Exactly. 2k is head and shoulders above the competition in terms of everything but this. The lack of attention to the simplest details is extremely frustrating only because in 2k11 they absolutely knocked it out of the park in terms of Michael Jordan and his signature style, mannerisms, animations look and play style. In 2k12 they had era specific filters for broadcasts. The black and white 60s broadcast was inspired and perfect. Even the commentary sounded era authentic and it actually resembled a television broadcast of that time period. No three point line and signature animations made it feel even more authentic. As a result it was a blast to spend hours playing. On the next generation systems the potential for even more authenticity in signature animations and even more era specific presentation and details, as well as more classic teams. However they were neglected and all but forgotten. They lost everything that made them special in the first place. Animations were removed likenesses were downgraded and classic players began to play more generically indistinguishable from their modern in game counterparts. The community responded with a thread on classic teams that could be included using existing players and some who needed to be signed. As a direct result we were given 12 new classic teams with existing players and many new ones. A lot of these players are great additions and I and I'm sure others are extremely grateful for that. However I can't help but feel a little short changed. Glaring oversights like the wrong jersey on the 2008 Celtics and the 2006 Heat, or the same player models for Dwyane Wade for all Heat teams and Tracy McGrady for both the 2000 Raptors and the 2008 Rockets. While Vince Carter gets a younger looking player model for the 2000 Raptors and Udonis Haslem for the 2006 Heat is frustrating. If you can get Carter and Haslem close to accurate why not everyone? Haven't seen the two classic LeBron player models yet but I'm still holding out some level of hope that they will be accurate. It's especially frustrating when you go through the roster and you see actual pictures of the players on these teams from the corresponding season. For example the Ratings screenshot of the 2007 Cavaliers showed an actual picture of LeBron James from the 2007 season, and the same thing for a 2006 picture of Dwyane Wade only for us to play as the 2006 Heat with a current Dwyane Wade player model. The largest appeal of these teams is playing with these players as they were at that time. A sort of "snapshot " of that team exactly as we remember them. We all loved the Jordan challenges because it gave us the ability to essentially recreate and relive what we remembered. It was like being able to control history or a playable version of what you remembered from Come Fly with me, Playground and Above and beyond, and it was the same with 2k12 on a larger scale. Now I want a accurate playable "snapshot" of LeBron James performance in Game 5 of the 2007 Eastern Conference Finals or Dwyane Wades performance in the 2006 Eastern Conference Finals and NBA Finals. All with the same level of care and detail that was given to the Jordan challenges in 2k11 and Legends Showcase in 2k12. I don't think that as a loyal 2k consumer (I've bought every single edition, from 2k to2k15) that that is too much to ask for or that outlandish a request.
Will MJ actually look like MJ this year?
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Re: Will MJ actually look like MJ this year?
Exactly. 2k is head and shoulders above the competition in terms of everything but this. The lack of attention to the simplest details is extremely frustrating only because in 2k11 they absolutely knocked it out of the park in terms of Michael Jordan and his signature style, mannerisms, animations look and play style. In 2k12 they had era specific filters for broadcasts. The black and white 60s broadcast was inspired and perfect. Even the commentary sounded era authentic and it actually resembled a television broadcast of that time period. No three point line and signature animations made it feel even more authentic. As a result it was a blast to spend hours playing. On the next generation systems the potential for even more authenticity in signature animations and even more era specific presentation and details, as well as more classic teams. However they were neglected and all but forgotten. They lost everything that made them special in the first place. Animations were removed likenesses were downgraded and classic players began to play more generically indistinguishable from their modern in game counterparts. The community responded with a thread on classic teams that could be included using existing players and some who needed to be signed. As a direct result we were given 12 new classic teams with existing players and many new ones. A lot of these players are great additions and I and I'm sure others are extremely grateful for that. However I can't help but feel a little short changed. Glaring oversights like the wrong jersey on the 2008 Celtics and the 2006 Heat, or the same player models for Dwyane Wade for all Heat teams and Tracy McGrady for both the 2000 Raptors and the 2008 Rockets. While Vince Carter gets a younger looking player model for the 2000 Raptors and Udonis Haslem for the 2006 Heat is frustrating. If you can get Carter and Haslem close to accurate why not everyone? Haven't seen the two classic LeBron player models yet but I'm still holding out some level of hope that they will be accurate. It's especially frustrating when you go through the roster and you see actual pictures of the players on these teams from the corresponding season. For example the Ratings screenshot of the 2007 Cavaliers showed an actual picture of LeBron James from the 2007 season, and the same thing for a 2006 picture of Dwyane Wade only for us to play as the 2006 Heat with a current Dwyane Wade player model. The largest appeal of these teams is playing with these players as they were at that time. A sort of "snapshot " of that team exactly as we remember them. We all loved the Jordan challenges because it gave us the ability to essentially recreate and relive what we remembered. It was like being able to control history or a playable version of what you remembered from Come Fly with me, Playground and Above and beyond, and it was the same with 2k12 on a larger scale. Now I want a accurate playable "snapshot" of LeBron James performance in Game 5 of the 2007 Eastern Conference Finals or Dwyane Wades performance in the 2006 Eastern Conference Finals and NBA Finals. All with the same level of care and detail that was given to the Jordan challenges in 2k11 and Legends Showcase in 2k12. I don't think that as a loyal 2k consumer (I've bought every single edition, from 2k to2k15) that that is too much to ask for or that outlandish a request. -
Re: Will MJ actually look like MJ this year?
