Poll: Reach in fouls rate

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  • sreckless
    Rookie
    • Mar 2012
    • 342

    #286
    Re: Poll: Reach in fouls rate

    Originally posted by sreckless
    I have to play more games but I'll speak up with my first impression since I don't expect it'll be one you hear a lot of. IMO, the adjustment was over-done and wasn't really needed in the first place.

    First, for a 48-minute game it's pretty onerous to basically not be able to hit the steal button at all. I don't use it a lot but it seems like it may as well be removed altogether if its most likely function is to produce fouls.
    I'll say in response to my own concerns that after playing a few more games post-patch, I'm not as worried about AI reach-ins as I was initially. It doesn't seem to be an issue where the CPU will foul itself out with reach-ins, which was my initial fear.

    I've also seen the steal mechanic still work a number of times (mostly with Chris Paul against me).

    Comment

    • Fly3
      Banned
      • Sep 2011
      • 1180

      #287
      Re: Poll: Reach in fouls rate

      Originally posted by Optik
      1. There are some rough estimates for on-ball steal on 82games.com. The most you can hope for is less than 1 a game.
      All we need is a link and the thread will be over.

      Comment

      • nova91
        MVP
        • Oct 2009
        • 2074

        #288
        Re: Poll: Reach in fouls rate

        Originally posted by Fly3
        All we need is a link and the thread will be over.
        No, what you need is link to the number of times an NBA player reaches per game and the number of reach in fouls per time a player reaches, THEN the thread will be over.
        Say "No" to railroaded MC modes.

        Comment

        • Bobhead
          Pro
          • Mar 2011
          • 4926

          #289
          Re: Poll: Reach in fouls rate

          What we really need is some sort of magical stat that tells us how many steal attempts happen in the course of a real life game. I bet it's a lot higher than people think.

          Comment

          • lebronjaymez
            Banned
            • Dec 2012
            • 7

            #290
            Re: Poll: Reach in fouls rate

            You're all wrong actually. Simply looking at NBA stats doesn't determine anything when it comes to this. This is not the NBA, nor will it ever be. Artificial Intelligence can never reach the dynamics of real life basketball, nor should it ever be attempted. That sucks the fun out of everything. Obviously we want Sim basketball (or at least some of us do), but this is not the answer. At all.

            It is anatomically impossible to emulate the actual NBA in a video game. Completely impossible. Don't take my word for it, ask the developers themselves. Technology is simply not that advanced yet.

            If this game was meant to be completely realistic we wouldn't see people on MyPlayer Blacktop doing these cheesy 360 dunks. And that isn't to say that I disapprove of that. Because it's a game, we shouldn't be limited to restrictions of the game, people should be able to play basketball to their fantasy.

            I'm laughing right now. If you guys want flawlessly realistic basketball, play the actual sport. Don't try to be some hardcore baller on a game where people want to not only play basketball, but a video game.

            2k needs to seriously find a way to balance out the game between casuals and sim players. If it was one way or the other the game wouldn't be nearly as fun. All of our complaining is what created the game we have today. When they gave us something good, we would complain and it would turn into something bad. And in turn into something worse and so forth. It's a perpetual cycle every year.

            The so-called sim players have gotten so bad on this forum I'm actually disliking them worse than I disliked the casuals. I think I'm going to start using the term simhead to describe these people.

            /rant

            As for the reach in foul rate, I actually liked this at first. But now I'm not fully in favor of the idea. Obviously as said before the game needed a patch to reduce the stealing amount. Now it's virtually eradicated from the game. That's just taking away another vital aspect of the game. And yes, I've observed this. Even when I try to strip people practically asleep on their controller with people like Dwight I can't get the steal. Now Centers who barely can handle the ball in real life can play point guard. It doesn't matter anymore. All because of the simheads.

            We need disparity. We need a solid, prudent implementation instead of what we have now. Either the rate needs to be toned down or they need to make it a little less black & white than "you attempt to steal, you automatically get the reach in violation."

            Again, for those saying people get on average 1 steal a game IRL, guess what? This isn't real life and never will be. PERIOD.

            All games heavily differ from the real life representation. For instance, among other things, centers like Dwight usually never inbound and handle the ball, because they know the consequence. In this game that no longer applies because the devs completely dissipated stealing.

            2k will never truly prosper until we stop complaining, and until they get some actual motivation/competition. All of these things are what yielded this game today. It's more our fault as consumers than developers. And that's quite ironic actually.

            Comment

            • IYoDa
              Pro
              • Sep 2012
              • 441

              #291
              Originally posted by lebronjaymez
              You're all wrong actually. Simply looking at NBA stats doesn't determine anything when it comes to this. This is not the NBA, nor will it ever be. Artificial Intelligence can never reach the dynamics of real life basketball, nor should it ever be attempted. That sucks the fun out of everything. Obviously we want Sim basketball (or at least some of us do), but this is not the answer. At all.

