The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

[BatsareBugs]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

The three prospects the Red Sox gave up instantly became 3 of the Padres' top five prospects in their farm system after the trade. Maybe that doesn't blow you away but it's definitely not crap.

That discredits our farm system and really doesn't help the argument.

Spoiler

I kid.

Casey Kelly probably bumps Simon Castro for the top prospect spot of the Padres. Anthony Rizzo is probably the third best with a toss-up between Jaff Decker, Donovan Tate, Reymond Fuentes, and Matt Lollis.

[Reaman]

Re: Welcome to Boston, Adrian...

Glad to see Gonzalez out the West.

Not glad to see Gonzalez coming to the East.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Do you know what other teams were offering?

You have to remember that the Padres and everyone else in baseball knew that their was no possible way they were going to resign Adrian. It's not like they had a lot of leverage in the negotiation of this deal. And it's not like the Red Sox gave up scrubs. They gave up 2 of their top 5 and 3 of their top 10 prospects.

And just to be clear - I'm not mad the the Padres didn't accept the White Sox offer at all. I like Gordon Beckham and think he is going to be very solid.

I'm just saying this whole situation seems super sketchy.

Well, it was reported the White Sox were offering Gordon Beckham, plus prospects.

I'm pretty sure even if the Padres didn't have much leverage, that maybe they could've gotten a better deal during the Winter Meetings. Perhaps Hoyer didn't want to get too greedy like Towers did with Peavy, when both the Braves and Cubs backed out. Towers ended up having to settle for again two of the White Sox top 3 prospects according to BA. Only Richard and Russell have amounted to something and Poreda has been a disappointment.

I'm really interested in who the PTBNL will be. Most likely it'll be a player everyone forgets in a month, but we'll see.

[CWood2]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Was trying to avoid going here, but with all the baseball economic posts ...

The Sox have a GREAT farm system. Pap, Lester, Clay, Youk, Pedroia, Bard, Ellsbury. All products of the system.

And when a major need arises (corner infield, middle of the lineup hitter), they have the depth and talent to put a package together. They've still got a lot of great players, and 5 top picks next year to restock the system. And if they draft as well as they have of late, they'll either get a few more economic starters, or tradeable talent.

If you don't have a high payroll, that further emphasizes the need to draft well and make smart free agent acquisitions. I sympathize for Padre fans that lost a great player. But if they weren't drafting guys like Matt Bush, they'd be in a little bit better of a position. See the Rays of last year, or how San Fran and Oakland built their pitching staffs.

Now on the flip side before I take fruit to the face, our payroll can sustain AWFUL signings like Lackey, Matt Clement, Julio Lugo, Edgar Renteria, JD Drew, and many, many others. Those mistakes aside ... you still have to draft well. And luckily, the guy that got us most of our young players is your GM, San Diego.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

I'm really interested in who the PTBNL will be. Most likely it'll be a player everyone forgets in a month, but we'll see.

Yeah, the reports were it wouldn't be a significant prospect...probably more of low-mid grade prospect, so likely a forgettable guy.

As for all the talk of things seeming sketchy, I really just think it's a case of "familiarity breeds comfort." In other words, not only is there a familiarity and respect between the negotiators, but Hoyer and co. had intimate familiarity with the Red Sox prospects and could better assess who they felt was more apt to make it (doesn't mean they'll be right, obviously).

Prospects are always risky, but taking highly rated guys you know first-hand is more palatable than taking guys you only have second-hand info about. I think the main reason Hoyer ignored MLB ready guys is the fear of losing them too fast (reportedly a big reason why Ellsbury was left out of the trade in Boston's case).

As for the desire to get it done, Hoyer was always (as I recall) a big fan of Kelly and this is a deal they've been back and forth on for over a year. I think this simply got him what he wanted. Whether or not it pans out is, of course, another story.

Now, if they were willing to chance it a bit, the trade deadline (assuming AG plays to his expected level) would likely have given them a bit more leverage. The obvious risk is, they could have ended up with nothing. I really don't think waiting any length of time prior to the season would have helped them though.

[lonewolf371]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Do you know what other teams were offering?

You have to remember that the Padres and everyone else in baseball knew that their was no possible way they were going to resign Adrian. It's not like they had a lot of leverage in the negotiation of this deal. And it's not like the Red Sox gave up scrubs. They gave up 2 of their top 5 and 3 of their top 10 prospects.

Hey man that's not quoting me!

[Dispatch]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Hey man that's not quoting me!

Haha my bad man, I fixed it. Sorry about that...

[bkrich83]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Was trying to avoid going here, but with all the baseball economic posts ...

The Sox have a GREAT farm system. Pap, Lester, Clay, Youk, Pedroia, Bard, Ellsbury. All products of the system.