The sad part is now that the community has shown is displeasure with the half assed Legends and retro teams, I'm willing to bet that 2K will make this a bullet point and listed feature priority for 2k17. And they'll give the same old "See we listen to the fans" line smh. They're definitely taking Jordan's likeness for granted. To have the ability to play 2k on next gen consoles for 3 years and to have Jordan and the legendary teams better implemented in last gen consoles is inexcusable. It seems like they forgot one of the reason's why 2k11 is revered as the best 2k's to date. It's safe to say that Jordan and the legends were after thoughts. They were probably given to the "B" team at 2k and probably outsourced to the China 2K art team lol.
I am a game developer my self so I know a bit about game and art design. I also come from the NLSC modding community. And its sad that hobbyist modders pay more attention to detail and show more passion for the game than the hired 2K art staff does. Its completely inexcusable.Last edited by jbthegreat; 09-21-2015, 08:36 AM.Comment
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Re: Will MJ actually look like MJ this year?
You would also think, with Jordan back on the cover, that they would have given him a much needed face lift. Here's to hoping. Hope we get some screen shots for legends soon.Comment
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Re: Will MJ actually look like MJ this year?
It's not a sports RPG, but it's also not a "I Love the 90's" basketball simulation.
Everyone has different interests. It’s understandable that the niche who isn’t getting the attention of the another is upset….but to disregard all the work czar and og but in the AI\gameplay….the work that that was done on MyLeague to fit the whole “All they care about is fantasy modes” argument is a bit irresponsible.
Wasn’t it Czar who pushed to have some more classic teams added after reading you guys thread last year? That was a good thread with a plan and good feedback, and that’s how you get attention.
I’m a big fan of classic\retro teams….I’m not going to freak out because MJ’s leg sleeve isn’t right, but I would also like a decent representation of the players\teams…I don’t even like the Celtics and their jersey situation drives me crazy.
All we can do right now is use all the avenues available to keep giving feedback.Comment
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Re: Will MJ actually look like MJ this year?
The sad part is now that the community has shown is displeasure with the half assed Legends and retro teams, I'm willing to bet that 2K will make this a bullet point and listed feature priority for 2k17. And they'll give the same old "See we listen to the fans" line smh. They're definitely taking Jordan's likeness for granted. To have the ability to play 2k on next gen consoles for 3 years and to have Jordan and the legendary teams better implemented in last gen consoles is inexcusable.
Being that the last time 2K used Jordan in marketing (2K11 if I recall correctly) the experience with classic teams was exceptional, this whole Jordan edition thing they are doing this year accompanied by the protracted reveal of 12 additional classic teams might have given some of us the hope, if not the impression that classics were given the TLC they've lacked since the next-gen jump. To see that this was only the case in spots and generally it's business as usual as far as our next-gen classics experience, is disappointing from my perspective.Last edited by eko718; 09-21-2015, 11:44 AM.Comment
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Re: Will MJ actually look like MJ this year?
I think it's important to remember how far we have come in the past 4 years.
In 2K11 there were only a few retro teams. And the ones picked totally revolved around Jordan Challenges. This meant NO 87 Lakers. Back then retro rosters included CAPS of over 200 players...and there was an export team feature that would glitch faces. You couldn't trade retro players to regular teams either.
In 2K12, they added a ton of new retro teams including the retro filters, and even gave the option of trading legend players. But I bet many have forgotten that the DLC that had all those Legend players designed for ONE MODE only in a street ball mode with no option to move players to regular teams. It was a glitch that was discovered and allowed us to move those players into quick play mode, and then later the mod guys and hex editing guys uploaded CFs and reditor which opened doors for creating retro rosters. It became clear later the main reason for 2K's push for the Legend teams was the lockout.
Since that time, they have offered little more in terms of classic teams. In fact, most of the legend CFs modded used were basically left on the disk from prior 2K games.
The reason I bring this up, is because in 4 years we ("us retro heads") have become pretty entitled and judgmental of the focus given to these classic teams, especially when you consider that 2K has NEVER been that focused on this aspect of the game. There has ALWAYS been aspects of these teams that roster creators have had to fix such as accessories, and adding missing players. In 2K11, if you wanted the 87 Lakers, you had to export the 91 Lakers and deal with face glitches.
