2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

[SlimKibbles]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

There are some talent evaluators who said they'd been willing to trade Latos for DeSclafani straight up. The fact they were able to get another prospect like Wallach was good. And getting Suarez and Crawford for Pasta was well done. I think the Tigers will see the post-2014 ASG Pasta more often than the pre version. There aren't any huge names involved but I think it was a good haul. It was hardly crap.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

[email protected][/email] ]

I am not an oracle. The crystal ball is in the shop. When I get it back, I'm quitting this gig and moving to Vegas, where I will bet on sports, win all my bets, make tall piles of cash and move to Bora Bora.

Until then, I will write about what we know.

OK, seamheads?

What is it about Twitter that elicits the worst in people? Is it the anonymity? Is it generational? Does everyone under a certain age feel duty-bound to be snarky and venomous?

Or is it simply a common trait among amateur, self-proclaimed baseball experts, people whose connections to the game and those within it are purely vicarious and coincidental?

Man, I got bashed yesterday, after Tweeting this:

2 starting pitchers for 4 minor leaguers equals what? Not yet a LF.

You'd have thought I praised world war or the St. Louis Cardinals.

What the hell is wrong with you people?

This segment of the baseball-interested population has rapidly become like Big Soccer Fan, in one sad respect: If you disagree with them, you are stupid. If your opinion differs from theirs, you don't know the game. It's a misplaced and undeserved elitism that deadens debate. Which is a shame, because no sport fosters debate like baseball.

So let's review what has happened with the Cincinnati Reds in the last 24 hours. Not what might happen, what we think might happen, what we hope happens. What exactly occurred.

They traded 40 percent of last year's starting rotation for four minor-league players.

Excuse me. Two guys who were in Class A last year, and two others whose major-league contributions are so slight, we have no way of knowing for certain how they will perform.

In other words, they dealt Mat Latos and Alfredo Simon for two players who definitely won't help them this year, and two others whose potential contributions are purely speculative at this point.

With me?

The expectation is, now that The Club has saved $17 million or so, that Phase 2 will involve acquiring a LF and shoring up the bullpen. Maybe they will make a big trade, perhaps even involving some of the pieces they acquired on Thursday. When/if that happens, I will comment on that. Until then, let's just say that dumping money to be able to afford Aoki or Morse doesn't exactly give me pennant fever.

Perhaps, you disagree. That's fine. In This Space, I aim for civility, not snark. The grown-ups here like it that way.

What I know today is, the Reds dealt their No. 2 starter for kids. They dealt an All-Star who won 15 games, for more kids. Latos had injury issues last year. Until then, he did not. His injury history is no worse than Cueto's. He was not resoundingly loved in the home clubhouse. So what?

Simon's loss will be felt more in the bullpen. He had a flash-in-the-pan first half last year. I wrote at the ASB they should try to move him, because his baseball card showed his good fortune wouldn't last. It didn't. Nevertheless, he was a very valuable member of a pitching staff whose bullpen now is Chappy and crossed fingers.

Did the Reds get better Thursday?

No, they did not. Not for this year they didn't. And in baseball now, This Year is all that matters. Five-year plans are history. I know a certain segment of the baseball-interested population owns a fascination for all things Prospect. That's fine. But "prospect'' is baseball-speak for "ain't done nothin' yet.''

The Reds have had lots of prospects over the years. If you've been around awhile, you might recall a few: Chad Mottola, Willie Greene, Brandon Larson, C.J. Nitkowski, Chris Gruler, Ty Howington, John Oliver, Scott Bryant, Pat Watkins, David Espinosa. Etc. Etc. Etc. First-round picks, all. Fantastic prospects.

Those who drool over the pages of Baseball America have every right to do so. I prefer knowing what I've got, not wishing/thinking/hoping on all those great prospects. Eugenio Suarez might be the next Barry Larkin. Or he might be the next Espinosa. I have no idea. And neither do you.

All I can comment on is what's in front of me. Right now, I see Looie replace Taveras with Heyward. I see the Cubs bring in a very good, proven manager, a potential Cy Young starting pitcher and a catcher who made the all star team last year. The Reds dump money, er, gather funds, and acquire four guys who might or might not help them down the road.

If some of the cash savings go toward a LF who (A) gets on base a lot (B) hits with power or (C) both, I will applaud that, same as I'm expressing skepticism now.

Are we good now?

Probably not? OK. I respect your opinion, I welcome the debate. Please attempt civility.

HustlinOwl, is that you?

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[HustlinOwl]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

HustlinOwl, is that you?

