Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

[DrJones]

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

For a second there I thought you were talking about Jim Rice. Once Rice gets voted in next year the door is going to be wide open for borderline candidates. Chipper looks like an absolute lock in comparison. A better hitter (better rate stats and equal to or better counting stats), a better defender (at a more difficult position and no DH'ing), and a superior baserunner to top it off.

Yup. If Rice had been a switch-hitting 3B with identical numbers, he'd have made the Hall on the first ballot.

[sportsdude]

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

For a second there I thought you were talking about Jim Rice. Once Rice gets voted in next year the door is going to be wide open for borderline candidates. Chipper looks like an absolute lock in comparison. A better hitter (better rate stats and equal to or better counting stats), a better defender (at a more difficult position and no DH'ing), and a superior baserunner to top it off.

well, I was kinda referring to Rice as I don't think he should be in the hall as well, but let's not get into that in this thread. The discussion about Rice has its own thread.

My position is that right now, Jones isn't a Hall of Famer. My position could easily change depending on what he does in the last years of his career.

[maverick3176]

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

This is sillyof course Chipper is HOF right now
compare Chipper to Gerog Brett. Chipper has a higher career average and more homers and has played in far fewer games....within 2 years he will pass him in runs scored and RBI.
RBI
Jones has 9 100 Rbi season, brett has 4, Chippers career high is

Homers
brett has 8 20homer seasons, chipper has 13, brett has 0 40 homer seasons chipper has 1. Brett has 1 30 homer season, Chipper has 6. Chippers career high was 45, Brett was 30

Runs scored
Brett has 4 100 run seasons, Chipper has 8. Chippers career high was 123, Bretts was 119

Avg
Brett has 11 .300 seasons, Chipper has 9, but has played in 8 fewer season than Brett so far.


Chipper has gone 20-20, brett never did that.

Here is a breakdown of career highs and career averages

G Ab H HR RBI R SB OBP SLG AVG
Career highs
Brett 157 645 212 30 118 119 23 .454 .684 .390
Jones 160 601 189 45 111 123 25 .441 .633 .337
Lifetime averages
brett 141 543 166 17 84 84 11 .369 .487 .305
Jones 157 582 176 32 108 108 11 .403 .546 .307


Brett Jones
All-star appearance 13 5
MVP 1(2x runnerup) 1(5x top 10)
ROY 2nd runnerup runnerup(Nomo won)
silvr slugger 3 2
gold glove 1 0
WS appearances 2 3
Championships 1 1
Post season team record 3-6 10-10

The numbers speak for themselves...if chipper stopped playing today he would have better credentials than brett. ironically enough Chippers first year (93) was Bretts last year.

I will take this argument a step further. Chipper is one of the TOP 4 Thirdbasemen of all-time.

Mathews, Schmidt, A-rod, Chipper, Brett, Robinson.
If I am wrong tell m who has had a better career at 3b. In my opinion if you are one of the top 4 in your position in he history of the game then you should be in the HOF. To me this is not even a legit question. A better question would be is Scott Rolen going to the HOF he is much more borderline...chipper is a first ballot unamious decision. Anyone whothinks otherwise just doesnt know baseball imo

[Brandon13]

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

For what it's worth Peter Gammons called Chipper "one of the most underrated great players in baseball," and a "no doubt first ballot Hall of Famer," during the Dodgers-Braves telecast today.

[Mr.Wednesday]

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

For what it's worth Peter Gammons called Chipper "one of the most underrated great players in baseball," and a "no doubt first ballot Hall of Famer," during the Dodgers-Braves telecast today.

Yea, I saw that. I thought about this thread when I heard that comment. I'm not a big Gammons fan. He's been wrong more than once. But, he does have a pretty good pulse on how HOF voters feel. Something to think about, considering Gammons has a vote himself.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Making a case for a player to be in the hall of fame based on other players who are/aren't in the Hall already is one of the dumbest things you can do.

[Brandon13]

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Making a case for a player to be in the hall of fame based on other players who are/aren't in the Hall already is one of the dumbest things you can do.

While about when you use a stat such as OPS+ to compare players at the same position across eras?

[dkgojackets]

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

While about when you use a stat such as OPS+ to compare players at the same position across eras?

This doesn't make sense.

[Brandon13]

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

This doesn't make sense.

Let me type it correctly this time:

What about using a stat such as OPS+ to compare players who played the same position but played in different eras to judge their Hall of Fame candidacy?

[dkgojackets]

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Let me type it correctly this time:

What about using a stat such as OPS+ to compare players who played the same position but played in different eras to judge their Hall of Fame candidacy?

OPS+ is a fine way to compare the offense of players. I'm just saying that arguments like "Player A is better than Player B and Player B is in the HOF, therefore A should be in" or contrarily "Player A is worse than Player B and B isn't in the HOF, therefore A shouldn't be in" are worthless.

This isn't even directly against Brett, who leads Jones by over 42 wins of WARP3 and should be in the HOF (which is why I said Chipper needs to put together a couple more great seasons), just a general comment.

[Brandon13]

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

OPS+ is a fine way to compare the offense of players. I'm just saying that arguments like "Player A is better than Player B and Player B is in the HOF, therefore A should be in" or contrarily "Player A is worse than Player B and B isn't in the HOF, therefore A shouldn't be in" are worthless.

This isn't even directly against Brett, who leads Jones by over 42 wins of WARP3 and should be in the HOF (which is why I said Chipper needs to put together a couple more great seasons), just a general comment.

I don't know how much this means but I took the average WARP3 of all the HOF third basemen and it came out to 109.99. Chipper is currently at 91.5. So if Chipper were to have four average to below-average seasons (for him anyway) he would pass 109.99. Three or four great seasons and he blows by it.

And I just looked and surprisingly, to me anyway, Scott Rolen already has a higher WARP3 than Chipper does at 96.5.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Again, making a decision based on whos already in is dumb. I haven't checked a list of 3B in the hall of fame yet, but there are probably several that are borderline at best. Making a mistake and letting some guy in undeservingly shouldn't open the gates for a bunch of other good but not all-time great players.

[TheLetterZ]

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Again, making a decision based on whos already in is dumb. I haven't checked a list of 3B in the hall of fame yet, but there are probably several that are borderline at best. Making a mistake and letting some guy in undeservingly shouldn't open the gates for a bunch of other good but not all-time great players.

Then compare him to all 3rd basemen to ever play the game. He's right up near the top.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

He will be after 3 or so solid years, which is what I've said several times.

[ty5oke]

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Bringing this thread back up top. If you heard what Peter Gammons just said about Chipper on the ESPN broadcast tonight, I don't think anyone can doubt he's a lock already.