MLB 18 The Show Trade Discussion

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  • BigOscar
    MVP
    • May 2016
    • 2971

    #466
    Re: MLB 18 The Show Trade Discussion

    Trading Archer at a value of $38m isn't realistic, at all. There is literally no way the Rays are trading him that cheap. $100m is closer to the mark but genuinely they've been asking for more than that and will probably get it from someone sooner or later.

    I know BR has his WAR bizarrely low but that's not what anyone in baseball seems to value him at, the Fangraphs one seems far more reliable.

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    • beekay415
      Into the Wild
      • Jun 2005
      • 860

      #467
      Re: MLB 18 The Show Trade Discussion

      just curious where you guys get your contracted salary portion form?

      Comment

      • Bard
        YouTube: NHBard
        • Oct 2010
        • 7803

        #468
        Re: MLB 18 The Show Trade Discussion

        Originally posted by BigOscar
        Trading Archer at a value of $38m isn't realistic, at all. There is literally no way the Rays are trading him that cheap. $100m is closer to the mark but genuinely they've been asking for more than that and will probably get it from someone sooner or later.

        I know BR has his WAR bizarrely low but that's not what anyone in baseball seems to value him at, the Fangraphs one seems far more reliable.
        I honestly don't value him that high at all. He is a number 3 pitcher that is over-hyped as an ace. He literally is a two pitch pitcher that can hardly get through a 3rd time in the order.
        Originally posted by beekay415
        just curious where you guys get your contracted salary portion form?
        Spotrac usually.

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        • BigOscar
          MVP
          • May 2016
          • 2971

          #469
          Re: MLB 18 The Show Trade Discussion

          Originally posted by Bard
          I honestly don't value him that high at all. He is a number 3 pitcher that is over-hyped as an ace. He literally is a two pitch pitcher that can hardly get through a 3rd time in the order.Spotrac usually.

          Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
          Baseball in general seems to disagree with you, but more to the point, if a team went up to the Rays and offered one 55 rated hitting prospect for Chris Archer, they would be laughed out of the room. It's not remotely in line with the rumours of what teams have offered, yet alone what the Rays have asked for.

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          • Bard
            YouTube: NHBard
            • Oct 2010
            • 7803

            #470
            Re: MLB 18 The Show Trade Discussion

            Originally posted by BigOscar
            Baseball in general seems to disagree with you, but more to the point, if a team went up to the Rays and offered one 55 rated hitting prospect for Chris Archer, they would be laughed out of the room. It's not remotely in line with the rumours of what teams have offered, yet alone what the Rays have asked for.
            Have you been reading through the thread? I know you have since I have replied to some of your inquiries.

            I have ranked Archer for Florial + Sheffield + lotto ticket

            Wright/Gohara + Fried + hitting lottery ticket

            I think personally Colome should be included in any deal Archer is in because Archer doesn't hold a lot of value, yet people over-value him for some weird reason. He is basically Sonny Gray.

            I may value him low, because that's what he deserves, but everyone knows the Rays won't accept a deal for him unless it is like the above.

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            • Yankees247
              Rookie
              • May 2017
              • 186

              #471
              Re: MLB 18 The Show Trade Discussion

              Originally posted by BigOscar
              Baseball in general seems to disagree with you, but more to the point, if a team went up to the Rays and offered one 55 rated hitting prospect for Chris Archer, they would be laughed out of the room. It's not remotely in line with the rumours of what teams have offered, yet alone what the Rays have asked for.
              I understand what you mean but I do not honestly value him that high either. I dont value him as low as 38 thought. IMO he is more of in the 50-60 million range but I know the Rays wouldnt take that offer and that is probably why they havent traded him because no one is willing to overpay for him.

              Comment

              • Yankees247
                Rookie
                • May 2017
                • 186

                #472
                Re: MLB 18 The Show Trade Discussion

                Originally posted by Bard
                Have you been reading through the thread? I know you have since I have replied to some of your inquiries.

                I have ranked Archer for Florial + Sheffield + lotto ticket

                Wright/Gohara + Fried + hitting lottery ticket

                I think personally Colome should be included in any deal Archer is in because Archer doesn't hold a lot of value, yet people over-value him for some weird reason. He is basically Sonny Gray.

                I may value him low, because that's what he deserves, but everyone knows the Rays won't accept a deal for him unless it is like the above.

                Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
                I know what you mean and to be honest being a yankees fan I would not give Florial for archer let alone florial and sheffield but I know his asking price is huge that the rays are asking and I doubt they get

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                • Bard
                  YouTube: NHBard
                  • Oct 2010
                  • 7803

                  #473
                  Re: MLB 18 The Show Trade Discussion

                  It'll likely be Florial + Adams and call it a day.

                  I just don't get the infatuation with Archer.