              It is anatomically impossible to emulate the actual NBA in a video game. Completely impossible. Don't take my word for it, ask the developers themselves. Technology is simply not that advanced yet.

              If this game was meant to be completely realistic we wouldn't see people on MyPlayer Blacktop doing these cheesy 360 dunks. And that isn't to say that I disapprove of that. Because it's a game, we shouldn't be limited to restrictions of the game, people should be able to play basketball to their fantasy.

              I'm laughing right now. If you guys want flawlessly realistic basketball, play the actual sport. Don't try to be some hardcore baller on a game where people want to not only play basketball, but a video game.

              2k needs to seriously find a way to balance out the game between casuals and sim players. If it was one way or the other the game wouldn't be nearly as fun. All of our complaining is what created the game we have today. When they gave us something good, we would complain and it would turn into something bad. And in turn into something worse and so forth. It's a perpetual cycle every year.

              The so-called sim players have gotten so bad on this forum I'm actually disliking them worse than I disliked the casuals. I think I'm going to start using the term simhead to describe these people.

              /rant

              As for the reach in foul rate, I actually liked this at first. But now I'm not fully in favor of the idea. Obviously as said before the game needed a patch to reduce the stealing amount. Now it's virtually eradicated from the game. That's just taking away another vital aspect of the game. And yes, I've observed this. Even when I try to strip people practically asleep on their controller with people like Dwight I can't get the steal. Now Centers who barely can handle the ball in real life can play point guard. It doesn't matter anymore. All because of the simheads.

              We need disparity. We need a solid, prudent implementation instead of what we have now. Either the rate needs to be toned down or they need to make it a little less black & white than "you attempt to steal, you automatically get the reach in violation."

              Again, for those saying people get on average 1 steal a game IRL, guess what? This isn't real life and never will be. PERIOD.

              All games heavily differ from the real life representation. For instance, among other things, centers like Dwight usually never inbound and handle the ball, because they know the consequence. In this game that no longer applies because the devs completely dissipated stealing.

              2k will never truly prosper until we stop complaining, and until they get some actual motivation/competition. All of these things are what yielded this game today. It's more our fault as consumers than developers. And that's quite ironic actually.
              Very, very, very well put.
              We live in a world with smart phones and stupid people

              Comment

              • lebronjaymez
                Banned
                • Dec 2012
                • 7

                #292
                Re: Poll: Reach in fouls rate

                P.S. Apologies for the double post, but my prior post was too large to append to. I thought it'd be better to make a separate post.

                I'm not even going to bother to vote on the poll, because it shouldn't make a difference. The poll should not determine the outcome of the future of this game. The devs need to decide that. The devs need to take matter into their own hands for once instead of catering to what everyone wants. That simply is not going to work. The devs need to do what they think is right and what they think makes a good video game. After all, they are the developers and designers.

                As it stands, it's like their remedy for the reach-in calls was somehow internally turning the reach in call frequency to 100 and steal success to 1 (I'm almost dead serious about this even though this is obviously hyperbole).

                Please 2k, do what you think is right. Do not take my word for it or the next guy. Do what's in your hands and power and create the game we know you can make.

                Comment

                • ffaacc03
                  MVP
                  • Oct 2008
                  • 3485

                  #293
                  Re: Poll: Reach in fouls rate

                  Originally posted by lebronjaymez
                  Please 2k, do what you think is right. Do not take my word for it or the next guy. Do what's in your hands and power and create the game we know you can make.
                  I agree with this ... then again, 2k devs already have ... love how the patch has made this sim videogame even more "fun" ... specially the reach in foul calls.

                  Comment

                  • Fly3
                    Banned
                    • Sep 2011
                    • 1180

                    #294
                    Re: Poll: Reach in fouls rate

                    Originally posted by lebronjaymez
                    All games heavily differ from the real life representation. For instance, among other things, centers like Dwight usually never inbound and handle the ball, because they know the consequence. In this game that no longer applies because the devs completely dissipated stealing.
                    I'd like to see anyone have any type of success against me with Dwight at PG.

                    Comment

                    • lebronjaymez
                      Banned
                      • Dec 2012
                      • 7

                      #295
                      Re: Poll: Reach in fouls rate

                      Originally posted by Fly3
                      I'd like to see anyone have any type of success against me with Dwight at PG.
                      That was only an initial example. Hence among other things. Dwight is a player who regularly gets stripped in the post due and general TO'd due to being a bad ball handler. This is a lot less likely to happen now.

                      Point is, this is a game. There are similarities, nuances, and differences. When an opportunity is present for a poor ball handler or generally bad positioning is present you should be punished for it.

                      This is the same case with blocking. People say they don't occur that often in the NBA. This is only partially true. When you block a dunk it should translate as a block, not some ball morph or cheap animation.

