Chipper Jones a HOF'er? - Operation Sports Forums

Hey everyone, just wanted to let you all know OS now has an official Discord that you can join right now. We’ve kicked around Discords for individual games in the past, but it felt like the right time to make it more of an official thing.

Steve and I have wanted to get this going for a bit because we obviously still hear from y’all who are unhappy with some stuff on the forums, plus when there are forum outages we still want to have a place for everyone to hang. My overarching goal for the longer term is to have both Discord and the forums ultimately work together. There are some logistical issues with the vBulletin forums that don’t allow things to sync right with Discord so there will be a little maneuvering as we try to get mods and forum members any proper roles/tags they need on the Discord, but we can work through that stuff easily enough as people join.

Our general goal is to give people more options to interact with OS community members, whether that’s Discord, the forums, this newsletter, or improved apps. If people want to stick more to the forums, that’s cool. If people want to stick more to the Discord, that’s also cool. In my perfect world, we do a lot of BSing and day-to-day chatting on the Discord about games and sports, and then more of the “in-depth” discussions or hefty things like long slider breakdowns or analysis of gameplay end up on the forums so that can act as a sort of “best of” area for anything OS community related. That said, you all will ultimately shape how the ecosystem shakes out, I just want to give you spaces you like so you can have a good time with other folks in the community.

The same general rules will apply on the Discord as they do on the forums, and we’ve brought most of the forum categories to the Discord as well so there should not be too much confusion as you navigate around.

With the Operation Sports and Discord announcement now out there, it’s also worth mentioning our OS premium newsletter, which quietly launched a couple of weeks ago. Built off the Not Just Another Roster Update newsletter, it offers a mix of retrospectives, guides, interviews and deeper dives into the sports gaming world—covering both current and classic titles.

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Sportsforever

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#91

08-11-2012, 11:52 PM

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

So I went back and re-read this thread...holy ignorance batman. I can't believe how many people had him as 'not a lock/not good enough' even in 2008. What's funny is on the first page someone talks about him getting to 2500+ hits, 450-500 homers, and 1500 RBI and the general response was "ya, I guess if he gets those he's in". He's exceeded those.

With the lack of 3B in the HOF, how anyone could not think he's in is beyond me. The guy is in Schmidt/Brett territory.

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Sportsforever

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#92

08-12-2012, 12:17 AM

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Another thing I noticed looking at Chipper's stats...in his 19 years in the bigs he has NEVER posted an OPS+ of below 100. IOW, he has never been below average ONCE in his career (his lowest was 2004 at 116). Not many players can claim that (guys like Ruth/Bonds are some of the few who can).

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Chip Douglass

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#93

08-12-2012, 12:52 AM

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Originally posted by TheMatrix31

McGriff not being in the HOF is ridiculous.

It's ridiculous in the sense that if he hit 7 more HRs, he would be in the HOF.

Objectively speaking, he's a borderline candidate.

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p_rushing

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#94

08-12-2012, 01:07 AM

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

You also have to look at it from a switch hitter, he is one of if not the best in MLB
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SPTO

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#95

08-12-2012, 01:50 AM

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Originally posted by ty5oke

Keep in mind.. He's a switch hitter

I think he'll end up with 2500+ hits, 450-500 HR, 1500+ RBI's

That says HOF to me..MVP and 8 times voted top 11 for MVP

Well it's been ages (BTW i'm kinda ashamed that I was so dismissive of him in '08) but now seeing that he's reached those numbers he's a 1st ballot HOFer

I admit my mistake in being so cavalier about him.

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lonewolf371

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#96

08-12-2012, 09:33 AM

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Originally posted by p_rushing

You also have to look at it from a switch hitter, he is one of if not the best in MLB

What does that have to do with it? Just get on base or put the ball in play. Guys that do those two things get in the Hall of Fame.

Chipper Jones is a lock. An example of a guy that's borderline is Scott Rolen. Yes, he may not quite have the offensive numbers, but he's up there among the best defensive third basemen to ever play the game. That doesn't get as much respect in getting into the HoF, though.

Last edited by lonewolf371; 08-12-2012, 09:36 AM.

