Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

[chia51]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

I only play association controlling all 30 teams. I'm looking at Kobe's dunk tendency in my game right now and it says 3. Now I don't know if that's what it is out of the box or if that's what the person changed it to who's roster I downloaded and based all my changes off of. (Someone posted a while back their roster that already had DC's dunk edits). Shannon Brown's is 19 BTW.

As for Melo I'll knock it back down to 23 and see what happens.

DC dunk edit were just the actual dunk packages and ratings... no tendency edits. So whoever did that roster lowered all of the dunk tendencies really low.

[driftnyc]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

DC dunk edit were just the actual dunk packages and ratings... no tendency edits. So whoever did that roster lowered all of the dunk tendencies really low.

wow, that really....sucks. For me at least. Now you can really see why I'd love those dunk tendency #'s. If you get the time, I'd really appreciate it or if you could just post or PM me the dunk tendencies of the major dunkers/stars of the league so I can at least get a scale going and take it from there. Aaaah that blows!

[chia51]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

wow, that really....sucks. For me at least. Now you can really see why I'd love those dunk tendency #'s. If you get the time, I'd really appreciate it or if you could just post or PM me the dunk tendencies of the major dunkers/stars of the league so I can at least get a scale going and take it from there. Aaaah that blows!

Here are some quick ones.

Wade 60
Bron 65
Stat 98
Melo 30
Josh Smith 75

These have only been touched on, I still need to get with DC about the dunk tendency ratings. As of right now I am pretty sure he has been just touching on players that are either way too high or too low.

Also for the PS3 guys... since I put the spreadsheet up earlier than I really wanted. There will be some players missing from the shooting tendencies and the draw/commit foul tabs. I know and as I input into the game I have been adding to the spreadsheet on my PC, when I get completely finished I will reupload the spreadsheet and that one will have ALL of the players.


Also new roster uploaded with these teams finished.

Atlanta
Boston
Charlotte
Chicago
Cleveland
Dallas
Denver
Detroit
Golden State
Houston
Indiana
LA Clipper
LA Lakers
Memphis
Miami
Milwaukee
Minnesota
New Jersey
New Orleans
New York

[driftnyc]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Here are some quick ones.

Wade 60
Bron 65
Stat 98
Melo 30
Josh Smith 75

These have only been touched on, I still need to get with DC about the dunk tendency ratings. As of right now I am pretty sure he has been just touching on players that are either way too high or too low.

Damn, unbelievably frustrating. Can't believe I didn't notice this earlier. I was wondering why it always went for a layup on alleyoops. But other than that I've never had a problem dunking, just the cpu. Looks like I've got a lot more work to do. Is there a formula and a statistical website you guys are using to come up with the rating or just going off the top of the head? Like I said if you get the time, props. Or if you and DC happen to have a conversation through email or however discussing everyone's final tendency rating, hey, feel free to forward it this way.

[AMB]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Just to clarify are these the correct setting?
I could not find a list compiled anywhere

All star
Custom
Game Speed 50
12min Quarters
Fatigue/injuries/clutch.On
Shooting Type SS
Free Throw SS
Free Throw Difficulty 75
-player speed 50(Assoc setting)
-Defensive Assist Strength 5(controller setting)

Look forward to testing! Thanks

[iameich]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Just to clarify are these the correct setting?
I could not find a list compiled anywhere

All star
Custom
Game Speed 50
12min Quarters
Fatigue/injuries/clutch.On
Shooting Type SS
Free Throw SS
Free Throw Difficulty 75
-player speed 50(Assoc setting)
-Defensive Assist Strength 5(controller setting)

Look forward to testing! Thanks

thats the way i play every game yes. but i have defensive strength on 0! not sure what that slider does. if u know, can u explain to me?

[iameich]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

just finished playing this sundays Eastern Conference 2nd round matchup between the Boston Celtics & the Miami Heat!

Celtics 86 @ Heat(me) 95

34/85 40% -FG- 37/75 49%
4/11 36% -3PT- 1/9 11%
14/20 70% -FT- 20/24 83% *my highest % so far using Shot Stick Timing & FT Diff 75.
20 -AST- 18 *1st time CPU totals more AST than me.
8 -TO- 18 *good number for human TO but too low for CPU.
15 -FLS- 13
6/37 -OFF/REB- 7/48
10 -STL- 8
1 -BLK- 7
26 -PIP- 44
20 -BNCH- 17
4 -2ndCHNC- 6
8 -FSTBRK- 10

Key Players: Miami Heat
D.Wade 39mins 30pts 8reb 3ast 2stl 2blk 10/22 FG 1/3 3PT
L.James 40mins 27pts 5reb 10ast 11/20 FG
C.Bosh 33mins 21pts 12reb 9/14 FG
U.Haslem 22mins 12pts 5reb 5/7 FG

