Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

[hjgilber]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Yes or no, Byron Buxton should be about an 80 overall.

No, he put up a a sub-.800 OPS in rookie ball and is only 19. He should be higher than Almora by a few points. Almora around a 69, Buxton around a 73.

BA:
Buxton #10
Almora #33

BP:
Buxton #8
Almora #18

KL:
Buxton #22
Almora #33

JS:
Buxton #37
Almora #44


The ranking difference between them isn't much, this is a much closer gap than the one between Almora and Hawkins. You are wrong again.


Also, can you respond to the factual evidence I posted to prove the wide gap between Almora and Hawkins, because you keep ignoring it (due to the fact that it completely shuts down your argument).

[hjgilber]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Let me know when there is something else to respond to.

You whined and moaned about Hawkins and Almora not being equally rated. I then said because they weren't equal. You responded saying they were, to which I posted the rankings proving you wrong.

You haven't acknowledged you were wrong, you just started swearing, insulting, fabricating and changing the subject. You are showing the level of coherence and truth you are willing to allow from your side of this conversation. You never had any intention of getting the truth, you just came in here fixated on a false opinion and were never going to change it.

I used facts and evidence, and you have chosen to ignore it. Until you change that stance, there is no point for you to keep talking. You lost, get over it bro.

[MrOldboy]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Its been said before, but the overall is not the same for each position. A 90 CF is not the same as a 90 1B. They have different weights given to their different ratings. Take Almora for example. I projected him to be a .285-.295 hitter with maybe 15 home runs. But because his defense is strong he is easily a high 80s CF.

Play around and move guys around and you will see what I mean.

Examples:

Soler
RF to CF 74>71
RF to 2B 74>77
RF to LF 74>73

Baez
SS to 3B 73>71
SS to 2B 73>77
SS to CF 73>72

Almora
CF to LF 68>62
CF to SS 68>70
CF to 1B 68>62

Michael Bourn
CF to RF 91>83
CF to SS 91>93
CF to 1B 91>73

You can see which positions consider defense more and which ones don't. Moving Baez or Soler to 2B makes him a much better offensive player for his position since he is at 2B. Moving Almora to 1B makes him a poorer hitter for his position compared to CF since defense is less important at 1B. Moving Soler to CF makes him a worse player at his position because his defense isn't as great and its probably considered less important for RF's by the game.

Hawkins needs to be rerated, that is already known, as I think he is too low. Especially his contact. Looking at his contact he projects to be a really bad hitter going by Knights tabls. But the constant comparisons with Cubs players is a bit ridiculous. There are much bigger issues with the ratings that I've noticed and I and others in this thread have been trying to get the Cubs accurate and as unbiased as possible.

Read up on how the ratings work in game, the progression system in game, and how the GAME handles things. This was my first year doing OSFM and it took a lot of time just to get a handle on all the details of how the game works. People have said this many many times, but overall does not mean one player is better than the other. A defensive CF could be rated higher than a CF with much better offense. Its how the game handles things and is not indicative of real life.

[hjgilber]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

No, he put up a a sub-.800 OPS in rookie ball and is only 19. He should be higher than Almora by a few points. Almora around a 69, Buxton around a 73.

BA:
Buxton #10
Almora #33

BP:
Buxton #8
Almora #18

KL:
Buxton #22
Almora #33

JS:
Buxton #37
Almora #44


The ranking difference between them isn't much, this is a much closer gap than the one between Almora and Hawkins. You are wrong again.

Re-posting this because I added the ranking comparison, just for you my White Sox friend.

[JoeCoolMan24]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

You whined and moaned about Hawkins and Almora not being equally rated. I then said because they weren't equal. You responded saying they were, to which I posted the rankings proving you wrong.

You haven't acknowledged you were wrong, you just started swearing, insulting, fabricating and changing the subject. You are showing the level of coherence and truth you are willing to allow from your side of this conversation. You never had any intention of getting the truth, you just came in here fixated on a false opinion and were never going to change it.

I used facts and evidence, and you have chosen to ignore it. Until you change that stance, there is no point for you to keep talking. You lost, get over it bro.

Never said they were rated equally, have consistently said Almora was better.

I "started swearing" when I said the S-word. OMG, once.

And you haven't been insulting? Give me a break, you've been insulting me from the beginning. At least MrOldBoy or whoever the other guy was was being civil. You've been nothing but a "butthole" this whole time (I know how much curse words make you feel high and mighty).

But yeah, I'm the one fabricating here. Nice job pointing fingers at others when you refuse to point any at yourself.

[JoeCoolMan24]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

No, he put up a a sub-.800 OPS in rookie ball and is only 19. He should be higher than Almora by a few points. Almora around a 69, Buxton around a 73.

Ok, so all 3 guys are about the same age, all play in the OF. All high RD draft picks drafted a handful of spots away from eachother. Despite being ranked 23 spots higher, Buxton is just a few points higher than Almora. But Hawkins being ranked 22 spots away from Almora is a HUGE gap.

