Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

[AC]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Me too, I went to this game.

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090630&content_id=5618964

Boy, was I treated to a gem at my first game at Camden Yards. I became a Nick Markakis fan overnight. And was a diehard Orioles fan for the night lol, I pulled so hard for them against the Red Sox, and for them to come back from nine runs down!! That was insane. I let Papelbon have it too haha. Overrated clap clap clap clap overrated...

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2011_08_30_tormlb_balmlb_1&mode=box&c_id=tor

I went to that one, not to get off topic. Absolutely amazing game. Brent Tallet went out as a Blue Jay in miraculous fashion. I'm gonna miss Bernard Tallet. (Cito never knew his name lol). That was a fun night. As Bailey Tallet said, balls to the wall lmao.

Any support for Adam Dunn? His dWAR makes me cringe (as much as I hate that stat, but still...)

Aaaaaaaabsolutely not. But that's cause I'm a JP Ricciardi-era Jays fan.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I think that was Brian Tallet (but I see what you did there).

Dunn may get a perfect storm of support from the traditional crowd (if he clears 500 HRs, with obviously no stench of PEDs) and from the saber crowd (for his walk-rate), but unfortunately those were only 2 of his 3 true outcomes. And that last, unmentioned outcome was a huge part of his game. So, yeah, 5% maximum on his first ballot if he gets to 500.

[AC]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I think that was Brian Tallet (but I see what you did there).

Dunn may get a perfect storm of support from the traditional crowd (if he clears 500 HRs, with obviously no stench of PEDs) and from the saber crowd (for his walk-rate), but unfortunately those were only 2 of his 3 true outcomes. And that last, unmentioned outcome was a huge part of his game. So, yeah, 5% maximum on his first ballot if he gets to 500.

Yeah, Brian Tallet was sure something. Barry Tallet was a real special pitcher. My god, Cito Gaston was a horrible manager lol.

He's just not good enough. If he still played the OF, maybe, but no.

[55]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Boog Powell - No.

Adam Dunn - Hell no.

[G3no_11]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I did a search and didn't really come up with anything, but..

What do you guys think about Lance Berkman?

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I did a search and didn't really come up with anything, but..

What do you guys think about Lance Berkman?

Pretty much in the same boat as guys like John Olerud, Kenny Lofton, Alan Trammell, etc.

I'm not sure if he's a Hall of Famer, but he'll fall off the ballot way, way too soon regardless.

[G3no_11]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Another guy I thought of along with Berkman..

Mark Teixeira. Assuming he can get 2 or 3 more productive and healthy years.

[AC]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Berkman - He's actually a yes for me. Excellent player.

Teixeira - He's gonna need more than a few good years.

[wwharton]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Berkman - He's actually a yes for me. Excellent player.

Teixeira - He's gonna need more than a few good years.

Yeah, I'd be curious to hear the case for Teixeira bc he's about as big a no as Dunn to me.

[AC]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Yeah, I'd be curious to hear the case for Teixeira bc he's about as big a no as Dunn to me.

Oh, I wouldn't go quite that far. Tex has always been an excellent defensive first baseman and has been a bit better offensively than Dunn. They get on base exactly the same amount (.368 for both of them, cool!), but Tex strikes out less and has more gap power while walking a good amount. Tex usually wOBA's much better than Dunn, as well.

He's certainly not "just as big a no" to me, but he's a still a no. Dunn is just absolutely nowhere near close lol.

[55]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Yeah, I'd be curious to hear the case for Teixeira bc he's about as big a no as Dunn to me.

Teixeira: 40.8 WAR, .381 wOBA, 131 wRC+, 55.6 FLD.

Dunn: 23.7 WAR, .371 wOBA, 124 wRC+, -127.8 FLD.

Teixeira has been nearly twice as valuable overall in around 1500 less PA than Dunn. Dunn is also a historically terrible fielder, while Teixeira has been one of the best gloves at first base for a decade.

I'm not saying that Teixeira is a sure fire Hall of Famer, but his case is much more compelling than Dunn's.

[G3no_11]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Berkman - He's actually a yes for me. Excellent player.

You said no to Helton right? Just out of curiosity, what makes you put Berkman over Helton?

Helton: .317/.415/.539, 362 HR's, 583 2B's, 982 XBH's, 1385 RBI, 1326 BB's, 1148 SO's, 133 OPS+, 60.9 WAR

Berkman: .294/.407/.538, 366 HR's, 422 2B's, 818 XBH's, 1234 RBI, 1201 BB's, 1296 SO's, 144 OPS+, 52 WAR

[AC]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Berkman: 144 wRC+, .244 ISO, 56.1 fWAR
Helton: 132 wRC+, .222 ISO, 55.7 fWAR.

One, it would be helpful if you denoted which WAR you're using. Two, we're not gonna agree on this, because a.) Rockies and b.) We're using two different sets of statistics. But Berkman has been more valuable in two less years (and fought through more injuries) and should continue playing beyond the year. Plus, I like that Berkman can play the OF too (not well, but gives a good effort lol).

To be fair, Berkman is a just speaks in by the hair on his chin yes for me. He's not a lock or anything.

[G3no_11]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

To be fair, Berkman is a just speaks in by the hair on his chin yes for me. He's not a lock or anything.

That's fair. Not trying to start a debate, was just curious. They have actually had really similar careers IMO. Thought maybe the fact that Berkman played a decent amount of OF could be a factor.

[55]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Berkman is a no from me.