Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

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  • Chip Douglass
    Hall Of Fame
    • Dec 2005
    • 12256

    #661
    Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

    <iframe src="http://www.fangraphs.com/graphframe.aspx?config=0&static=632202&type=graphs w&num=2&h=450&w=450&players=548,432" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" height="450" width = "450" style="border:1px solid black;"></iframe><br /><span style="font-size:9pt;">Source: <a href="http://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?players=548,432&wg=2">FanGraphs</a> -- <a href="http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=432&position=1B">Todd Helton</a>, <a href="http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=548&position=1B">Lance Berkman</a></span>

    <iframe src="http://www.fangraphs.com/graphframe.aspx?config=0&static=632217&type=graphs w&num=1&h=450&w=450&players=432,548" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" height="450" width = "450" style="border:1px solid black;"></iframe><br /><span style="font-size:9pt;">Source: <a href="http://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?players=432,548&wg=1">FanGraphs</a> -- <a href="http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=432&position=1B">Todd Helton</a>, <a href="http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=548&position=1B">Lance Berkman</a></span>

    Yeah, I'd say they're pretty similar. Both were very good, very patient hitters who played in hitter-friendly parks for most of their careers. The differences wash out: Helton's offensive rate stats (park-adjusted) are somewhat worse than Berkman's, but he's accumulated 1500 more PAs. Berkman has a much worse glove, but he's played tougher defensive positions.

    Given how over-represented 1B and the corner outfield positions are already in the HOF, I'd lean toward no on both of them.
    Last edited by Chip Douglass; 08-21-2013, 07:09 PM.
    I write things on the Internet.

    Comment

    • WaitTilNextYear
      Go Cubs Go
      • Mar 2013
      • 16830

      #662
      Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

      Brian Giles anyone?

      or how about Norm Cash?
      Last edited by WaitTilNextYear; 08-21-2013, 07:29 PM.
      Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan Wolverines

      Comment

      • 55
        Banned
        • Mar 2006
        • 20857

        #663
        Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

        Originally posted by WaitTilNextYear
        Brian Giles anyone?

        or how about Norm Cash?
        No and no, respectively.

        Comment

        • G3no_11
          MVP
          • Oct 2012
          • 1110

          #664
          Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

          Brian Giles..

          I think he should deserve some consideration, I just don't think he makes it in because of a lack of really dominating numbers. He was a very solid and very underrated player. His BB:K is pretty amazing. He just never really had that HOF type peak or put up enough counting stats to get in. Playing in PetCo Park a good chunk of his career didn't help him out either.
          Denver Broncos
          Colorado Rockies
          Denver Nuggets

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          • DamnYanks2
            Hall Of Fame
            • Jun 2007
            • 20794

            #665
            Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

            No on Giles.

            Adrian Beltre? I say yes, I think his defense gets him in, but he could still use a few more years.

            Comment

            • 55
              Banned
              • Mar 2006
              • 20857

              #666
              Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

              Beltre is going to get in at some point. He's got 70ish WAR and probably has 3-4 years left in him.

              Comment

              • AC
                Win the East
                • Sep 2010
                • 14951

                #667
                Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                Beltre is one giant yes for me.
                "Twelve at-bats is a pretty decent sample size." - Eric Byrnes

                Comment

                • Chip Douglass
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Dec 2005
                  • 12256

                  #668
                  Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                  Originally posted by WaitTilNextYear
                  Brian Giles anyone?

                  or how about Norm Cash?
                  No on both.

                  Glancing at Cash's stats, I'm pretty sure Norm Cash had the most random career year in MLB history in 1961 when he put up a .361/.487/.662, 1.148 OPS, 201 OPS+ line with a 10.2 WAR. What makes the year "random" is that he did not even remotely come close to these numbers the rest of his career. His 2nd highest OPS was roughly 250 points below his career mark, his OPS+ 52 points, his batting average 75 points, his OBP 85 points, his SLG% 131 points, etc. His 2nd best season in WAR was a little under half of that of his 1961 peak.

                  Originally posted by DamnYanks2
                  Adrian Beltre? I say yes, I think his defense gets him in, but he could still use a few more years.
                  Definitely worthy, but he very well could become the next Ron Santo.
                  I write things on the Internet.

                  Comment

                  • Sportsforever
                    NL MVP
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 20368

                    #669
                    Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                    Originally posted by Chip Douglass
                    No on both.

                    Glancing at Cash's stats, I'm pretty sure Norm Cash had the most random career year in MLB history in 1961 when he put up a .361/.487/.662, 1.148 OPS, 201 OPS+ line with a 10.2 WAR. What makes the year "random" is that he did not even remotely come close to these numbers the rest of his career. His 2nd highest OPS was roughly 250 points below his career mark, his OPS+ 52 points, his batting average 75 points, his OBP 85 points, his SLG% 131 points, etc. His 2nd best season in WAR was a little under half of that of his 1961 peak.



                    Definitely worthy, but he very well could become the next Ron Santo.
                    Norm Cash has fully admitted that he played the entire 1961 season with a corked bat...now, I know since it has been proven to be a placebo effect more than anything, but I can't help but think it had something to do with it. The expansion in the AL that year also killed pitching and there were a lot of big offensive years (see Don Gentile for the O's and of course Mantle/Maris).
                    "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

                    Comment

                    • WaitTilNextYear
                      Go Cubs Go
                      • Mar 2013
                      • 16830

                      #670
                      Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                      Originally posted by Chip Douglass
                      Definitely worthy, but he very well could become the next Ron Santo.
                      Not unless he retires after this season or falls off dramatically.



                      Any fans of Matt Williams for HoF? I realize he's already off the ballot.
                      Last edited by WaitTilNextYear; 08-22-2013, 01:23 AM.
                      Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan Wolverines

                      Comment

                      • DamnYanks2
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Jun 2007
                        • 20794

                        #671
                        Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                        Originally posted by ACMilan99
                        http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index...e=box&c_id=tor

                        I went to that one, not to get off topic. Absolutely amazing game. Brent Tallet went out as a Blue Jay in miraculous fashion. I'm gonna miss Bernard Tallet. (Cito never knew his name lol). That was a fun night. As Bailey Tallet said, balls to the wall lmao.



                        Aaaaaaaabsolutely not. But that's cause I'm a JP Ricciardi-era Jays fan.
                        Where were you sitting AC? I was upper deck kind of diagonal to home plate, if I remember correct. That's crazy.

                        Comment

                        • AC
                          Win the East
                          • Sep 2010
                          • 14951

                          #672
                          Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                          Originally posted by DamnYanks2
                          Where were you sitting AC? I was upper deck kind of diagonal to home plate, if I remember correct. That's crazy.
                          Oh wow, you were there? I was along the 3B line.
                          "Twelve at-bats is a pretty decent sample size." - Eric Byrnes

                          Comment

                          • WaitTilNextYear
                            Go Cubs Go
                            • Mar 2013
                            • 16830

                            #673
                            Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                            Thurman Munson? Please discuss..
                            Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan Wolverines

                            Comment

                            • AC
                              Win the East
                              • Sep 2010
                              • 14951

                              #674
                              Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                              Originally posted by WaitTilNextYear
                              Thurman Munson? Please discuss..
                              He's a no for me.
                              "Twelve at-bats is a pretty decent sample size." - Eric Byrnes

                              Comment

                              • DamnYanks2
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Jun 2007
                                • 20794

                                #675
                                Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                                Originally posted by ACMilan99
                                Oh wow, you were there? I was along the 3B line.
                                Yep, I went to a game the day before too. Blosox won that one though.

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