Your 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

[SPTO]

Re: Your 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

I didn't read Rany's blog entry (tho I must say he's the verbose version of Rob Neyer) but I looked at Appier's numbers. I always thought of him as a capable pitcher who did pretty well but some of the numbers there are a bit surprising. He's definitely a lot better then I remember.

[MassNole]

Re: Your 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

This was clearly a joke vote judging by MassNole's comment earlier in the thread.

That's ok. The real Hall of Fame gets those guys too. Thanks, MassNole.

Thank you. I am actually a Royals fan so it was a homer vote to see the results. That being said if Appier had been lucky enough to play for Atlanta or NYY during his career (both of whom were frequent wooers of him with KC) he would be a HOFer because his numbers would have been there. IMHO he is the best pitcher in the history of the franchise not named Zack Grienke.

[SPTO]

Re: Your 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

IMHO he is the best pitcher in the history of the franchise not named Zack Grienke.

Even better then Quisenberry? (sp) You didn't specify starter/reliever

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Your 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

I think it could be argued, outside of Blyleven (who should be in) and Alomar, this years HOF class is pretty poor considering. As far as "first timers" are concerned.

[Coug00]

Re: Your 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

I think it could be argued, outside of Blyleven (who should be in) and Alomar, this years HOF class is pretty poor considering. As far as "first timers" are concerned.

I couldn't disagree more. If people take a completely unbiased look at Larkin and Edgar, examined their numbers, they'd realize how great those two players were. These weren't just "good" players, they were great.

Even the Crime Dog is a borderline guy and probably should be in, IMO. Four legitimate HOF'ers (in an unbiased world) is a pretty good year for first-timers.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Your 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

I couldn't disagree more. If people take a completely unbiased look at Larkin and Edgar, examined their numbers, they'd realize how great those two players were. These weren't just "good" players, they were great.

Even the Crime Dog is a borderline guy and probably should be in, IMO. Four legitimate HOF'ers (in an unbiased world) is a pretty good year for first-timers.

I am not arguing their stats. Edgar is one of my favorite hitters of all time. When I played ball I used a lot of his wisdom and training. He taught me to paint numbers on the balls, have them shot out of the pitching machine, and try to read the number. Helps a lot with eye coordination and picking up the rotation.

What I am saying though, is not "first time elects" when they have another 15 years to get in. They just don't jump out enough in their era to me compared to others that have been snubbed for years, i.e. Blyleven.

[Misfit]

Re: Your 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

I couldn't disagree more. If people take a completely unbiased look at Larkin and Edgar, examined their numbers, they'd realize how great those two players were. These weren't just "good" players, they were great.

Even the Crime Dog is a borderline guy and probably should be in, IMO. Four legitimate HOF'ers (in an unbiased world) is a pretty good year for first-timers.

I always felt that Edgar and Larkin were victims of their era. If Larkin came along just a little earlier he'd be a slam dunk. He came up though when guys like ARod and Garciapara were putting up ridiculous numbers for shortstops. Combine that with the adoration showered on Ripken and the New York spotlight on Jeter and its easy to see why Larkin got lost in the mix. Edgar wasn't a big homerun hitter in a homerun era, which is why people sometimes discredited him (and playing in the Pacific Northwest didn't help). Homeruns aside, Edgar Martinez had an amazing career. I'm glad there is a five year waiting period because when he retired I wasn't sure, he didn't seem to possess that Hall of Fame "aura" or whatever, but a lot of his statistics are staggering. He's one of the best right-handed hitters of the 90's (I'd say it's a competition between him, Thomas, and Ramirez for that title and any of them are deserving of such praise) and top 10 all-time. It means nothing to me that he spent the majority of his career as a DH.

[Coug00]

Re: Your 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

They just don't jump out enough in their era to me compared to others that have been snubbed for years, i.e. Blyleven.

Makes sense.

I always felt that Edgar and Larkin were victims of their era. If Larkin came along just a little earlier he'd be a slam dunk. He came up though when guys like ARod and Garciapara were putting up ridiculous numbers for shortstops. Combine that with the adoration showered on Ripken and the New York spotlight on Jeter and its easy to see why Larkin got lost in the mix. Edgar wasn't a big homerun hitter in a homerun era, which is why people sometimes discredited him (and playing in the Pacific Northwest didn't help). Homeruns aside, Edgar Martinez had an amazing career. I'm glad there is a five year waiting period because when he retired I wasn't sure, he didn't seem to possess that Hall of Fame "aura" or whatever, but a lot of his statistics are staggering. He's one of the best right-handed hitters of the 90's (I'd say it's a competition between him, Thomas, and Ramirez for that title and any of them are deserving of such praise) and top 10 all-time.