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Nope, but clearly someone else that is realistic about this organization


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[redsrule]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

http://redlegnation.com/2014/12/16/trade-target-dexter-fowler/

Good article on a guy I'd love for the Reds to get assuming the asking price isn't too steep. Would be a very good one year stop gap for Winker and he could leadoff for the Reds. Defense wouldn't be an issue with Hamilton in center either. Don't see it happening though thanks to Walt's negative relationship with the Astros GM sadly.

[HustlinOwl]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

http://redlegnation.com/2014/12/16/t...dexter-fowler/

Good article on a guy I'd love for the Reds to get assuming the asking price isn't too steep. Would be a very good one year stop gap for Winker and he could leadoff for the Reds. Defense wouldn't be an issue with Hamilton in center either. Don't see it happening though thanks to Walt's negative relationship with the Astros GM sadly.

have a feeling its going to be ex-Cardinal Colby Rasmus

[JohnDoe8865]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

have a feeling its going to be ex-Cardinal Colby Rasmus

No.... please no.

[redsrule]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

have a feeling its going to be ex-Cardinal Colby Rasmus

Better than ex Cardinal Skip Schumaker who is our current starting left fielder...

[slickdtc]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Geez has it gotten that bad? This team was such a buzzkill last year I forgot the state they're currently in. I still can't decide if we can reload on the fly or if we need to completely rebuild, but I know doing either halfass won't cut it.

[CaseIH]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Better than ex Cardinal Skip Schumaker who is our current starting left fielder...

Not sure about that, Skips a good clubhouse guy, Rasmus is a A-hole, I sure hope Walt don't sign that prick. Wont surprise me if he does, we all know how he likes ex Cards, but Larussa got rid of Rasmus because he wasa trouble maker, and his dad is also a trouble maker, so Walt might steer clear of him because of that.


I really think Aoki is who they want, because he is a solid OBP guy, and don't strike out much. Plus he wont hurt you defensively either.


I would like to see Aoki, because he can bat either leadoff or in the 2 hole, so if say Billy would struggle like he did down the stretch then we have a leadoff hitter we can switch too. I think Billy will progress though, and I kind of think he probably wore down there at the end of the season some.


Aoki also adds some more speed, so you have Billy leadoff with Aoki 2nd, we have some speed at the top to put pressure with.


Im sure Walt is trying to improve things, but it sure has been a slow go so far this offseason, all these other teams making moves to get better while all we have done is get worse with trading Latos and Simon away.


The Votto contract is coming back to bite them in the rear sooner than I thought it would, and were not even into his real expensive years yet on his deal.

[HustlinOwl]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

Padres killing the internet right now, so they can get Middlebrooks for Hanigan and yet Reds can't get any MLB ready talent for Latos or Simon???

[slickdtc]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

I don't think they wanted to get MLB talent. I'm pretty sure the line of thinking was we either get some serious talent back or we reload the farm system. Also have to think about the contracts situation, I know they couldn't take on any more money so maybe that was lining up right for them.

But that leads to... are we rebuilding? I don't think they know that answer any better then us fans. So we're stuck in between and this is probably worse then committing to either of the other extremes. Enough talent to win 75 games isn't my idea of a fun season to watch...

[jasontoddwhitt]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

The Votto contract is coming back to bite them in the rear sooner than I thought it would, and were not even into his real expensive years yet on his deal.

I keep seeing people write this and I wonder if they realize that Votto made less money last year (12M) and will make less money this year (14M) than he did in 2013 (19M once you factor in his signing bonus from his previous contract).

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

I keep seeing people write this and I wonder if they realize that Votto made less money last year (12M) and will make less money this year (14M) than he did in 2013 (19M once you factor in his signing bonus from his previous contract).

It isn't so much about the yearly salary at this point, it is the long term deal that is handcuffing the team. Hard to sign anyone that is good to anything longer than a year or two based on what the future payroll looks like between Votto, Phillips and Bailey.

The best part is, Votto's contract is just now starting. I sure hope he finds a way to become the player he was on the path to become and not what he has been lately.

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

So Cueto says to sign him before opening day or he will be a free agent at the end of the year. I am curious how this is going to play out.

If they sign him, great, except that means we literally do not have any money left for anyone for at least the next 3 years.

If they don't sign him because they can't afford him, then what made them think they could of signed him during the last trade deadline? If they knew they couldn't, why wouldn't they trade him then when his value was the highest? Or during the winter meetings?

I am of the thought that if they don't sign him then they might as well go ahead and have a fire sale, or at the least, go ahead and trade Chapman too while his stock is high and then just start over.

[redsrule]

Re: 2014 Cincinnati Reds Thread

I would look into trading Chapman definitely. Especially since they were too stupid to make him a starter years ago.

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