So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

[jenesaispas]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

ahh, the inevitable, I lost, it must be the CPU doing something weird to make me lose thread. We get this for every sports game out there.

the sarcastic skeptic. we get those in every sports game thread as well.

[blues rocker]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

The AI, however, DOES make adjustments constantly as the game goes on. So something that might be working for you in the 1st half, may not (and probably won't) give you the same success in the 2nd.

I think the part above is what tricks people into thinking there's "comeback" cheese. the CPU doesn't just suddenly become better - it adjusts to what you were doing. If you keep your strategy varied and make good decisions, you can avoid those so-called "forced" CPU comebacks.

and of course there's also that factor of good old fashioned random luck. sometimes things just don't go your way. you do everything right and still don't win - that will always be somewhat of a factor.

[Beluba]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

Lorenzo's posts have been right on point. I suggest reading them if you happened to have skipped over them. The coin flipping post in particular is a good example of what many perceive as a manufactured run when shots aren't falling in your favor but the opponent can't seem to miss. Sometimes when you find yourself with a big lead, a fair amount of luck helped you get there, and a nice string of bad luck can take it away. Throw in a handful of ill-timed bugs and you have the ingredients for a full fledged conspiracy theory.

Believe me, if there was any hint of rubber band logic in 2k, it would have been expunged long ago... if for no other reason to prevent these threads from popping up every year.


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[ForeverVersatile]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

@Beluba It's not just shots not falling it's much more than that. Players literally get dumb while this is happening. You bobble passes and rebounds or won't get any rebounds, You won't even get a foul called on the worst of animations.

[ForeverVersatile]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

@Beluba answer this question please.

Why would the game make me do a reverse dunk animation while on a fastbreak with Donatas Motiejunas right behind me?

I held RT and square which should have been a regular dunk but the game forced me into a reverse dunk which was chase down blocked.

Another question is how is Donatas Motiejunas able to keep up with Dwyane Wade on a fastbreak?

Simple the game does what it wants to when it wants to. If the Ai doesn't want you to score you won't score.

The Ai does the impossible in the game. Everyone can attest to that unless they are blind.

[Taer]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

@Beluba answer this question please.

Why would the game make me do a reverse dunk animation while on a fastbreak with Donatas Motiejunas right behind me?

I held RT and square which should have been a regular dunk but the game forced me into a reverse dunk which was chase down blocked.

Another question is how is Donatas Motiejunas able to keep up with Dwyane Wade on a fastbreak?

Simple the game does what it wants to when it wants to. If the Ai doesn't want you to score you won't score.

The Ai does the impossible in the game. Everyone can attest to that unless they are blind.

... a handful of ill-timed bugs ...

The ai does the "impossible" due to cascading bugs. It is the same as using multiple "exploitable" bugs to achieve the impossible as a player.

[ForeverVersatile]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

The ai does the "impossible" due to cascading bugs. It is the same as using multiple "exploitable" bugs to achieve the impossible as a player.

To me a bug is things like players going invisible or something that makes the game crash.

If the Ai is able to adapt to what you're doing it certainly change what you're doing to make it seem like it's adapting. Hernce why HOF is so cheesy aka hard, which was done on purpose.

Just like the video someone put on youtube of the Ai defender falling and springing back up to defend a shot.

That was not a bug, neither is the Ai being able to slide and snap into place while clearly out of position. It's doing what it's programed to do.

Let's call everything a bug or bad luck that happens in the game.

[Mets7766]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

I can honestly see both sides. I play mostly NBA Today, Human vs. CPU, All-Star-sim. I've played close games, in-between games, and absolute blowouts going both ways, so I do not believe that there is any comeback AI for either side. However, I do see some odd things happen, usually around the same time each game. Look, I certainly don't mind losing, especially if I'm taking bad shots or making risky passes. I expect to lose if I do those things. But, when I lose because Chris Paul dribbles the ball off his foot three possessions in a row, and then misses four consecutive free-throws (according to NBA 2K, the hardest shots in basketball are: the uncontested layup/dunk and the free throw) while even the slowest, most plodding CPU big man starts moving like Hakeem in his prime...yeah, that's a bit odd.

[Beluba]

So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

@Beluba answer this question please.

Why would the game make me do a reverse dunk animation while on a fastbreak with Donatas Motiejunas right behind me?

I held RT and square which should have been a regular dunk but the game forced me into a reverse dunk which was chase down blocked.

Another question is how is Donatas Motiejunas able to keep up with Dwyane Wade on a fastbreak?

Simple the game does what it wants to when it wants to. If the Ai doesn't want you to score you won't score.

The Ai does the impossible in the game. Everyone can attest to that unless they are blind.

Using the shot button, the game gave you a reverse dunk because it detected you were open and D. How's flashy dunk tendency was High enough (which would surprise me.) If you use the pro stick, this one can be avoided.

