EA SPORTS FC25 OS Community Sliders

[WoodsFC]

I dropped the pass speed to 33, went FUMA, and the precision pass feature is still overpowered; it is a manual pass so I don't think it is that big of a deal, there should be skill based mechanics in the game. there are many times where I screw up the direction and/or power and get punished for it.


also i increased the first touch error to 99 and didn't notice a difference, so that's wonderful...

[plevs]

Quote: Originally Posted by Matt10

I've just sent that to the testers. I've tested it myself in this stream as well. First stream: Version 3, WC Second stream: Version 3, with your adjustments (skip ahead as I forgot to put the FT control in, then also forgot to change the CPU's Roles and continued anyway as I was pressed for time). I also eventually changed to 35/50 Sprint/Acc. I don't mind it, but could burst at times, not as bad - so jury is still out and I don't mind testing it more. Findings: I personally have always liked a lower pass error, but low pass speed just kills the ball. The second stream is anchored by the pass error value, not necessarily the pass speed. Being able to use Pass Error at 50 will always result in better play, but at what cost? I'll need to play some tiki-taka teams, and higher caliber teams at that, but the gameplay was decent. I'll have to play more with 35/50 Sprint/Acc on higher pass speed as well. With that said, I can't agree with your comment about the findings of Pass Speed 45 being incorrect or "less accurate", as you can see in the first stream it's clear how the ball has to be controlled so much more. You can see clearly in my stream that not every pass is a ping type pass. There is plenty of calm needed, and the ball bobbles on the pitch because the foot contact isn't ideal. That's the difference with lower pass error here, the foot to ball contact is pure a lot of the time, so the pass speed is of course not even playing like a 33, it's like a 40. You can see at times there are players who legs have to warp into position to receive the passes at the lower pass speed as well. In addition, the passes into space are accurate, none overhit. Despite the FT being so high, the control from every player is immaculate unless there is a decent collision - which was nice to see. So it's not that findings are "inaccurate", they are just different. There are moments where the driven pass makes the 45 look terrible, but then there are moments where some of the ball physics would never be seen on 33. This is what I'm talking about sacrifices of FIFA. You made a mention about PES and as a PES vet myself, the ball physics were always king. It was about controlling the ball, and not everyone had the perfect touch. Also like PES, retro specifically, you had to be careful with who you wanted to sprint with and be cautious on what type of passes you would try. Again, I appreciate the feedback and as you can see I'll test whatever is provided, so the fact you provided something to try made it even more intriguing. Hopefully we can get more eyes from the testers. I know the majority here will side with the lower pass speed + pass error, and that's fine. I hope a middle ground can be found.

Thanks Matt, appreciate that you guys take feedback on board and try different things to improve the slider set - also hope that my feedback didn't come accross as overly negative or anything (I'm trying to be constructive). Also realise that everyone wants/values different things from the gameplay experience, and plays the game differently, so finding a set that suits everyone is really impossible.

I've watched your testing videos and my main observation is that the gameplay looks the same to me. I thought that was strange and then I saw you were adjusting the sliders and restarting the match between changes - this isn't going to change the sliders from what you loaded into that match with and tweaking sliders during a match even if you restart it won't have any effect at all. Any adjustments won't take effect until the next match you play - it's really stupid but that's just how it is in FC25.

So while I really appreciate you trying to test the values I suggested, you were actually still using the sliders you loaded into the match with, so your observations/comments are placebo.

You'll need to set the sliders in the settings screen before going to matchday for the changes to take effect - suggest using all the new values together rather than testing one at a time. You should notice a more significant difference than what is evident in your video.

One thing I did find really interesting in your videos is that the higher pass speed did seem a lot more calm than it does for me, and a slower game speed in general, it actually looks quite good. I think it's been mentioned in this thread before, but the camera settings a player uses seems to have an effect on how the game plays and is can be percieved, which is pretty weird. This just reinforced that for me as this looks nothing like the how the V3 sliders play for me - I use the Tele Broadcast camera with 20 height and 0 zoom.

