Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

At the same time, I wouldn't be shocked if he got in.

I would. David Cone and Kevin Brown were at least as good as Oswalt (better IMO), and both disappeared after one ballot. Unless Oswalt turns into age 35+ Roger Clemens, he's got no shot.

[55]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Here's an interesting name that hasn't been thrown out yet: Bobby Grich.

Fell off the ballot in his first year of eligibility with 2.6% of the vote in 1992.

That's a guy that pretty much everyone forgets about.

I'm in shock that he fell off after one year (or perhaps not considering the state of the BBWAA in 1992) and that he was that good. Dude was fantastic at getting on base and playing defense and was for a long time. Never had an OBP under .354 after his cup of coffee and a positive defensive WAR all but once in 17 years.

I'm not saying he should have gotten in, but he definitely deserved to be on the ballot longer.

[AC]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

At first I thought it was shocking that Grich didn't get in, but he had a .266 average with 224 HRs and 864 RBI. Unsurprising he didn't get voted in. It's a shame though, because he's put up some damn fine numbers that are actually worth a damn.

[G3no_11]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I would. David Cone and Kevin Brown were at least as good as Oswalt (better IMO), and both disappeared after one ballot. Unless Oswalt turns into age 35+ Roger Clemens, he's got no shot.

No shot is a stretch. I wouldn't vote him in myself though.

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

No shot is a stretch. I wouldn't vote him in myself though.

Not a stretch at all. Take a look at David Cone's career (1 Cy Young, 5 World Series rings, a perfect game, more wins/K's than Oswalt, played on high-profile Mets & Yankees teams). He received 3.9% of the vote and was gone after one ballot. If you can think of why the BBWAA is going to give Oswalt any more consideration than Cone, I'd like to hear it.

[55]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Not a stretch at all. Take a look at David Cone's career (1 Cy Young, 5 World Series rings, a perfect game, more wins/K's than Oswalt, played on high-profile Mets & Yankees teams). He received 3.9% of the vote and was gone after one ballot. If you can think of why the BBWAA is going to give Oswalt any more consideration than Cone, I'd like to hear it.

Because he's worn a Rockies uniform, of course!

[G3no_11]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Because he's worn a Rockies uniform, of course!

I don't care about a player who has played 3 career games in a Rockies uniform, only to lose all 3 outings and have an ERA in the 7's.

I never said anything about him being better than anyone. I don't know why people feel like they have to make assumptions and/or put words in my mouth to make a point.

He had a great career and it wouldn't shock me if he got in, especially due to the steroid era players that will be on the ballot with him.

[55]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I don't care about a player who has played 3 career games in a Rockies uniform...

He's had 4 starts so far, actually.

[AC]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

How about Manny Ramirez?

[G3no_11]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

He's had 4 starts so far, actually.

Ah yeah. Forgot about his last start where he pulled his hammy in like the 3rd inning. The point was that he's hardly played in a Rockies uniform at all.

[G3no_11]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

How about Manny Ramirez?

If you forget that he took steroids, then yes, I would definitely vote him in.

[DrJones]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I never said anything about him being better than anyone. I don't know why people feel like they have to make assumptions and/or put words in my mouth to make a point.

He had a great career and it wouldn't shock me if he got in, especially due to the steroid era players that will be on the ballot with him.

The only assumptions I make are about how the BBWAA works. If you look at past election results, they're pretty easy to figure out. Oswalt has 166 wins, fewer than 2000 K, no hardware, no "narrative". He'll be ignored by traditional guys, given a round of applause by sabermetric types, but they'll say he didn't pitch enough innings or have a strong enough peak to vote for. I'm not arguing about whether or not Oswalt is worthy, only whether the BBWAA will consider him. They won't. One and done.

Unlike Oswalt, Johan Santana will at least merit some debate because he had an exceptional peak. He'll likely stick around for a few ballots, but he won't make it, either.

[AC]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

given a round of applause by sabermetric types, but they'll say he didn't pitch enough innings or have a strong enough peak to vote for.

Pretty much this. Had a semi-long, very good career, but simply wasn't dominating enough.

[55]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

How about Manny Ramirez?

Absolute lock. One of the best right-handed hitters I've ever seen.

Top 10 all-time in career OPS:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...g_career.shtml

31st all-time in offensive WAR:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...f_career.shtml

PEDs be damned, this guy could flat out hit and he did it at a high level for a very long time.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Manny Ramirez isn't even in question. Signed, sealed, delivered first ballot. Well, if people can get over the drugs ****.