Agreed. They don't tend to stick out because of the environment surrounding them during their playing time. IMO, if either of them played in New York or Boston, instead of two medium/small market teams, they'd both be locks for the HOF.

Edgar's other big knock is that he only played 12 seasons 100 or more games (18 total seasons). For some reason, the Mariners felt he needed to crush AAA pitching for three seasons while Jim Presley floundered with the big club. Therefore, he doesn't have the big milestone accumulation stats that some people feel are necessary for the HOF. But his rate stats put him up there with the greatest of all time. He is tied with the 39th highest OPS+ in the history of the game (tied with Berkman, McCovey, A-Rod, and Schmidt). His wOBA is top 70 of all time.

It means nothing to me that he spent the majority of his career as a DH.

Hear, hear.

Unfortunately, people forget he played 2/5 of his career at 3B and was a plus glove.

[SPTO]

Re: Your 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

I always felt that Edgar and Larkin were victims of their era. If Larkin came along just a little earlier he'd be a slam dunk. He came up though when guys like ARod and Garciapara were putting up ridiculous numbers for shortstops. Combine that with the adoration showered on Ripken and the New York spotlight on Jeter and its easy to see why Larkin got lost in the mix.

I dunno about that. If Larkin was in his prime in the '80s and early '90s he'd still be lost in the mix in a lot of ways. Ozzie Smith ate up THAT much attention as well as Ripken when he was revolutionizing the position. You have guys like Tony Fernandez who were great (I believe he was the 2nd best defensive SS of the era) but their accomplishments are diminished because of the era they played in.

[Misfit]

Re: Your 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

Well, the results of the official Hall of Fame voting will take place tomorrow. If only OS were allowed to vote the only induction this year would be Roberto Alomar, who collected 41 of a possible 54 votes which just gets him past the 75% necessary for enshrinement. The next closest was Barry Larkin who got just over 70% of the votes (38 total) with Blyleven and Martinez both getting over 50% but falling well short of the required 75%. Honestly, I expected OS to "vote in" more than the actual voting committee (which is still possible, though I don't think likely) but apparently posters here have much higher standards or are more susceptible to bias. It also illustrates just how hard it is to convince 3 out of every 4 people that someone is a Hall of Famer.

[CMH]

Re: Your 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

Well, the results of the official Hall of Fame voting will take place tomorrow. If only OS were allowed to vote the only induction this year would be Roberto Alomar, who collected 41 of a possible 54 votes which just gets him past the 75% necessary for enshrinement. The next closest was Barry Larkin who got just over 70% of the votes (38 total) with Blyleven and Martinez both getting over 50% but falling well short of the required 75%. Honestly, I expected OS to "vote in" more than the actual voting committee (which is still possible, though I don't think likely) but apparently posters here have much higher standards or are more susceptible to bias. It also illustrates just how hard it is to convince 3 out of every 4 people that someone is a Hall of Famer.

Yea, I'll say it again: I'm shocked with the results here. OS only voted in one guy? I would have never guessed.

If anything, I would have thought OS would vote in a bunch of guys that might not belong.

[MassNole]

Re: Your 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

Even better then Quisenberry? (sp) You didn't specify starter/reliever

Actually if we are looking at Royals closers, I'd take Jeff Montgomery over the Quiz. The Royals sucked when he was the closer so he doesn't get the love that Quiz got when he closed for the great Royals teams.

My all time KC rotation would be....
SP1 - Zach Greinke
SP2 - Kevin Appier
SP3 - Bret Saberhagen (2 time Cy Young winner)
SP4 - Dennis Leonard
SP5 - David Cone (Though may have been #1 if he hadn't been traded for C Ed Hearn early in his career)

Bullpen
CL - Jeff Montgomery
S/U - The Quiz

Hell might as well finish off the lineup too while I post.

C - John Wathan (C who could get 20 SB's a year!)
1B - Steve Balboni
2B - Frank White (Who should be in the HOF for his defensive prowess)
3B - George Brett (GOAT)
SS - Greg Gagne (I know I am forgetting a better one!)
OF - Bo Jackson
OF - Carlos Beltran
OF - Willie Wilson
DH - Mike Sweeney/Kevin Seitzer

[SPTO]

Re: Your 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

Pretty nice list there. I didn't know Gagne played for KC. I associate him with the Twins.

Oh and to keep this somewhat on topic I hope in Feb when they announce the Ford C. Frick winner that Tom Cheek gets the nod. The man has been gone a long time but the love and affection Jays fans have for him is still alive and well.

[MassNole]

Re: Your 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

He played the latter part of his career in KC as did other Twins star Gary Gaetti, following in the legacy of Harmon Killebrew I guess.

Anyways the SS I couldn't remember was Kurt Stillwell.

[yankeesgiants]

Re: Your 2010 Hall of Fame Ballot

Alomar is the only lock. There is a bunch of maybe's though.