I'll see if I can record some gameplay to show the difference.

[plevs]

I've recorded playing the same game twice, first game with V3 Legendary sliders, and second with the adjustments I suggested to show the difference:

Sprint speed - 35/35 (V2 values so all players can sprint)
Acceleration - 50/50 (V2 values), OR 48/48 for more natural animations if you don't care about players having a bit more stamina.
Pass error - 50/50 (to enable realistic passing speed and still maintain CPU effectiveness)
Pass speed - 33/33 (more relaistic passing speed)
FT error - 99/99 (more loose touches and loose balls, and the ball isn't glued to players feet as much)

Provided some thoughts and commentary on the difference between matches as I was recording:

[g98smith]

Quote: Originally Posted by Matt10

This is good feedback, as was your previous post. I'll preface my response with an apology of how layered it will be as there are so many variables that have to be considered now when troubleshooting. First off, this looks to be against 4-2-3-1, one of the worst formations in FC25 because the lack of a box-to-box midfielder on preset tactics, rather the handicapping presence of two holding midfielders. Nonetheless, we definitely spent time with lower league teams (that's a lot of my game-time) and 30 deep line matchups. The issue that I saw was how deep the midfield was, practically touching the defensive line. At the time, the height value was at 62. It wasn't until it was moved to 58 that there started to be some better spacing. In addition, the 58 worked well for those who had really high defensive lines such as 95. In the video above, two of those goals are counters, the defensive line 30 won't step up to that value until the 60's gameplay slider or higher acc, or higher marking. Even then, the biggest issue is defenders not meeting attackers regardless of slider value. When playing with a gradual build-up of numbers, such as not playing directly into the striker and turning, the defensive midfield can recover in the height 55-60 range relative to the 40-42 line length. The 3rd and 4th goal the defensive line is there, but get too tight and have no support from the two holding mids. If this is WC, I'd suggest acceleration discrepancy and try to recreate it, but honestly, games against a 4-2-3-1 are pretty poor. This is why I will change those teams to a 4-1-4-1 with box-to-box midfielders. We need depth on both sides of the ball. Line Height gameplay slider works as an upfield pressure mechanic. It pushes/squeezes midfielders through, and if it's too high, it won't release enough of that pressure to let those midfielders back in. This is why some sets, and the sim mode for example uses lengths under 40 as we had before. The issue with that value was that there was too much instant retreating and jumbling up in the midfield which gave up more and more space. For reference, here's s screenshot from one of the main games I played versus Burton Albion who are a 30 depth, and I'm using 62 height. It looks decent, and I'm on board with it: Play a different game against a 95 depth team with 62 line height, and now the midfield has become a single flat unit with the defensive line. So, we're in a conundrum here with the Height value. We go too high on 30 depth teams, then we send the higher depth teams out of the equation. In addition, the higher height will also prevent those midfielders from tracking backwards enough, unless we want to really reduce length again. The tweaks made were not just for WC, the main change there is Acc, Length Discrepancy and Marking. The Sprint 30 was an agreement that we had just increased pass speed and acceleration, we need to ensure the game doesn't become too fast. We were on Sprint 35 for a while, but that really started to feel like it was just a sprint fest. Gone was the gradual walk-jog-sprint aspect that FC25 started out of the box with. The only time that was recaptured was with 30 Sprint, not even 32 Sprint could reestablish that pattern. So, the testing was done with the higher acceleration to act as a modifier of the lower sprint, so we can maintain the gradual movements. So as you can see we're fighting an uphill battle against proper movements, and essentially defensive and midfield depth that covers all bases. This post-update has resulted in the striker not being met by the defenders as often unless we really drop width well below 48 (we were at 45 for a while as well) like in Version 2. Even then there is no guarantee, and then we run the risk of our outside mids venturing off to the center of the pitch too early. Even on 48 you can see in those videos how the central midfielders get caught too tight. For Pass Speed, 45 just came to have a lot of benefits. In essence it brought back mastering the ball, not just having it stuck to your feet. The best being passes into space from the CPU, more deflections overall, different types of deflections, and most importantly the ball not being stuck underneath players so they aren't unrealistically striking the ball where their foot would never meet the same type of power IRL. From the video, @WoodsFC , I'd guess you're using R1/precision pass on the majority of those passes? If that's your choice, I'd suggest drop user pass speed significantly, to something like 35 or 38, because those driven passes are taking the 45 to a 55-60 level and the FT Control value isn't punishing enough on 60. Overall, I hope you understand how we got to where we are - and why some decisions were made. It's not to say we won't change them, it's just that if you provide examples, you have to know that there is a rule of opposites that follow where those examples or suggestions won't add up. Like any FIFA/FC, we have to sacrifice some things and maybe have to modify some things to get more out of the game. This year is filled with the need to modify to your personal preference and what you like. You're not playing or testing in the same fashion here. If 90% of the teams you face are going to be 30 depth teams, then please, change the value to what you want or already know that works.