Ok, I got it. It all makes sense now. Can't wait to see this "Top 5 system" to dominate everyone else's franchise. How do I get on the roster ratings board? To piggy back of what someone else said earlier, I think Keon Barnum needs to be a 99. I mean, why not, right?

Peace out, brother, try not to get too sick drinking all that kool-aid.

[jseward92]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Re-posting this because I added the ranking comparison, just for you my White Sox friend.

Haha this disagreement has kept me quite entertained while watching a few MLB games on my laptop. Thanks!!

[hjgilber]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Never said they were rated equally, have consistently said Almora was better.

I "started swearing" when I said the S-word. OMG, once.

And you haven't been insulting? Give me a break, you've been insulting me from the beginning. At least MrOldBoy or whoever the other guy was was being civil. You've been nothing but a "butthole" this whole time (I know how much curse words make you feel high and mighty).

But yeah, I'm the one fabricating here. Nice job pointing fingers at others when you refuse to point any at yourself.

Prove it, quote my insults. Also, please stay on topic. Respond to the statements. You asked why Almora should be so much higher, I gave evidence. You still haven't responded to it.

Also, you said you thought Almora and Hawkins should be 2 points apart, when that is way too small of a gap.

[hjgilber]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Ok, so all 3 guys are about the same age, all play in the OF. All high RD draft picks drafted a handful of spots away from eachother. Despite being ranked 23 spots higher, Buxton is just a few points higher than Almora. But Hawkins being ranked 22 spots away from Almora is a HUGE gap.

Ok, I got it. It all makes sense now. Can't wait to see this "Top 5 system" to dominate everyone else's franchise. How do I get on the roster ratings board? To piggy back of what someone else said earlier, I think Keon Barnum needs to be a 99. I mean, why not, right?

Peace out, brother, try not to get too sick drinking all that kool-aid.

You keep talking about the BA ranking, and ignoring all the others that show a more complete story.

Also, I don't know if you really understand the draft and as I said earlier the massive difference in ROI between a top 5-6 pick, and a top 15 pick. Do some research, it's an enormous difference.

[hjgilber]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Funny thing in all of this is how I am being accused of being a Cubs kool-aid drinker, when I have suggested that Almora and Soler need to be rated lower and Hawkins needs to be rated higher.


I would have it as:

Baez 74
Soler 72
Buxton 71
Almora 68
Hawkins 60

ETA: Changed ratings slightly, to adjust for ETA.

[MrOldboy]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Re-posting this because I added the ranking comparison, just for you my White Sox friend.

The thing you need to consider though is their ETA to ceiling.

I don't know what Buxton's projected ETA should be, but skimming some reports I feel Almora might have a closer ETA than Buxton has. Although since Buxton is probably an A- potential (not sure on exact potential) their ETAs are probably pretty close to each other.

Almora 68-89 (21 pts)
Buxton 73-91 to 93 (18-20 pts)

But this might mean Buxton's progression is a bit too fast.

[hjgilber]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

The thing you need to consider though is their ETA to ceiling.

I don't know what Buxton's projected ETA should be, but skimming some reports I feel Almora might have a closer ETA than Buxton has. Although since Buxton is probably an A potential (not sure on exact potential) their ETAs are probably pretty close to each other.

Almora 68-89 (21 pts)
Buxton 73-95 (22 pts)

I realize that, the ratings you just showed are basically exactly what I have suggested.

[MrOldboy]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

I realize that, the ratings you just showed are basically exactly what I have suggested.

I looked a little more closely and I think Buxton was given an A- potential. Given that his MLB ETA seems around 2015-16 I think Buxton is actually a bit too high. Although not much. He's probably fine where he is, maybe a bit fast to reach his 91-93 ceiling if he is an A-. But his ETA might be closer than the Cubs players Almora, Baez and Soler so he might be right on track as I'm not that familiar with Buxton.

[abacusand13south]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

This threads been very entertaining and somewhat informative. Though hes not in the same class all around as those being discussed, how do you think Tyler Naquin of the Indians compares ratings wise? Hes projected (BA) to be the first college bat from the 2012 draft to reach the majors and is only a 57 as a college player. Just curious.

[jseward92]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

This threads been very entertaining and somewhat informative. Though hes not in the same class all around as those being discussed, how do you think Tyler Naquin of the Indians compares ratings wise? Hes projected (BA) to be the first college bat from the 2012 draft to reach the majors and is only a 57 as a college player. Just curious.

I saw he was a B- potential? I think Almora should be a 67, Hawkins a 62 and bump up Naquin to say a 59. He doesn't hit for power but if he could start you could see him in the same class as some of the upper end guys. Didn't hear that he was suppose to be the first college bat from that draft in the majors. What is his ETA. Just looking at his stats and what not I would say he might be in the bigs by 2015 at the earliest. Could be dead wrong as I don't know a whole lot about the guy.