Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

[bmlimo]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZombieRommel

I don't mind the idea and I think this might be the direction they're heading in already for UFC4. If you notice, in the last tuner update, the jumping switch kicks do more bleed on block now. Ideally, I'd like to get rid of block breaking and just make blocking a little harder overall (front and side instead of high and low). The whole reason a block break mechanic must exist now is because it's too easy to just hide behind the high block. Body shots were made pretty unsafe on block, so spamming them right now isn't as viable as in UFC2. Which means that a safer idea is usually to target the head, but that only goes so far if people can just hold R2 and be fine. So for my money, I'd like blocking (and potentially parrying) to take enough skill and thought to where the block break mechanic becomes unnecessary. The whole reason for the inflated strike output (or at least the MAIN reason) is because we have to bang on the block 3 times to get 1 strike through. Well either that or body hunt, which is both lame and not safe.

The block has this strength because u can throw to much strikes in a round and because combos are waaay faster than they should, put a proper speed in the game and weak the block would be my 2 cents, the game beeing more slower people would care about head move,met in the middle of a combo not in the end or in the beginning

[Haz____]

Big respect for ZombieRommel, buuut, it is actually really funny to me.....

The "turtle" meta he is describing, that would "break the game", to me at least, sounds like a waaaaaaaay better game than what we have currently, as well as a far more accurate and realistic representation of real, true to life, high level MMA.

A game where each strike is important, and matters. Where you have to pick and choose your strikes, be smart about your output, and be careful about risking opening yourself up. Where you have to use distance control, rhythm manipulation, feinting, pattern setting, footwork & footsies, etc, and use actual set ups to create openings for your strikes...

That game sounds amazing to me.

[tomitomitomi]

Quote: Originally Posted by ZombieRommel

Ideally, I'd like to get rid of block breaking and just make blocking a little harder overall (front and side instead of high and low). The whole reason a block break mechanic must exist now is because it's too easy to just hide behind the high block.

How would you ensure that the game wouldn't become too focused on mixing up jab/cross and hooks? That has been a common complaint from people who complain about pressure.

[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by tomitomitomi

How would you ensure that the game wouldn't become too focused on mixing up jab/cross and hooks? That has been a common complaint from people who complain about pressure.

That's literally real life fighting. Mixing up strikes and combinations so they hit from different angles. I usually side with you on a lot of things, but I can't with that statement.

What you want is more responsiveness with regards to the defensive options available.

[RomeroXVII]

Quote: Originally Posted by Haz____

Big respect for ZombieRommel, buuut, it is actually really funny to me..... The "turtle" meta he is describing, that would "break the game", to me at least, sounds like a waaaaaaaay better game than what we have currently, as well as a far more accurate and realistic representation of real, true to life, high level MMA. A game where each strike is important, and matters. Where you have to pick and choose your strikes, be smart about your output, and be careful about risking opening yourself up. Where you have to use distance control, rhythm manipulation, feinting, pattern setting, footwork & footsies, etc, and use actual set ups to create openings for your strikes... That game sounds amazing to me.

Pretty much all of that is already in game, except for where the lines blur with managing output, due to the whole thing with the stamina pool which is explained in the In-Depth Dive that Geoff Harrower posted that NOBODY seems to read, but meh.


Edit: We need a much more in DEPTH tutorial. You have given me an idea Haz.

[tomitomitomi]

Quote: Originally Posted by RomeroXVII

That's literally real life fighting. Mixing up strikes and combinations so they hit from different angles. I usually side with you on a lot of things, but I can't with that statement. What you want is more responsiveness with regards to the defensive options available.

I definitely agree with your sentiment. Mix-ups and setting up strikes should definitely be an integral part of the game but at the same time I don't think it is healthy for the game if the the meta turns into aggressive 50-50 mixups, particularly at the bottom 80% of the playerbase. Obviously efficient/accurate offense should be rewarded.

[ZHunter1990]

I had the chance to speak with Max Holloway for about an hour at the LEC event in Vegas about hi/lo vs front/side block and he largely seemed to favor the concept of front/side.

As a way to avoid crazy straight and looping punch combo variations you could implement blocking while using head movement with some punishes for blocking and swaying into a strike as well as other limitations.

These are things the GCers brought up during development of UFC3.

[ZombieRommel]

Yup, blocking + head movement would be a lot more balanced if you had to choose front vs side instead of just high vs low.

Front vs side would solve other issues on the defensive side, also. Like how people mix up body kick / head kick over and over now. What might be cool is if "side block" blocked both roundhouse body & head kicks, but the timing of the press affected bleedthrough on the head kick and whether or not the leg was caught for the body kick.

Martial has suggested a separate input for leg kick checks, which I am on board with.

But yeah, I think a LOT of issues people have with the game right now can be tied back to high/low blocking. People don't like the block break mechanic because it encourages jab spam and thus inflated strike counts. But if the high block couldn't be broken, it would be absurdly overpowered.

If blocking required more thought and shot selection mattered at all times, you could get rid of block-breaking altogether.

Then insert blocking + head movement to fill in the gaps we currently have and make whirlwind mixups less threatening.

I remember you mentioning that Holloway endorsed front / side. That's really cool. But I suppose ultimately it's the devs' call.