Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

[chia51]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Also when you start editing players you will start to see how close 2k got with some of the player and how off some where. Sometime I don't need to change the shot location tendencies other than a click or two as they are pretty spot on. Doesn't happen all the time but it does happen. Which also leads me to believe that this is more of what 2k did do.

[AMB]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

I'm missing a lot of dunks and layups. BTW My sample size with the latest update is 2 1/2 games.

One game I had 3 Missed dunks in a row with Boston! It went as follows

KG -Open back door cut Basic two hand dunk
Ray -Pump fake drive 1 hand throw down
Rondo -Fast break Basic dunk

Also I'm not able to finish my drives/cuts with a layup rather its a euro, spin, or left/right hop. I am unsuccessful to finish often with Rondo, Ellis, and Rose?? If its just me I will shut up lol! I can always tweak the sliders a bit myself. Its just weird cause I have never had this much trouble finishing with these players.

LMK what you think
-Thanks

[chia51]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

I'm missing a lot of dunks and layups. BTW My sample size with the latest update is 2 1/2 games.

One game I had 3 Missed dunks in a row with Boston! It went as follows

KG -Open back door cut Basic two hand dunk
Ray -Pump fake drive 1 hand throw down
Rondo -Fast break Basic dunk

Also I'm not able to finish my drives/cuts with a layup rather its a euro, spin, or left/right hop. I am unsuccessful to finish often with Rondo, Ellis, and Rose?? If its just me I will shut up lol! I can always tweak the sliders a bit myself. Its just weird cause I have never had this much trouble finishing with these players.

LMK what you think
-Thanks

For the dunks, raise the dunk success to 47 or 48. I think its at 45 right now and might be tad bit low. Dunk in traffic I believe is at 44? 41? 42? somewhere around there right now. How is that working out for everyone?

For the layups... I think its at 51 now... not sure why you would be missing so many unless there is contact, if there is then raise the contact success slider... I think I have that at 20 right now? Try it out at 30 and see how that works for a few games. I'm still trying to figure out if the contact success slider is for all contact shots or contact (foul) shots.

I saw a statistic on how many and1's go in a game and the league average was 2.83 or so. I will see if I can find it again.

[Answer348]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

What's important about the My Player map is that it perfectly fits the NBA Hotspots map. So, then you can see how the Hoopdata numbers compare to the NBA Hotspots numbers. Here's an example:

Andrew Bynum (09-10)

NBA Hotspot:
Inside: 341-546
Close: 48-126

Hoopdata:
At Rim: 258-370
3'-9': 96-207
10'-15': 29-71

My method gets you 354-577 for Inside. Pretty close to 341-546. Your method underestimates Inside attempts by 176 (mine overestimates it by 31). Your Close method overestimates by 81 (mine underestimates it by 55).


JJ Barea (09-10)

NBA Hotspots:
Inside: 110-220
Close: 28-68

Hoopdata:
At Rim: 94-171
3'-9': 18-61
10'-15': 21-43

My method gets 112-232 for Inside (again very close to the Hotspot). For Barea, your method does better for Close (underestimating by 7 vs. underestimating by 25). However, you're giving up a lot of accuracy on Inside (underestimating by 49 vs. overestimating by 12).

The best thing I can think to do is use the aggregate data for the entire league and figure out how to best combine the ranges. So, Inside might be 100% At Rim and 50% 3'-9', while Close might be 50% 3'-9' and 100% 10'-15'. That's just hypothetically speaking, but I think it could be done without too much difficulty.

EDIT: I started looking at a way to match Hoopdata to Hotspots. Based on some early analyses (using five teams from the 09-10 season), it looks like you can most closely match Inside by doing 100% At Rim + 75% 3'-9'. Close is best matched by 25% 3'-9' + 100% 10'-15' + 10% 16'-23'. Oddly, 90% of 16'-23' very closely matches the Mid range numbers.