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                  • Yankees247
                    Rookie
                    • May 2017
                    • 186

                    #474
                    Re: MLB 18 The Show Trade Discussion

                    Originally posted by Bard
                    It'll likely be Florial + Adams and call it a day.

                    I just don't get the infatuation with Archer.

                    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
                    Agreed. I can tell you in my franchise I will not be paying for him.

                    Comment

                    • beekay415
                      Into the Wild
                      • Jun 2005
                      • 860

                      #475
                      Re: MLB 18 The Show Trade Discussion

                      one more question, how do you calculate surplus for prospects, i saw you said acuna is 73.5

                      Comment

                      • Bard
                        YouTube: NHBard
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 7803

                        #476
                        Re: MLB 18 The Show Trade Discussion

                        Originally posted by beekay415
                        one more question, how do you calculate surplus for prospects, i saw you said acuna is 73.5
                        I will PM you. It's a certain website as prospects are nearly impossible to truly value, but we found a pretty good one last year.

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                        • BigOscar
                          MVP
                          • May 2016
                          • 2971

                          #477
                          Re: MLB 18 The Show Trade Discussion

                          Originally posted by Bard
                          Have you been reading through the thread? I know you have since I have replied to some of your inquiries.

                          I have ranked Archer for Florial + Sheffield + lotto ticket

                          Wright/Gohara + Fried + hitting lottery ticket

                          I think personally Colome should be included in any deal Archer is in because Archer doesn't hold a lot of value, yet people over-value him for some weird reason. He is basically Sonny Gray.

                          I may value him low, because that's what he deserves, but everyone knows the Rays won't accept a deal for him unless it is like the above.

                          Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
                          I'm sorry but I can't buy into your logic that everyone in baseball is overrating him. Seems more likely that people in baseball are much more inclined to agree with Fangraphs version of WAR and value him accordingly.

                          It comes down to whether you back BR or Fangraphs WAR calculations and it seems pretty apparent that people in baseball seem to be definitely on the side of fangraphs in this case.

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                          • Bard
                            YouTube: NHBard
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 7803

                            #478
                            Re: MLB 18 The Show Trade Discussion

                            Originally posted by BigOscar
                            I'm sorry but I can't buy into your logic that everyone in baseball is overrating him. Seems more likely that people in baseball are much more inclined to agree with Fangraphs version of WAR and value him accordingly.

                            It comes down to whether you back BR or Fangraphs WAR calculations and it seems pretty apparent that people in baseball seem to be definitely on the side of fangraphs in this case.
                            Agree to disagree.

                            There are a mix of factors for Archer, he plays in the AL East so because he plays against the Yankees and Red Sox he will get over valued by the average fan because he strikes out batters from the 2 most prominent franchises in the sport. The gaudy strikeout totals are also a factor. The average fan probably doesn’t know he’s had stretches of completely ditching the changeup. Also the fact he showcases he can pitch 200 innings, which is a very important number as very few pitchers cross that threshold anymore. Fan perception and what front offices think will always be different as the teams are significant farther along than fans. Trade wise he’s valuable but I think people will be underwhelmed by what he gets in return, of course in my honest opinion.

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                            • BigOscar
                              MVP
                              • May 2016
                              • 2971

                              #479
                              Re: MLB 18 The Show Trade Discussion

                              Originally posted by Bard
                              Agree to disagree.

                              There are a mix of factors for Archer, he plays in the AL East so because he plays against the Yankees and Red Sox he will get over valued by the average fan because he strikes out batters from the 2 most prominent franchises in the sport. The gaudy strikeout totals are also a factor. The average fan probably doesn’t know he’s had stretches of completely ditching the changeup. Also the fact he showcases he can pitch 200 innings, which is a very important number as very few pitchers cross that threshold anymore. Fan perception and what front offices think will always be different as the teams are significant farther along than fans. Trade wise he’s valuable but I think people will be underwhelmed by what he gets in return, of course in my honest opinion.

                              Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
                              As you say, agree to disagree, but just generally I'd back fangraphs over BR for advanced statistics and they are pretty high on him(and seemingly a lot more in line with what general baseball seems to think).

                              I'm pretty sure fangraphs is even where all these WAR and prospect values come from aren't they?

                              Comment

                              • Bard
                                YouTube: NHBard
                                • Oct 2010
                                • 7803

                                #480
                                Re: MLB 18 The Show Trade Discussion

                                Originally posted by BigOscar
                                As you say, agree to disagree, but just generally I'd back fangraphs over BR for advanced statistics and they are pretty high on him(and seemingly a lot more in line with what general baseball seems to think).

                                I'm pretty sure fangraphs is even where all these WAR and prospect values come from aren't they?
                                Depends on the site, franchise, people. You have no idea, and I have no idea. Most people I talk to use BR because it has been far more accurate in returns for trades and of valuing players year to year.

                                Everything I use has BWAR in it, as I have used both but Fangraphs overrates players, again, in my opinion.

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