And when a major need arises (corner infield, middle of the lineup hitter), they have the depth and talent to put a package together. They've still got a lot of great players, and 5 top picks next year to restock the system. And if they draft as well as they have of late, they'll either get a few more economic starters, or tradeable talent.

If you don't have a high payroll, that further emphasizes the need to draft well and make smart free agent acquisitions. I sympathize for Padre fans that lost a great player. But if they weren't drafting guys like Matt Bush, they'd be in a little bit better of a position. See the Rays of last year, or how San Fran and Oakland built their pitching staffs.

Now on the flip side before I take fruit to the face, our payroll can sustain AWFUL signings like Lackey, Matt Clement, Julio Lugo, Edgar Renteria, JD Drew, and many, many others. Those mistakes aside ... you still have to draft well. And luckily, the guy that got us most of our young players is your GM, San Diego.

What good is a great farm system if you can keep them after you develop them. Drafting well is obviously important. But that doesn't make it any less disheartening when that player has to go because your team can't or won't be able to compete financially for their services when they hitbtheir prime.

At this point you might as well designate teams like the Padres as AAAA teams because all they are doing is developing talent for teams with no limit on their payroll.

Baseball just isn't fun anymore. And this inequity is the main reason why.

Harold Reynolds is right it is a sad day for baseball. One of many over the last several years. The Padres will not see another dime from me. Why would I give them any of my hard earned money?

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Harold Reynolds is not right ... well not in this instance... he had plenty of opportunity to say this the past three years or more, why now?

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2041912075

[bkrich83]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Harold Reynolds is not right ... well not in this instance... he had plenty of opportunity to say this the past three years or more, why now?

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2041912075

Don't know don't care. He's on the money though, it is a sad day. When a team HAS to trade a local kid, who's a fan favorite on top of being the best player on the team not because they want to or because it's a good move but because they have to based on the almighty dollar, that is indeed a sad day.

But hey at least the Red Sox fans are happy right? That makes it a good thing apparently.

[Kearnzo]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

Don't know don't care. He's on the money though, it is a sad day. When a team HAS to trade a local kid, who's a fan favorite on top of being the best player on the team not because they want to or because it's a good move but because they have to based on the almighty dollar, that is indeed a sad day.

But hey at least the Red Sox fans are happy right? That makes it a good thing apparently.

Holy crap man. If it bothers you so much, and has for so long, why do you still watch? I understand being upset, but is anyone in here claiming that it's ok just because Sox fans are happy?

[JBH3]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

So what kind of year is AGon poised to have now...away from 82 @ Petco?

[lonewolf371]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

What good is a great farm system if you can keep them after you develop them. Drafting well is obviously important. But that doesn't make it any less disheartening when that player has to go because your team can't or won't be able to compete financially for their services when they hitbtheir prime.

At this point you might as well designate teams like the Padres as AAAA teams because all they are doing is developing talent for teams with no limit on their payroll.

Baseball just isn't fun anymore. And this inequity is the main reason why.

Harold Reynolds is right it is a sad day for baseball. One of many over the last several years. The Padres will not see another dime from me. Why would I give them any of my hard earned money?

Goodness man it's just a game. You'll be back later; you care too much.

As for farm systems, that's the great thing about arbitration. These players usually have half of their best years with whatever team brings them up, sometimes including their best years. A lot of times when they leave for NY or Boston they flop in a few years because they sign in their 30s. You need to have a good farm system and you need your best players to hit the bigs at the same time. That's essentially what the Reds have done, and most of the Reds' star players are locked up for a few more years.

Of course, the Reds don't have a $40 million payroll.

[Pezell04x]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

And just to be clear - I'm not mad the the Padres didn't accept the White Sox offer at all. I like Gordon Beckham and think he is going to be very solid.

I'm just saying this whole situation seems super sketchy.

right. the #1 and #3 overall prospects for the Red Sox are super sketchy. If they offered 3 no name scrubs then I'd agree with you, but not highly touted prospects.

[Matt_350z]

Re: The Adrian Gonzalez Saga

As a Red Sox fan, I couldn't be happier. I have waited for yesterday ever since it became known the Sox had their eye on him a season or two ago.

However, this is just yet another example as to how the MLB is flawed in many ways.

The Padres had a great season last year, and should be poised to add quality big league talent to make another run at it. Instead, they have to trade the face of their franchise away to a big market team.

The business side of baseball is awful. Its unfornuate that a set number of teams will almost always wallow in the cellar, be average year in and year out, or never really have a shot at the World Series.

Its become such a recurring cycle. Small market team drafts a stud. Player develops into a solid MLB player. PLayer plays a few seasons with small market team. Player is then traded for prospects, or lost to free agency because the team can't pay his impending contract.

It totally stinks.