[AMB]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

My dunk in traffic is at 36. Is that where it should be?

edit- I had 2 and 1's in the first quarter when i changed it to 30

[chia51]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

What's important about the My Player map is that it perfectly fits the NBA Hotspots map. So, then you can see how the Hoopdata numbers compare to the NBA Hotspots numbers. Here's an example:

Andrew Bynum (09-10)

NBA Hotspot:
Inside: 341-546
Close: 48-126

Hoopdata:
At Rim: 258-370
3'-9': 96-207
10'-15': 29-71

My method gets you 354-577 for Inside. Pretty close to 341-546. Your method underestimates Inside attempts by 176 (mine overestimates it by 31). Your Close method overestimates by 81 (mine underestimates it by 55).


JJ Barea (09-10)

NBA Hotspots:
Inside: 110-220
Close: 28-68

Hoopdata:
At Rim: 94-171
3'-9': 18-61
10'-15': 21-43

My method gets 112-232 for Inside (again very close to the Hotspot). For Barea, your method does better for Close (underestimating by 7 vs. underestimating by 25). However, you're giving up a lot of accuracy on Inside (underestimating by 49 vs. overestimating by 12).

The best thing I can think to do is use the aggregate data for the entire league and figure out how to best combine the ranges. So, Inside might be 100% At Rim and 50% 3'-9', while Close might be 50% 3'-9' and 100% 10'-15'. That's just hypothetically speaking, but I think it could be done without too much difficulty.

EDIT: I started looking at a way to match Hoopdata to Hotspots. Based on some early analyses (using five teams from the 09-10 season), it looks like you can most closely match Inside by doing 100% At Rim + 75% 3'-9'. Close is best matched by 25% 3'-9' + 100% 10'-15' + 10% 16'-23'. Oddly, 90% of 16'-23' very closely matches the Mid range numbers.

Thats more like it, nice to see you break it down. I will pass this along to DC and see what he says. Again we will have to wait till after Tuesday for an answer. I like it and I will do a quick spreadsheet and see if I can manage the formula changes and see how the ratings come out. But I won't be all that available this weekend.

My dunk in traffic is at 36. Is that where it should be? edit- I had 2 and 1's in the first quarter when i changed it to 30

For the Dunk in Traffic try it at 42 and for the and1's lower it down to 23.

[AMB]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

23 is working well for me so far. Have yett to see a missed dunk (only in the 3rd)

[Crossover1]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

No problem, Like I said I hurried up and put it out there... I am still gathering all the info and will be adding to that spreadsheet. I will make a note of it on here when I add something.

We figured out that Bench needs to be 0. From DC Also for Double Teams, there is now way of statistically knowing on how much a coach double teams. Even with it at 0 you will see double teams now based off of the players defensive awareness ratings of the situation.

No wonder. I had those minute problems too. I would set AI to get 42 mpg (sometimes even a whole 48!) and he would constantly get around 38-40 instead. Same issue with Anthony Carter. He is supposed to have 24 mpg but I would be lucky to have him play less than 30 minutes. I thought the coaching staff were dedicated to him lol.

[iameich]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Thanks... sounds like a good game. As for the Chalmers miss... what kind of dunk did you do? I have noticed with some of the smaller guards that I have been accidentally doing either a power dunk or fancy dunk and missing on fastbreaks as well... it has taught me to just do the layup for the 2 instead of getting fancy. Also keep in mind that the dunk ratings are lower... so if you are trying (accidentally) to do something other than a straight up dunk with the lower ratings that you will see the occasional miss.

Also, you said that you didn't feel much pressure from the CPU... can you elaborate on that point? Thanks.

i was gaurding the CPU PG with as Chalmers & I went for the steal which ended up in the possesion of DWade. Chalmers had already sprinted out on the break & me as Wade just passed it to a wide open on the go Chalmers. once i got in the paint, i was still holding the turbo and the left analog stick. when i was layup distance, immedietly i pressed the right analog while holding turbo & the left analog. then Chalmers starts to gather himself. grabs ball with both hands and jumps off 1 leg. this was realistic cuz most small gaurds that dont usually dunk, attempt a 1 leg dunkk cuz its easier than jumping off 2 legs, so this i liked. then he tried to slam it in by fully extending his right arm & palming the ball. but he caught a "spasm" and missed it. i didnt mind the dunk at all nor the miss. again, it was 1 game and 1 attempt. nothing to go crazy over, but i just wanted to put that out there. ill keep my eye on this if it becomes a trend.