The defender popping off the floor to defend a shot is nasty and we're trying to catch all those cases.

The hard fouls not getting called is a legitimate problem. My shots Engineer discovered the issue and is working on a fix for 16.

These are all absolutely bugs, not the game cheating on purpose. If you were to graph out every bug you see against time and score, I think you'd find that they're spread evenly across the game happening to both teams. It's just really easy to recall the bugs that contribute to a run and label it part of 2k's secret comeback code.


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[The 24th Letter]

So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

Appreciate you dropping in Mike

[ForeverVersatile]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

@Beluba Thanks for the clarification, hopefully 16 has the major issues ironed out.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

I can ask similar questions

Why did A.I Steph Curry miss a wide open 3 at the end of regulation down 2?

Why did I start a game vs. the Hawks on a 24-5 and they never got the lead lower than 15?

The 'coding' should've prevented this. We can ask these questions all day....

I don't think anyone throughout this thread has denied the A.I clearly does some wonky things ....but I tell you artificial attribute raises that occur with raising the difficulty are the cause of a lot of it...it's the reason things like rebound warping happens when your clearly in better position....it happens to all of is from time to time . Definitely isn't an every game experience though.

According to what I understand from the devs, this is only true of HOF.

The difference between AS and SS is the CPU AI, and how well the CPU makes adjustments.

However, those adjustments can help CPU players get into a rhythm, which is what happens when players have repeated success, for the user or the CPU. And rhythm leads to hot streaks. And those hots streaks (for the player, not the team) give performance boosts.

So for SS, it's not that the setting automatically resets player ratings from their true ratings or attributes (as HOF does). But what happens on the court, if the user isn't competing as well against the CPU, will result in player based performance boosts when those players have success against the user.

In that way, the boost may be indirectly related to the difficulty level, but most directly related to how well the user is competing, making adjustments and limiting CPU success. In other words, any boost we see for the CPU on SS sim are on us as players, and our failures to play well.

There is no mechanic that nerfs user success other than user failure that leads to user players getting cold. But that primarily affects the player, not the team.

Player based hot and cold streaks can however, affect teammates based on the player's badges or roles. A PG who gets cold due to turnovers will make more bad passes due to getting cold. That in turn affects everyone. On the flip side, a PnR maestro who gets hot may start destroying a defense and making a rolling big look like a boss.

As for rebound warping, I think from what Beluba has been saying, that's just a bug, if by that you mean the ball or the player moving through another player to achieve what looks like a physics breaking, pre-determined dice roll result. That's like the bug of guys warping up off the floor to contest a shot.

The last thing to keep in mind is that the default SS sim setting may not be optimally tuned for sim. There are still places where, on those defaults, the CPU or the user may be too overpowered or underpowered for optimal sim. That's where slider adjustments come into effect, to better optimize the sim aspect from the defualt sim setting. Once I've done that in the past, I find those WTF bugs and animations that look imbalanced occur a lot less.

[luijo]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

I would like to thank Beluba for taking his time to answer most of our questions, specially in a thread like this, where most of us don't have a positive opinion on how certain things happen in the game.

It's really hard to find a dev that shares his opinion with the community and is willing to listen al the complains we have.

We really appreciate your work and your integration with the 2K community.

[QNo]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

I would like to thank Beluba for taking his time to answer most of our questions, specially in a thread like this, where most of us don't have a positive opinion on how certain things happen in the game.

It's really hard to find a dev that shares his opinion with the community and is willing to listen al the complains we have.

We really appreciate your work and your integration with the 2K community.

I fully agree. I fully believed in artificial momentum shifts before this thread, largely because it was the only explanation that made sense to me but also because this theory was endorsed by many 2k players. This is despite me having lots of experience with and knowledge of randomness. Now I have a better explanation and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[Sundown]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

Using the shot button, the game gave you a reverse dunk because out detected you were open and D. How's flashy dunk tendency was High enough (which would surprise me.) If you use the pro stick, this one can be avoided.

The defender popping off the floor to defend a shot is nasty and we're trying to catch all those cases.

The hard fouls not getting called is a legitimate problem. My shots Engineer discovered the issue and is working on a fix for 16.

These are all absolutely bugs, not the game cheating on purpose. If you were to graph out every bug you see against time and score, I think you'd find that they're spread evenly across the game happening to both teams. It's just really easy to recall the bugs that contribute to a run and label it part of 2k's secret comeback code.


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Speaking of foul bugs, it seems that fouls from behind when a big is at the rim and forced to miss are almost never called. It also seems that a defender falling into a shooter after being pump faked also don't register as fouls after one of the patches. I also seem to be poor at drawing a shooting foul by going back up into the faked out defender but that could just be me. It would be great if these happened to be addressed along with the hard foul problem.