Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Dude... he needs a lot of work because he's only JUST turned 21!

As good as Santana is, he is NOT worth THAT amount of talent on TOP OF the $150M he is likely to demand.

Which means he is far from a sure thing. The Sox have the luxury of not having to sit around and pray their youngest prospects develop like many other teams have to do. He could just as well develop into a fringe pitcher who dumps the ball over the plate and prays as he could a frontline starter. There's probably a better chance of the former happening. Guys like Lester and Buchholz are one thing but Bowden is far from being as close as they are if he ever is.

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I am guessing this would be the best offer we would get. I can't really see this going on for too much longer, as no other team seems to be interested. It wouldn't kill me to see Santana in a Red Sox uniform since I enjoy watching them play. It will be really strange not having a definite top of the rotation pitcher for the next couple years.

I suppose that depends on how well Liriano bounces back. He sure looked like the real deal before the injury...

[eXperiment63]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Bowden has better control than Lester at this point, in case you didn't already know that.

Bowden also has the SAME EXACT pitches as Buchholz. He and Buchholz are VERY similar. While Buchholz needs to work on his fastball command, Bowden needs to work on his breaking stuff command.

You don't seem to know much about Bowden. Bowden pounds the strikezone with heavy sink on every pitch he throws. Strikes out about a batter per inning, and doesn't walk very many. Allowed 10HR in 143IP, and only walked 41 batters. He is VERY much far along in his dveelopment considering his age. His issue is that he throws TOO many good strikes on counts he could throw a ball. That is something that comes with experience.

Oh yea... he had a 3.4ERA post all-star game. He had a rough June, rest of his year was good.

[boston_sports_rule]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I still think Yankees offer the best prospect with a higher ceiling (Hughes) but the Red Sox offer is more complete for the Twins. They would get 3 major league starters for next year. They let Masterson develop. Anyone know if the Sox have to eat some Coco's contract.

[eXperiment63]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I agree that Hughes is the best player offered to them yet, but I also agree the sox 4-1 deal is the best complete offer to them regarding their needs.

Major League CF, Major League SP, VERY close 3B/SS/2B, and a SP who is a year or two away.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Bowden has better control than Lester at this point, in case you didn't already know that.

Bowden also has the SAME EXACT pitches as Buchholz. He and Buchholz are VERY similar. While Buchholz needs to work on his fastball command, Bowden needs to work on his breaking stuff command.

You don't seem to know much about Bowden. Bowden pounds the strikezone with heavy sink on every pitch he throws. Strikes out about a batter per inning, and doesn't walk very many. Allowed 10HR in 143IP, and only walked 41 batters. He is VERY much far along in his dveelopment considering his age. His issue is that he throws TOO many good strikes on counts he could throw a ball. That is something that comes with experience.

Oh yea... he had a 3.4ERA post all-star game. He had a rough June, rest of his year was good.

And yet Buchholz and Lester are now major league caliber pitchers while Bowden needs a few more years in the minors. One of the reasons for that is because Buchholtz has right now two plus quality major league pitches, his curve and change. Bowden just doesn't have those. He may throw a change, and a curve, and a slider, and a two-seamer in addition to his four-seamer but they're just not Buchholz quality. Maybe he will have that some day but he doesn't right now and there's a huge difference between projecting a guy from single-A ball and a guy who has some MLB experience. Also, Lester is a lefty and just doesn't need to have the same quality stuff to be equally as effective as a right-hander. Keeping Bowden in hopes that he becomes one of the better starters in the league in a few years when you could have the best starter in the league for the next 6-7 years is kind of nutty.

[ehh]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

A) You need one when 60% of your starting rotation is made up of rookies (they shouldn't go more than 160-170 innings either if you want them to last). Sure you can win without a legit ace but there is no excuse for a team with as many resources as the Yankees not having one.

B) Life after next year will include Santana. The guy is still in his 20s and one of the best two or three overall starting pitchers in the game AND he has no significant injury history. Getting him isn't just about 2008, it's about the next 5-6 years. In baseball, that's pretty much long term.

Your response to A is simply your opinion that you need one if you have 3 rooks in the rotation. And it's not like ace pitchers grow on trees and the Yankees should have one because of their resources. Hell, Pavano was suppose to be one and he was a total dud. Nothing has worked out for us in terms of acquiring pitchers from other teams in recent memory.