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Chip Douglass

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#97

08-12-2012, 11:17 PM

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Originally posted by lonewolf371

An example of a guy that's borderline is Scott Rolen. Yes, he may not quite have the offensive numbers, but he's up there among the best defensive third basemen to ever play the game. That doesn't get as much respect in getting into the HoF, though.

In terms of objective analysis, I don't think he's borderline. Rolen is probably a top 10 third baseman in the history of the game - he's 9th in WAR among third baseman all-time (throwing out A-Rod).

He will have trouble getting in though since counting stats, superlatives, and, lacking both, personal popularity are the largest predictors for getting HOF votes and Rolen comes up short in all three areas: well short of 500 HRs/3,000 hits and only finished top 5 in MVP voting once. Basically the Bobby Grich/Lou Whitaker of third basemen in the sense that players who derive a good chunk of their value from defense are very easily overlooked. And he already plays at a position that is vastly underrepresented in the HOF to boot.

Last edited by Chip Douglass; 08-12-2012, 11:22 PM.

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p_rushing

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#98

08-13-2012, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by lonewolf371

What does that have to do with it? Just get on base or put the ball in play. Guys that do those two things get in the Hall of Fame.

It makes his hitting numbers look even better. Switch hitters don't get the same look from pitchers and they also can have issues with their swings switching back and forth. His numbers are close to #1 in most categories for switch hitters.

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jth1331

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#99

08-13-2012, 10:14 AM

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Originally posted by p_rushing

It makes his hitting numbers look even better. Switch hitters don't get the same look from pitchers and they also can have issues with their swings switching back and forth. His numbers are close to #1 in most categories for switch hitters.

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Honestly, the whole switch hitting does not increase Chipper's value to me.

Anyways, if we want to talk about candidates, what about Todd Helton.

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SPTO

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#100

08-13-2012, 10:22 AM

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Originally posted by jth1331

Anyways, if we want to talk about candidates, what about Todd Helton.

Like it or not there's going to be a bias against him because he's played his career at Coors and well...His numbers don't bode well for him if you look at the splits

HOME

.350/.447/.613 1.060 OPS 216 HRs, 816 RBI

ROAD

.289/.389/.475 .864 OPS 138 HRs, 529 RBI

So he's not a HOFer in my books.

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Chip Douglass

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#101

08-13-2012, 08:07 PM

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Originally posted by jth1331

Anyways, if we want to talk about candidates, what about Todd Helton.

<iframe src="http://www.fangraphs.com/graphframe.aspx?config=0&static=0&type=graphsw&num =1&h=450&w=450&players=1002288,1297,432,1005706,29 3,1093,1002318" style="border:1px solid black;" frameborder="0" height="450" scrolling="no" width="450"></iframe>
Source: FanGraphs -- Fred McGriff, Todd Helton, John Olerud

Not really any difference between Helton and a bunch of other borderline first basemen once you take park into account. And 1B is an overrepresented position in the HOF to begin with.

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lonewolf371

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#102

08-13-2012, 08:10 PM

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Originally posted by SPTO

Like it or not there's going to be a bias against him because he's played his career at Coors and well...His numbers don't bode well for him if you look at the splits

HOME

.350/.447/.613 1.060 OPS 216 HRs, 816 RBI

ROAD

.289/.389/.475 .864 OPS 138 HRs, 529 RBI

So he's not a HOFer in my books.

Not many people are running around and discounting players from Yankee Stadium.

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SPTO

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#103

08-13-2012, 11:52 PM

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Originally posted by lonewolf371

Not many people are running around and discounting players from Yankee Stadium.

Yes well Old Yankee Stadium wasn't a launching pad like the current park is now.

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lonewolf371

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#104

08-14-2012, 07:07 AM

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Originally posted by SPTO

Yes well Old Yankee Stadium wasn't a launching pad like the current park is now.

Apparently you're right. Kinda weird considering how they're supposed to have the same dimensions.

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NYJets

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#105

08-14-2012, 08:41 AM

Re: Chipper Jones a HOF'er?

Originally posted by lonewolf371

Apparently you're right. Kinda weird considering how they're supposed to have the same dimensions.

They aren't. Right field in the new stadium is shorter in the area with the manual scoreboard in the wall. Old Yankee Stadium the wall curved out. New Yankee Stadium it's straight and closer. The wall is also a couple feet shorter height wise.

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