MLB Off-Topic

[CBoller1331]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I don't want to drag up the whole Hader discussion again, but he addressed the media yesterday and many of his Brewer teammates showed up and stood behind him while he spoke to reporters. Just thought it was kind of cool. The world could use more people willing to show some grace and work through things instead of just pointing fingers in judgement.

[Majingir]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

TOR -10.7 K/gm (no offense to our diehard Jays fans here, but Jays fans have always struck me as uber fair weather...and the weather's been lousy)

When your team had made the playoff 0 time in a 20 year span, you're bound to have fans not bothering to show up. When they made playoffs, the demand for tickets and TV ratings were insane.


However, the increased price of tickets along with the team sucking isn't gonna attract many fans. Not to mention that there are many seats within the stadium which aren't so great. So many seats in the OF to me it feels like you're so far away from the action, and many seats in higher up rows(200 level and 100 outfield) are underneath the level above, so it feels so confined sitting there having a giant slab of concrete above you like you're sitting in an underpass. And no jumbotron to look at either, so if you can't see what happened, sitting over 400 feet away from the play, you won't ever get to see what happened, or even see little things like replays and batting orders.


If they're winning, then people show up no matter what. If they're not winning, there's not much about the team or stadium to attract fans to the game. Ballpark experience really isn't that great. TV ratings though, fans do watch regardless if they win or lose. Jays TV rating average is over 700k which I believe is around middle of the league, and this is them in bad years. Good years they'd top over 1M.

[steelerfan]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

When your team had made the playoff 0 time in a 20 year span, you're bound to have fans not bothering to show up. When they made playoffs, the demand for tickets and TV ratings were insane.


However, the increased price of tickets along with the team sucking isn't gonna attract many fans. Not to mention that there are many seats within the stadium which aren't so great. So many seats in the OF to me it feels like you're so far away from the action, and many seats in higher up rows(200 level and 100 outfield) are underneath the level above, so it feels so confined sitting there having a giant slab of concrete above you like you're sitting in an underpass. And no jumbotron to look at either, so if you can't see what happened, sitting over 400 feet away from the play, you won't ever get to see what happened, or even see little things like replays and batting orders.


If they're winning, then people show up no matter what. If they're not winning, there's not much about the team or stadium to attract fans to the game. Ballpark experience really isn't that great.

You pretty much defined "fair weather fans" here. I understand what you're saying but "the team is bad and the stadium is bad so I'm not going" is what fair weather fans do.

The thing is, there aren't alot of fan bases in baseball that aren't fair weather (Cubs being the most obvious). Not many MLB franchises are going to be a draw when the team is losing.

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

You pretty much defined "fair weather fans" here. I understand what you're saying but "the team is bad and the stadium is bad so I'm not going" is what fair weather fans do.

The thing is, there aren't alot of fan bases in baseball that aren't fair weather (Cubs being the most obvious). Not many MLB franchises are going to be a draw when the team is losing.

There aren't a lot of sports fan bases across the board that aren't fair weather.

[Majingir]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

You pretty much defined "fair weather fans" here. I understand what you're saying but "the team is bad and the stadium is bad so I'm not going" is what fair weather fans do.

The thing is, there aren't alot of fan bases in baseball that aren't fair weather (Cubs being the most obvious). Not many MLB franchises are going to be a draw when the team is losing.

I don't think it's so much about being fairweather fans, it's just that we notice it more in baseball. I think in baseball for all cities, even ones with NBA/NHL teams who can draw good numbers regardless of the type of season, we just notice it more because their capacity is 35,000-50,000. Most baseball attendances even for teams that suck are still higher than sold out NBA/NHL arenas. If NBA or NHL teams played in a building with over 35,000 seats, I'm sure we would see many empty seats, especially for those who are losing.



To me that doesn't mean fairweather fans. Although with such increased ticket prices all around sports, people can't afford to be going to games so regularly. Who wants to spend their hard earned and limited money going to watch a team that sucks? Doesn't mean you won't be tuning in on TV or that you're a fairweather fan either.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

If anyone wanted more evidence that Rob Manfred is a clueless empty suit about this Mike Trout stuff...

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/24154212/social-media-shows-mike-trout-everything-right-baseball

Love that Mike Trout's [lack of] supporters have his back.

[SPTO]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I think there's a fair bit of fair weatherism with SOME Jays fans but while attendance was down last year it was still respectable and the Jays team that year was a much uglier product than this year where they're just blandly bad rather than anything remarkable.

That being said, I think some of it has to do with the fact that there's just NOTHING there with this ballclub. Management keeps everything so close to the vest that you don't get an idea of what they're doing if you're a casual fan. (if you're plugged in you do get a sense of what they want to do though) This market WILL be patient and support a rebuilding club if there's some sort of plan that's publicly stated. Shapiro and Atkins have kept everything so tight lipped that you have to guess at it. There's also the fact that all of their "big" moves have failed spectacularly and they keep saying "it isn't fair to our fans to rebuild." These two smarty pants have severely misunderstood the market and thus it's showing up in the attendance numbers and even in the TV numbers now.


If that makes the entire fanbase a bunch of fair weather fans than oh well, at least there's a 10K super diehard base which I and other OS Jays fans are part of.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

ESPN and other sports media influencers across the spectrum.

Nah I don't think so. People are trendy by nature. They get their cues on what to like from others. If the media they're consuming doesn't treat baseball with respect or intrigue or is totally dismissive and mocking of it, they're not going to care or care to learn about it.

That's why you have trite people who think baseball is boring. Nobody has put in the effort to explain otherwise, like why stuff is happening even when "nothing is happening."

