. On the one hand they say it takes time to fix these legacy issues because the core code from last gen is flawed but on the other hand they say since they didn't port over the old code, they are starting from scratch so it takes time to add all that stuff back.

As a programming layman, I would think the purpose of copying code over to a new console instead of just porting it over as is, would be to refine it and correct any issues in the original. However, if that is the case, then I don't understand why the revised code would still contain the same issues as the original, like it seems to in Madden.

[T-Moar]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pokes404

While there were certainly problems on last-gen, the game had three critical aspects of football down much better than this generation of games. 1) Player movement - Players actually handled like human-beings. There was a noticeable difference between maneuvering an agile back, a power back, a linebacker, and a defensive tackle. There was even a noticeable difference between moving a "quick" guy and a "fast" guy. That's to say, acceleration meant a great deal. And it wasn't just the ball carrier, it was every player on the field. I was never crazy about the super-charged speed the game played at, but the player movements still felt very realistic. Not to mention the fact that the running animations looked much more natural (even including some lean in turns). 2) Passing Speeds/Trajectories - Super LBs were a problem last-gen, no doubt. On harder difficulties, defenders could pull some pretty crazy jumping, motion-shifts. However, players had much better tools to get around this. Receivers were much better about going up for the ball, instead of waiting for it to drop in their lap (a little too good sometimes). Lofted passes weren't moon shots that took an hour to get to the receiver. They still had some trajectory on them. Also, you could throw high-bullets in you needed to get the ball up, but needed to get it there. We still don't know if we'll have this option this year. The ball also traveled at a slower rate, which was not only more realistic, but allowed you to throw passes before the receiver was even out of his break. Getting the ball out before the receiver was out of his break was critical in beating tight coverage, but took awareness and good timing from the player. It really made you feel like a QB. The ball has traveled so fast in recent years that if you let it go as he goes into his cut, you'll often get a weird catch animation because the ball is on him so quick he doesn't even have time to come out of the break. 3) Much less Suction tackling/blocking - This definitely still existed, but it was to a much lesser degree. If you went sprinting full speed, downhill, with your linebacker, there was a good chance that RB would make a subtle cut and leave you in the dust. The more realistic player movement was part of it, but the other part was that you weren't going to get bailed out of a bad angle with a suction tackle animation. There was a much larger premium placed on being under control and taking a good pursuit angle. In fact, I often found myself having to use the strafe button when 1-on-1 with a RB to make sure I had him squared up. How often do you have to use strafe in this situation on the current-gen games? I'm willing to bet not that often. Now, the flip-side of this is that while you were much more free on defense to elude blocks, sometimes your line just couldn't block anyone. Zone blocking schemes were especially problematic as your lineman would clearly have a guy within range to block a defender, but just never would. Missed blocks by your OL were definitely a problem, but ironically, the downfield blocking by your TE's and WR's seemed a little better. They were good about getting downfield and not peeling back to get some guy 10 yards behind you. Bottom line, the last-gen games aren't looked upon fondly because they were perfect games that had no problems at all. They are talked about because they replicated a lot of the fundamental aspects of football better than the current-gen games. And that was 8-10 years ago on systems that weren't as powerful. Because of this, many of us wonder why they seem to have so much trouble doing those same things now.

I'm going to politely disagree on your opinion of the last gen. I'm not trying to convince you that you're wrong, but my view of these aspects' representation in the previous gen differs from yours:

1) I'm going to assume you're right here because I don't really pay attention to player movement and I'm trying to keep this discussion constructive.

2) I wouldn't say that the tools we had to get around the Heisman Leaping Linebackers were significantly better. Admittedly, receivers were better about going for the ball, but I feel like your memory is hazy when it comes to the claimed nonexistence of moon balls. I remember a particularly noticeable glitch in 2004 that caused CPU QBs to moon-ball a throw downfield when under pressure. It resulted in many a pick-6 in my favor. I'm not going to comment on the ability to throw a high-ball, because like you said, we still don't know if that's actually in the game this year. I will agree with you on the ball speed, though.

3) The problem with the lack of suction blocking is that it wasn't implemented well. The o-line was nearly nonexistent. The run-game was nearly impossible unless you ran the option, and the option game was nearly unstoppable. It was way too easy to get sacks. And, quite honestly, I'd rather have suction blocking/tackling than badly-implemented non-suction blocking/tackling. At least they've taken the time to make the run game a viable option in recent years.

Overall, I'm not saying that the games on last-gen weren't decent representations of college football -- yes, they had a few things right that the current gen doesn't. But the people on OS that seem to be implying that last gen is NCAA's version of The Show as opposed to this gen being MLB 2k are just ridiculous.