Key Players: Boston Celtics
R.Allen 39mins 23pts 4reb 3ast 3stl 8/16 FG 3/4 3PT
P.Pierce 34mins 22pts 3ast 11/23 FG
K.Garnett 34mins 9pts 9reb 3/10 FG

Feedback: this might of been the best game I have ever played since buying NBA 2K11. when I say the best, I mean th gameplay is on another level. the shooting sliders are on point. dunking is also good. i saw a lot of variety from players like DWade, LeBron & KG. also saw occasional layups from the same stars. i did Mario Chalmers attempt a dunk but missed it. consider the fact that he was all alone on a fastbreak. 3PTers werent going down for me, maybe i was cold from behind the arc. i'll keep my eye on that next game. i did notice the CPU attacking the basket and keeping me on my toes while i was on Def. although, i didnt feel much pressure to win the game. i'll keep an eye on this too.

good work Chia. i think u are really moving in the right direction with this slider/rosters combo. looking forward to more testing...

[AMB]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

thats the way i play every game yes. but i have defensive strength on 0! not sure what that slider does. if u know, can u explain to me?

My understanding of defensive strength is that it is the amount of help the cpu has in your USER defense (the guy on D you're controlling). Like aiding in your position/ proximity to the zone or man you are covering.

*correct me if I am wrong

[ric4s]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

How do the ratings deal with home court advantage? Does the Computer/Roster compensate by increasing certain ratings for the home team globally or decreases ratings for the away team (Is this reflected in shooting success). Also, when a CPU/User player is "hot" does the Computer/Roster increase his ratings for a certain time period (How is length of time decided), or until a time-out is called. I would imagine the same principals for "cold" players.

[Answer348]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Again, I'm pretty sure your shooting ratings are NOT correct. If you compare the data (attempts and makes) from Hoopdata to that from NBA Hotspots (which corresponds to the ranges in the game), you'll see that adding both "At Rim" and "3Ft-9Ft" is about equivalent to the innermost range in the hotspots, whereas "10Ft-15Ft" is about equal to the next range, and "16Ft-23Ft" is about equal to the next range.

If you do the ratings incorrectly, you completely overrate the range of certain bigs. For example, you have Andrew Bynum with an 86 for Close. He'll be able to consistently make shots from further away than he should.

[iameich]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

My understanding of defensive strength is that it is the amount of help the cpu has in your USER defense (the guy on D you're controlling). Like aiding in your position/ proximity to the zone or man you are covering.

*correct me if I am wrong

i honestly have never paid any mind to this slider until now lol. but im going to keep it at 0 like it has always been for me.

[chia51]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

Damn, unbelievably frustrating. Can't believe I didn't notice this earlier. I was wondering why it always went for a layup on alleyoops. But other than that I've never had a problem dunking, just the cpu. Looks like I've got a lot more work to do. Is there a formula and a statistical website you guys are using to come up with the rating or just going off the top of the head? Like I said if you get the time, props. Or if you and DC happen to have a conversation through email or however discussing everyone's final tendency rating, hey, feel free to forward it this way.

Go through and just do some personal judgement. Like I said DC is away for till Tuesday so feel free to use personal judgement.

Just to clarify are these the correct setting?
I could not find a list compiled anywhere

All star
Custom
Game Speed 50
12min Quarters
Fatigue/injuries/clutch.On
Shooting Type SS
Free Throw SS
Free Throw Difficulty 75
-player speed 50(Assoc setting)
-Defensive Assist Strength 5(controller setting)

Look forward to testing! Thanks

So far yes, these are the settings that I use, but with Def. Assist to 0.

Feedback: This might of been the best game I have ever played since buying NBA 2K11. when I say the best, I mean the gameplay is on another level. the shooting sliders are on point. dunking is also good. i saw a lot of variety from players like DWade, LeBron & KG. also saw occasional layups from the same stars. i did Mario Chalmers attempt a dunk but missed it. consider the fact that he was all alone on a fast break. 3PTers weren't going down for me, maybe i was cold from behind the arc. I'll keep my eye on that next game. I did notice the CPU attacking the basket and keeping me on my toes while i was on Def. although, i didn't feel much pressure to win the game. i'll keep an eye on this too. good work Chia. i think u are really moving in the right direction with this slider/rosters combo. looking forward to more testing...

Thanks... sounds like a good game. As for the Chalmers miss... what kind of dunk did you do? I have noticed with some of the smaller guards that I have been accidentally doing either a power dunk or fancy dunk and missing on fastbreaks as well... it has taught me to just do the layup for the 2 instead of getting fancy. Also keep in mind that the dunk ratings are lower... so if you are trying (accidentally) to do something other than a straight up dunk with the lower ratings that you will see the occasional miss.

Also, you said that you didn't feel much pressure from the CPU... can you elaborate on that point? Thanks.