This an excellent point. Example. I never was into college football. Then I moved to the South. College football is king here. There's so much coverage. Everybody gathers in the restaurants to watch the games. It just dominates. It's everywhere. And you can't get away from it.

So eventually. I bought into the hype. It was trendy. So eventually it caught my interest. And now I love it.

Baseball doesn't have that appeal here. The high school teams do. But not the MLB on that scale. Not even close.

The MLB does a ****ty job marketing itself period these days. But there are a myriad of reasons why the MLB doesn't have that kind of pull.

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[Sportsforever]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I never thought I'd be saying this, but I think Rob Manfred is getting a bit of a bum rap (and no, not trying to be contrarian!). I've never been a big fan of his, but this past week he spoke at the library of congress for about an hour, taking questions, etc. Listening to him, two things jumped out at me:

1) He has a real passion for baseball, for it's history, etc. It was very obvious listening to him that he's a fan and not just a suit.

2) The dude is super smart and really puts a lot of thought into things. He was asked some tough questions and his explanation for the things he has to think about, etc, were outstanding.

Now, I can't defend him on the Trout comments...I don't know if they were taken out of context, etc, but none of that makes sense to me.

Finally, for all of the naysayers in this thread complaining about baseball, the pace, or that it's dying...I'm just going to leave this right here:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-dead-ball-century-mlb-baseball-playoffs-john-thorn-mlb-historian-baseball-decline-articles/

Read it...it's tremendous.

[dubcity]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

If anyone wanted more evidence that Rob Manfred is a clueless empty suit about this Mike Trout stuff...

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/24154212/social-media-shows-mike-trout-everything-right-baseball

Love that Mike Trout's [lack of] supporters have his back.

It's great that Trout is a awesome guy in and out of the spotlight, and in particular that he does it when no one is looking, but that has zero to do with his willingness or interest in being a mainstream star.

Also, it's kind of funny that in that article they show a tweet by MLB's twitter showing Trout playing catch with a kid. I guess MLB is on team Trout after all.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

In fairness seems like most commissioners are clueless. The only one that truly seems to be in touch with things is Adam Silver.

Talking about the big three sports of course.

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[Majingir]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I think there's a fair bit of fair weatherism with SOME Jays fans but while attendance was down last year it was still respectable and the Jays team that year was a much uglier product than this year where they're just blandly bad rather than anything remarkable.

That being said, I think some of it has to do with the fact that there's just NOTHING there with this ballclub. Management keeps everything so close to the vest that you don't get an idea of what they're doing if you're a casual fan. (if you're plugged in you do get a sense of what they want to do though) This market WILL be patient and support a rebuilding club if there's some sort of plan that's publicly stated. Shapiro and Atkins have kept everything so tight lipped that you have to guess at it. There's also the fact that all of their "big" moves have failed spectacularly and they keep saying "it isn't fair to our fans to rebuild." These two smarty pants have severely misunderstood the market and thus it's showing up in the attendance numbers and even in the TV numbers now.


If that makes the entire fanbase a bunch of fair weather fans than oh well, at least there's a 10K super diehard base which I and other OS Jays fans are part of.

Jays historically have been the prime example of what not to do. In all leagues they say the worst thing a team can do is stand still. You're not getting better to contend, and not getting bad enough to get good prospects/sell off your vets. 00s Jays were famous for that. They still sucked after that big 2012 offseason, but at least they tried. And it did lead to the 15-16 ALCS.

The "Toronto fans won't accept a rebuild" is proven lies by "guys in the ivory towers". Leafs did it and if anything, fans enjoyed losing more than middling out. Especially because they knew there was a (Shana)plan.

[CBoller1331]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Watching Fox and they have their pregame set on the field at Angel Stadium so they were able to have AJ Hinch on set. Nick Swisher asked him a question about changing the culture and prefaced it by saying "As someone who wants to be like you and do what you do...." Is Swisher trying to get in the manager game? Any teams that would take a chance on him next year?

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

It's great that Trout is a awesome guy in and out of the spotlight, and in particular that he does it when no one is looking, but that has zero to do with his willingness or interest in being a mainstream star.

Also, it's kind of funny that in that article they show a tweet by MLB's twitter showing Trout playing catch with a kid. I guess MLB is on team Trout after all.

I think him constantly taking time out for autographs, pictures, souvenirs, playing catch, hospital visits etc is the definition of willingness and acceptance of his role as a big star in the game. These days, social media has everyone so twisted about what makes someone/something important or valuable. You take 1,000 social media "influencers" and "YouTube stars" and I'll take one Mike Trout. So what if the stuff that he does isn't going "viral" and setting trends on the most pretentious website du jour. I think the way people are measuring this is pretty bankrupt, cynical, and hollow.

[CBoller1331]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I think him constantly taking time out for autographs, pictures, souvenirs, playing catch, hospital visits etc is the definition of willingness and acceptance of his role as a big star in the game. These days, social media has everyone so twisted about what makes someone/something important or valuable. You take 1,000 social media "influencers" and "YouTube stars" and I'll take one Mike Trout. So what if the stuff that he does isn't going "viral" and setting trends on the most pretentious website du jour. I think the way people are measuring this is pretty bankrupt, cynical, and hollow.

I would agree. I would think playing catch with Mike Trout from the stands, or getting a pic/autograph from him, or meeting him before the game would have a much greater impact on a person than Trout following a fan on twitter, or posting a ton of instagram pics. Having a bigger internet presence seems like a stupid solution to the problem of not being recognizable....people don't always look the same in person as the do on TV or in their social media posts.