So for me...I am grateful for ANY new teams slots and and ANY new players. I would absolutely buy a game dedicated to retro NBA, or even buy DLC classic teams. I could care less for fantasy modes. I just have to remind myself of where we used to be to appreciate what we got now.
There are so many posts I'm reading that sound really good 90% of the way through then they take a sudden turn toward extremism and I have to withdraw my thumbs up, haha. Yours seemed to be on point from front to back.
Stating 2K flat out doesn't care, pushing for a classics-only game, volunteering to pay more money out of pocket even though there's no suggestion of money being an issue, those aren't realistic proclamations or solutions, in my opinion.
I'm really pleased to see 12 new classic teams added. I'm extremely pleased classic teams were ever added in the first place. There was a long time there where I just didn't think classic teams would be possible in an NBA game because the procedure for classics back then was to include the correct attributes and numbers but no names or correct faces. It worked for football and hockey because players were largely hidden under helmets. For the NBA, I figured classics were impossible because generic faces would never work, so that'd mean acquiring the individual rights to all those players.
But 2K did that... and it's pretty incredible.
That said, I'll continue pushing for perfection, or something better than what we've gotten in terms of quality the past few years. Unfortunately for 2K, they showed what their classic team potential was in 2K12. We saw how great and accurate they were capable of making those teams - in terms of graphical likeness, presentation, and signature style.
As such, to not only see a lack of progression in those facets, but also a healthy dose of regression in many cases - Hakeems' sudden goggles, Bill Walton's beard, Michael Jordan's weasel face, Larry Bird's Rod Stewart, the myriad large-scale jersey mistakes (ex: not just small logo misplacements, but an entirely wrong phrase across the chest of the jersey) - can be a little bit maddening.
It's all just a weird mix of emotions. On one hand, I'm happy they're giving us the gift of new classic teams (and old classic teams). But it's kind of like someone giving me a new car but the rear passenger-side window is completely missing. I can't not be grateful for the new car, but then again, how you gonna give me a new car without a window?Comment
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Re: Will MJ actually look like MJ this year?
So many great posts summing up the whole situation for all the classic guys. I understand the focus is on the My Player mode and the current league. It's what the majority of fans want and ultimately, it IS NBA 2k16, not NBA 2kRetro.
That said, what I find off putting, is you have the new classics as a marketing tool to get us excited, you have an MJ special addition and most importantly, you have done a fantastic job with the player likenesses and signature animation 4 years ago on far inferior hardware. How and why the classic teams on the disc are not done to perfection is a mystery to me.
Sellaz brought up a great point in his earlier post. We do need to remember that the amazing roster sets we had on 2k11 and 2k12 were really the result of some very very talented community members moreso than the actual 2k development team.
Assuming we have a truly robust CAP system, we can always hope the basic player models can be edited and complimented by great custom players.
Still a major disappointment though.Comment
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Re: Will MJ actually look like MJ this year?
Not to pile on, but I was trying to research the Pistons' classic jerseys in 2K15 this morning (heard rumors the road jerseys may have been incorrect) and accidentally stumbled across this. Look what they did to my beloved Joe Dumars...
2K11:
2K15:
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Re: Will MJ actually look like MJ this year?
Very weird, it's time for 2k to start explaining what is going on with not getting the best product out there. I get that they do a lot for us, but it is THEIR choice to add classic teams. It's the next-gen so we should expect next-gen face models and not DOWNGRADES. How is it possible they get they their look right on old gen and they cannot on next-gen? It's been 2 games now...either you do it right or do not do it at all is my opinion.Comment
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Re: Will MJ actually look like MJ this year?
Wow without reading your post I would've guessed that was Tyrone Hill.Comment
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Re: Will MJ actually look like MJ this year?
What more can be said really?
We've been posting up the graphical evidence, listing our issues and gripes with player visuals/uniforms/signatures etc, now it's a matter of getting the developers and art teams to read this stuff and hopefully make a change for the better.
As I've mentioned several times before, I'm eternally grateful for 2k continually pushing the envelope every year and giving us a great game, and more than happy that they were kind enough to give us 12 additional teams, I just don't think it's much to ask for that when they give us classic teams, and 12 new ones - they at least pay as much attention to their visuals as the current day squads.-----------------------------------------
NBA 2K Retro Hoops gameplayComment
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Re: Will MJ actually look like MJ this year?
Spoiler
I've seen this thread on the first page for the last few weeks. I finally decided to go in and take a look at what all the hullabaloo was about.
I'm SO glad I did, just for this picture alone, that Joe Dumars is straight comedy man. Absolute gold.Always looking for solid CF25 Dynasty owners, follow the link to get started >> PS5 P5 Dynasty DiscordComment
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Re: Will MJ actually look like MJ this year?
If your able to edit MJ's body from current players, who will it be(w/o tattoos of course)?Comment
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