My understanding of defensive strength is that it is the amount of help the cpu has in your USER defense (the guy on D you're controlling). Like aiding in your position/ proximity to the zone or man you are covering. *correct me if I am wrong

This is correct.

How do the ratings deal with home court advantage? Does the Computer/Roster compensate by increasing certain ratings for the home team globally or decreases ratings for the away team (Is this reflected in shooting success). Also, when a CPU/User player is "hot" does the Computer/Roster increase his ratings for a certain time period (How is length of time decided), or until a time-out is called. I would imagine the same principals for "cold" players.

I have no idea if there is a Home Court advantage or not. Knowing 2k I am sure there is behind the scenes, and then I could only speculate at what it actually does.

Again, I'm pretty sure your shooting ratings are NOT correct. If you compare the data (attempts and makes) from Hoopdata to that from NBA Hotspots (which corresponds to the ranges in the game), you'll see that adding both "At Rim" and "3Ft-9Ft" is about equivalent to the innermost range in the hotspots, whereas "10Ft-15Ft" is about equal to the next range, and "16Ft-23Ft" is about equal to the next range.

If you do the ratings incorrectly, you completely overrate the range of certain bigs. For example, you have Andrew Bynum with an 86 for Close. He'll be able to consistently make shots from further away than he should.

At first I thought like you do here and combined the first two shot locations from hoopdata for inside, but DC showed me that 2k does it differently. He has asked them for 5 shot ratings instead of 4. Go into MyPlayer mode and do a shootaround drill and you will see what 2k uses for Close, Med, 3pt. Inside is not shown in the shootaround, but from the description it says "shots from UNDER the basket"

Also a final comment from DC before he takes off for the weekend.

I see someone asked about players that have hardly played having high ratings in certain categories. To be honest, I just went with my gut for some people because they have a very low sample size. For someone players, I had to use a past year in which they shot enough shots to garner a inside, close, and mid rating. IE, Kapono, Derek Brown, Troy Murphy.

Others I just eye balled. So use smart judgement here. If the sheet tells you that Gadzuric should have a 92 mid range, being a basketball mind should tell you that is a no no.

If someone is having an issue with a certain player not taking enough shots or taking too many shots, guess where the blame lies? The defense. This is a main reason why I am against not playing Player Lock vs the CPU. If Fisher attempts 7 3's, then MOST LIKELY the user is leaving him open after he switches from the AI. Constant switches has an impact of the shots the CPU does and doesn't take. It is as simple as that. If a player is open, he will shoot the ball. If Jason Collins gets the ball in the paint 15 times and is open those 15 times, he will shoot 15 times.

So remember, tendencies are for simmed results.
Touches are for in game.
But the defense plays a MAJOR part in all of that.

To add onto that... the tendencies still play a part in gameplay. But touches and shot tendency determine how often the player will shoot. But like DC said... if you are constantly switching that is affecting the CPU calculations. I usually don't switch on D that often, maybe once each possession.

[Answer348]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

I just tried My Player, and the zones correspond exactly with those from NBA Hotspots. So, the map looks exactly the same, but for some reason they label the innermost two ranges as Close. I would bet anything that the label for the innermost range is incorrect.

In any case, I think you achieve much better accuracy by treating the ratings differently. Bynum might make some close shots, but you don't want him making shots from almost 15ft, which is where Close extends to (as can be seen in My Player).

[chia51]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update



As you can see.. the red section is inside, the next is close, then the blue section is medium and beyond that is 3.

Hoopdata collects 5 locations.

At rim
3-9 ft (not counting at rim)
10-15 ft
16-23 ft
3pters

So with that and with 2k's four zone system something needs to be added together. Initially I thought as you did, to add (at rim and 3-9) needed to be together for inside. But after looking at 2k's zone system it doesn't quite work out too good as there are too many inbetweens in their zone locations.

In real life the paint is 8 ft wide from the center of the goal outwards. Which is pretty close to 9 ft. The free throw line is 19ft from the out of bounds line in real life, while 2k's system for close goes all the way to the ft line. So there are too many inconsistencies with the 2k zone system and real life data points.

[chia51]

Re: Dribble Move & Finish Move tendency update

I just tried My Player, and the zones correspond exactly with those from NBA Hotspots. So, the map looks exactly the same, but for some reason they label the innermost two ranges as Close. I would bet anything that the label for the innermost range is incorrect.

In any case, I think you achieve much better accuracy by treating the ratings differently. Bynum might make some close shots, but you don't want him making shots from almost 15ft, which is where Close extends to (as can be seen in My Player).

Close would extend out to 19 ft as that is how far the FT line is from the out of bounds line in real life. Granted the close range is shorter on the sides in the game but this would still lead to inconsistencies with shots from the ft line.

Either way there is going to be a smudging point as the data from hoopdata does not exactly correspond with 2k's system.



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