As for B, I was referring to the Yanks' situation if they didn't acquire Santana. In 5-6 years Hughes can easily be an ace and one of the best pitchers in baseball and much cheaper plus we will have held on to Kennedy. I would not be surprised if Hughes was a better pitcher in 2011 than Santana. Then you have Hughes who's still 25 vs Santana who'll be 33.

Teams are always remembered for the bad trades they make, not the ones they didn't make. Plus, Santana still scares me long-term. He's a small guy who pitched a ton of innings in his 20's. He could be another Pedro Martinez, burned out by 32. I probably shouldn't be scared, but after the Yankees' lack of success with FA pitchers since '02 I would be skeptical about them signing Sandy Koufax.

[snepp]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Hughes can easily be an ace and one of the best pitchers in baseball and much cheaper plus we will have held on to Kennedy.

You made alot of good points in that post, with the exception of this. Being cheaper is a good argument for a team with a limited budget, but when you basically have a blank check it's moot.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Your response to A is simply your opinion that you need one if you have 3 rooks in the rotation. And it's not like ace pitchers grow on trees and the Yankees should have one because of their resources. Hell, Pavano was suppose to be one and he was a total dud. Nothing has worked out for us in terms of acquiring pitchers from other teams in recent memory.

As for B, I was referring to the Yanks' situation if they didn't acquire Santana. In 5-6 years Hughes can easily be an ace and one of the best pitchers in baseball and much cheaper plus we will have held on to Kennedy. I would not be surprised if Hughes was a better pitcher in 2011 than Santana. Then you have Hughes who's still 25 vs Santana who'll be 33.

Teams are always remembered for the bad trades they make, not the ones they didn't make. Plus, Santana still scares me long-term. He's a small guy who pitched a ton of innings in his 20's. He could be another Pedro Martinez, burned out by 32. I probably shouldn't be scared, but after the Yankees' lack of success with FA pitchers since '02 I would be skeptical about them signing Sandy Koufax.

People around here have a lot of confidence in pitching prospects developing to their peak potential. I think Buchholz and Chamberlain look like they have the best raw stuff of all the guys mentioned and both will stick at the ML level but can I say for sure that either will end up being a staff ace grade pitcher? No. Ditto for Lester and for Hughes who I think will be above average but has a better shot at ending up in that second tier of starters than the first.

Regarding Point A, I'm talking specifically about the Yankees situation in 2008. They are in desperate need of pitching help if they want to go anywhere. Sure they have 5 guys lined up right now but three of them had better not be throwing more than 160 innings if the Yanks plan on easing their arms into a MLB starter's workload. Aces don't grow on trees of course, but you have one who could quite easily right now in his prime and under age 30 and the difference is apparently Ian Kennedy??? Fine, let the Sox take Santana and the division for the next couple years. I'll be thrilled.

[snepp]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

It appears the Angels are getting into talks with the Twins now.

[boston_sports_rule]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Well the Angels could put up an offer that is better than both Yankees and Red Sox.

[snepp]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Sorry about not having a link before.

http://www.beloblog.com/ProJo_Blogs/..._angels_j.html

[boston_sports_rule]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

I was just looking at the ESPN blog. The Twins really do have decision to make with the Red Sox. Sox still have the Ellsbury package on the table along with the Crisp and Lester package. It is up to the the Twins to decide with package they want.

[Sandman42]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Looks like Cashman is still sticking by his last offer of Hughes/Cabrera/Marquez/Gonzalez. He still says that he's not willing to trade Horne, Kennedy, or Jackson.

[bergie56]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Sorry about not having a link before.

http://www.beloblog.com/ProJo_Blogs/..._angels_j.html

LaVelle E Neal reported in either his blog or an .mp3 on the Star Tribune's website that Santana reportedly would not waive his no trade clause to go to the West coast. Have you heard if this has changed? Did Santana have a decent relationship with Hunter? I don't recal hearing anything about them, but it would certainly help if they did.

[ckarlic]

Re: Don't be surprised if Johan Santana is a Yankee before the season gets underway.

Looks like Cashman is still sticking by his last offer of Hughes/Cabrera/Marquez/Gonzalez. He still says that he's not willing to trade Horne, Kennedy, or Jackson.

Good for Cashman!!! Keep it at that. Its that or nothing.