                      People need to remember that there is and always will be a heavy distinction between video game and reality.

                      That said, I'm glad stealing was patched. Just not this way. Frequency is too high. Like I said, some disparity would help. Either that or generally toned down.

                      I turned my sliders for reach-in frequency to 40 offline and it plays somewhat fine. Definitely a lot better than how it is out of the box/online. You still get the reach-in foul where appropriate but you're able to punish payers for flawed moves as well.

                      All in all, for 2k14 they definitely need to refine their steal/reach-in system.

                      Comment

                      • rockchisler
                        All Star
                        • Oct 2002
                        • 8290

                        #296
                        Re: Poll: Reach in fouls rate

                        Originally posted by nova91
                        No, what you need is link to the number of times an NBA player reaches per game and the number of reach in fouls per time a player reaches, THEN the thread will be over.



                        This link?
                        chuckcross.bandcamp.com

                        Follow me on www.Twitter.com/Rockchisler

                        Just type [ SPOILER ] and [ / SPOILER ], without any spaces.

                        ROOKIE KILLER

                        Comment

                        • Fly3
                          Banned
                          • Sep 2011
                          • 1180

                          #297
                          Re: Poll: Reach in fouls rate

                          Originally posted by lebronjaymez
                          That was only an initial example. Hence among other things. Dwight is a player who regularly gets stripped in the post due and general TO'd due to being a bad ball handler. This is a lot less likely to happen now.
                          Okay? It happens at a realistic rate now. You really think you can successfully run an offense with Dwight after the patch?

                          Comment

                          • lebronjaymez
                            Banned
                            • Dec 2012
                            • 7

                            #298
                            Re: Poll: Reach in fouls rate

                            Originally posted by Fly3
                            Okay? It happens at a realistic rate now. You really think you can successfully run an offense with Dwight after the patch?
                            The reach in rate in the NBA is not as excessive as it is now. This rate is far from realistic.

                            Reach in fouls are fine and dandy and all. But when it happens at this rate it obviously needs to be reduced.

                            Comment

                            • nova91
                              MVP
                              • Oct 2009
                              • 2074

                              #299
                              Re: Poll: Reach in fouls rate

                              Originally posted by rockchisler
                              Link doesn't work.
                              Say "No" to railroaded MC modes.

                              Comment

                              • Sundown
                                MVP
                                • Oct 2010
                                • 3270

                                #300
                                Re: Poll: Reach in fouls rate

                                Originally posted by lebronjaymez
                                It is anatomically impossible to emulate the actual NBA in a video game. Completely impossible. Don't take my word for it, ask the developers themselves. Technology is simply not that advanced yet. If this game was meant to be completely realistic we wouldn't see people on MyPlayer Blacktop doing these cheesy 360 dunks. And that isn't to say that I disapprove of that. Because it's a game, we shouldn't be limited to restrictions of the game, people should be able to play basketball to their fantasy.
                                And yet we're getting closer and closer. If I had my pick, I would rather a game that crudly approximates NBA stats and play in some areas than allow steal spamming that encourages both unrealistic play and unrealistic stats just because some folks consider realistic play an unobtainable goal and license to turn it into a casual game more akin to NBA Jam.

                                Why should casuals be able to "play basketball to their fantasy" at the cost of sim heads being able to play basketball to theirs?

                                2k needs to seriously find a way to balance out the game between casuals and sim players. If it was one way or the other the game wouldn't be nearly as fun.
                                Disagree. 2K needs to have separate lobbies and tweaks for sim guys and casuals. And you can always set the difficulty to "Default" or "Casual" offline. Not sure if you can in MyCareer but I think you should be able to as well. Screw trying to find some mythical balance between the two-- it doesn't exist and the two demographics want something completely different. We should just acknowledge that and stop forcing them to play together.

                                Even when I try to strip people practically asleep on their controller with people like Dwight I can't get the steal. Now Centers who barely can handle the ball in real life can play point guard. It doesn't matter anymore. All because of the simheads.

                                We need disparity. We need a solid, prudent implementation instead of what we have now. Either the rate needs to be toned down or they need to make it a little less black & white than "you attempt to steal, you automatically get the reach in violation."
                                This isn't because of the simheads. It's because of a simplistic implementation of steals. I'd rather have this than what we had before, but I do agree that there should be more "game" to it than just praying you don't get a foul called. Big men should also be forced to pick up the ball, especially in the post, so that defensive pressure actually means something without rewarding steal spammers with free steals. So in the end, I agree that I want a more realistic system for steals-- one that plays sim for the right reasons, but until we get that, I'm okay with the current compromises. As imperfect as the system is, I feel like it gets the right results if you steal and play ball the right way.

                                Anyway, are people having problems with unrealistic fouls outside of MyCareer-- in association or in Quick games?

                                Comment

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