Firstly, really appreciate the detailed response Matt. You make some great points regarding the impact of formations/roles and midfield spacing/depth.

One thing I would say is that you mentioned a couple of times teams that have a very high defensive line (95) - but even teams that are set to “High” by default, such as Liverpool (who are notorious for having a very high line) still only have the value set to 65. Unless it can dynamically increase during a game? If so that’s a feature I was completely unaware of. Either way, completely agree that this is one of those classic “pick your poison” situations; personally, given the majority of teams (in the lower leagues at least) seem to be either “Deep” (30) or “Balanced” (50), it seems preferable to me to use a higher line height slider value - I’ll definitely give 62 a try later today and feed back. Would you suggest pairing that with a slightly reduced line length value (i.e. 38-40) as a consequence to release some of the upfield pressure?

Completely agree with you on wanting to recapture the walk-jog-sprint animations that we started with, but unfortunately I’m personally seeing too many instances on 30 Sprint where it’s more like walk-jog-jog, especially with centre backs. I think they need more of a helping hand in trying to recover and the Acc bump isn’t quite enough to do it. As ever, it’s a very fine balancing act which I can completely understand.

Pass Speed is definitely going to come down to personal preference, especially depending on how much the individual utilises RB/R1 driven passes - I tend to use those quite a lot, so 45 is mayhem for me. I agree with you that anything too low kills the ball; personally I think 38-40 is the sweet spot, paired with 50-55 error - perhaps this is the middle ground you mentioned? One thing I haven’t experimented with up to now is the FT error, so it’s interesting to see the feedback from others - will definitely give this a try later too.

Would just like to add it’s great to see this level of productive, constructive discussion which is absolutely what this thread should be about. Cheers all.

[Milo1990]

Can someone please explain to me how to make the AI make more passing errors? I've been playing as Liverpool v Arsenal, probably 20 times using Pass Error of 1-99 (using v3 sliders) and the AI have a passing accuracy of 90-92% on WC.
It's starting to bend my brain. I just want the AI to play with realistic pass accuracy and the pass error slider seems to have zero impact.

[Sylvioros]

Quote: Originally Posted by Milo1990

Can someone please explain to me how to make the AI make more passing errors? I've been playing as Liverpool v Arsenal, probably 20 times using Pass Error of 1-99 (using v3 sliders) and the AI have a passing accuracy of 90-92% on WC. It's starting to bend my brain. I just want the AI to play with realistic pass accuracy and the pass error slider seems to have zero impact.

By decreasing pass speed. However, Pass Error and Pass Speed and relative to LH (Line Length, Line Height). The more compact the players are, the fewer mistakes they will make.

90-92% for 5-star clubs is kinda realistic, specially in matches with 5-6min halves.