when i say "I didnt feel much pressure from the CPU" I mean that i basically had control throughout the entire game. I didnt feel threaten by the CPU defense or offense. Its just one game and i was at home. the Celtics did make a small late run with 3mins left in the 4th but i didnt feel any pressure. again, its just 1 game. ill keep my eye on this also if it starts to become a trend.

we are moving in the right direction. aside from the PS3 users wanting the spreadsheet, that i can do without. but i love reading this thread. and the other gamers are asking some intelligent questions and pointing out some great facts. lets keep this up as i feel we are almost where we want to be with these sliders/roster combo.

[iameich]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

For the dunks, raise the dunk success to 47 or 48. I think its at 45 right now and might be tad bit low. Dunk in traffic I believe is at 44? 41? 42? somewhere around there right now. How is that working out for everyone?

For the layups... I think its at 51 now... not sure why you would be missing so many unless there is contact, if there is then raise the contact success slider... I think I have that at 20 right now? Try it out at 30 and see how that works for a few games. I'm still trying to figure out if the contact success slider is for all contact shots or contact (foul) shots.

I saw a statistic on how many and1's go in a game and the league average was 2.83 or so. I will see if I can find it again.

the game i played (Boston @ Miami) was also good in terms of AND1s. when I or the CPU happen to be succefull at an AND1, it would be a surprise and actually felt like a bonus point instead of a trend. i had no idea which 1 was going in and which 1 wasnt untill the ball actually went through the net. i think the ammount of AND1s that were made in my game were on point. but ill keep my eye on this as it was only 1 game.

i love contact! i play with LeBron & DWade so i want the contact! i actually dont think there can be TOO MUCH CONTACT! so when i read a post from a gamer saying its too much contact inside the paint, i cant relate.

[AMB]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Not saying no to contact I don't know where you got that...
The success rate when driving to the basket finishing with Lay ups. Dunks go in easier lol

[MGK]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Have these edits been implemented into any PS3 roster yet? If so, which ones?

Thanks.

[chia51]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Dunk success needs to be at 48. Anything lower and you will start to see missed dunks a bit too often, imo and DC's.

Also Dunk in Traffic (DIT), if someone who can get on their game go in and tell me if this is DIT success or just DIT?

If its success then it needs to be around 35 or so. If its the amount of dunks in traffic then it needs to be much lower, probably somewhere around 10-15 ish.

As far as I know, there are no PS3 rosters currently with these updates yet.

@Answer348, DC saw the thread a likes what you did. But at the same time this would be a complete overhaul of all the player shot ratings, tendencies and team tendencies. Maybe one day or in the future I or someone else will implement this into the roster.

I will be moving from the UK to California in about 3 weeks or so and I will not be working on the roster from around mid-May to end of June time frame. So whatever I can get done in the next week or two will be it from me. I will attempt to get the formula changes on the spreadsheet and get them into the game as fast as I can but there are no guarantees. If I get them into the spreadsheet/game then I will put it up the info up on here and someone else can get it/the rest into the 360 version.

[chia51]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

the game i played (Boston @ Miami) was also good in terms of AND1s. when I or the CPU happen to be succefull at an AND1, it would be a surprise and actually felt like a bonus point instead of a trend. i had no idea which 1 was going in and which 1 wasnt untill the ball actually went through the net. i think the ammount of AND1s that were made in my game were on point. but ill keep my eye on this as it was only 1 game.

i love contact! i play with LeBron & DWade so i want the contact! i actually dont think there can be TOO MUCH CONTACT! so when i read a post from a gamer saying its too much contact inside the paint, i cant relate.

For me it depends on what type of contact. I personally don't want to have a contact shot animation every single time I try and do a layup. At the same time I feel that if the defender is "good" enough then he should be able to get a body on me without drawing a foul. And this is what I am trying to get out of the rosters/tendencies/sliders.

Again there should be around 2-4 and1's go in a game according to statistics.

[.hazee.]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

So in order to get the most outta these rosters/sliders, we have to control all thirty teams and set everybody's minutes?

What if i just download both, pop right into an association and get the ball rollin without doin anything.. Will I be screwed?