[Milo1990]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sylvioros

By decreasing pass speed. However, Pass Error and Pass Speed and relative to LH (Line Length, Line Height). The more compact the players are, the fewer mistakes they will make. 90-92% for 5-star clubs is kinda realistic, specially in matches with 5-6min halves.

Ah that's interesting. Thanks for the colour.

[Matt10]

Quote: Originally Posted by plevs

I've recorded playing the same game twice, first game with V3 Legendary sliders, and second with the adjustments I suggested to show the difference: Sprint speed - 35/35 (V2 values so all players can sprint) Acceleration - 50/50 (V2 values), OR 48/48 for more natural animations if you don't care about players having a bit more stamina. Pass error - 50/50 (to enable realistic passing speed and still maintain CPU effectiveness) Pass speed - 33/33 (more relaistic passing speed) FT error - 99/99 (more loose touches and loose balls, and the ball isn't glued to players feet as much) Provided some thoughts and commentary on the difference between matches as I was recording:

I see what you're saying about Sprint Speed 30, and again, we changed it to this value to compensate for the increase in other areas. We didn't want to post 35 Sprint with 45 pass speed and 51-52 acceleration. I will also say that you're using custom behavior values, so it's not the 30 Sprint that is only causing the CPU issues. They are struggling relative to those values + Sprint perhaps, but it's not the main reason they've struggled.

Watching the pass speed at 33, yeah, this just looks so slow. The ball just dies as it reaches players. The way players dribble with the ball so close to their feet as well, just looks odd. I think there is definitely room for middle ground.

Quote: Originally Posted by g98smith

Firstly, really appreciate the detailed response Matt. You make some great points regarding the impact of formations/roles and midfield spacing/depth. One thing I would say is that you mentioned a couple of times teams that have a very high defensive line (95) - but even teams that are set to “High” by default, such as Liverpool (who are notorious for having a very high line) still only have the value set to 65. Unless it can dynamically increase during a game? If so that’s a feature I was completely unaware of. Either way, completely agree that this is one of those classic “pick your poison” situations; personally, given the majority of teams (in the lower leagues at least) seem to be either “Deep” (30) or “Balanced” (50), it seems preferable to me to use a higher line height slider value - I’ll definitely give 62 a try later today and feed back. Would you suggest pairing that with a slightly reduced line length value (i.e. 38-40) as a consequence to release some of the upfield pressure? Completely agree with you on wanting to recapture the walk-jog-sprint animations that we started with, but unfortunately I’m personally seeing too many instances on 30 Sprint where it’s more like walk-jog-jog, especially with centre backs. I think they need more of a helping hand in trying to recover and the Acc bump isn’t quite enough to do it. As ever, it’s a very fine balancing act which I can completely understand. Pass Speed is definitely going to come down to personal preference, especially depending on how much the individual utilises RB/R1 driven passes - I tend to use those quite a lot, so 45 is mayhem for me. I agree with you that anything too low kills the ball; personally I think 38-40 is the sweet spot, paired with 50-55 error - perhaps this is the middle ground you mentioned? One thing I haven’t experimented with up to now is the FT error, so it’s interesting to see the feedback from others - will definitely give this a try later too. Would just like to add it’s great to see this level of productive, constructive discussion which is absolutely what this thread should be about. Cheers all.

Yeah, I'd say lower length in those instances because they just won't get back as quick or in-time. So 38/40 can work. I know I was testing that at some point, but I got annoyed with seeing the midfielders instantly retreat on 50/50 balls.

Sim mode uses Sprint 32 and 55 acc, right? What's the consensus with that?

The balance of the gradual movement versus all-out-sprint is tough. I am wanting to recapture it because it is so rare for FIFA/FC to have something like that. It's how you change the pace of play. The way players gradually move into position to make a block, etc. You can feel the difference between tall lanky defenders versus the athletic ones. Then from a video game POV, there is strategy that comes into play. If Sprint 30 isn't the value, then I'd rather move to 32 to start rather than go to 35.